Hi all
I'm modeling the Tucson yard and associated suppliers/receivers in the local community. I'm doing this in N scale and according to the Book "Tucson: A railraod town" there were two turntables, but the book briefly mentions only one.
Can anyone shed some light on this? I know from reading tht the table was inplace from the 1890s till the diesel invasion.
Marv in Tucson AZ
David F. Myrick's Railroads of Arizona Vol. 1, The Southern Roads covers this area. I expect that the quote you found refers to the SP.
Page 53 of Myrick's book shows a classic 4-4-0 lettered "SPRR of Arizona" on the tender on the Tuscon turntable, which was of the "armstrong" variety back then (likely turn of the Century). The turntable appears to be of a pre-formed steel girder design, with round holes in the sides of the girders to reduce the weight.
That roundhouse and shop area was destroyed by a fire on Sept. 30, 1910. 10 locomotives were destroyed. Subsequently, a larger turntable and roundhouse were constructed just to the east of the earlier facility. Page 119 of this book shows a 2-10-2 riding the new turntable, which is powered by an overhead electrical connection. This is of a steel deck design.
Page 133 has an overhead view of the area from about 1919 that shows the area. The "old" turntable was kept it place and utilized for car repair. The turntables are located on the south side of the main, with that older turntable found near the base of Third Avenue. This was an outdoor car repair facility radiating from that older turntable. The larger "new" roundhouse covers more than a semicircle and is located further to the east - looks to be around 27 stalls.
I haven't re-read the entire text to see if there is any mention of turntables operated by any of the smaller lines that ran through town, but I expect that the quote you cited referred to the two turntables of the SP.
Hope this helps. Bill
Thank you Bill
It helps tremendously and I will look for the book you mentioned. The reference that I made is in fact an for the Southern Pacific RR. I found the aerial photo this morning in the book Tucson: A railraod Town. The book covers the SP from 1880 til the introduction of the diesel.
I'm trying to decide what time frame I wnat to make my layout in.
It seems that the two SP turntables were north/west of the current yard, just west of Park Ave., if I interpreted the map in the book right.
I wish that "Tucson was a Railroad Town" had covered the El Paso and Southwestern a bit more. I am almost certain that they had a tuntable and roundhouse at about 25th St. just east of I-10. There is a building there that looks too much like a roundhouse to not be, and in Google earth you can trace the old roadbed most of the way down to it, from their passenger station, which is now Garcia's Restaraunt. Yes! I just found it, on page 107! There was a roundhouse there, it's use was stopped sometime between 1924, when the SP bought the EP&SW and 1930.
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
ndbprr wrote:If you go on either Google Earth or Microsoft terraserver you can trace the railroad lines in Tucson and probably determine their location fairly easily even if they don't exist any more. Just follow the tracks to any yard areas and current or former engine facility locations are easy to spot in most cases.
You can see that the yard extended up into the areas where the turntables would have been, but unless I am totally lost, the actual locations have been paved over. On the other hand, the roundhouse building still exists for the EP&SW one, even though it ceased operation earlier than at least the larger SP turntable!
Thanks Jeff,
I figured that Garcia's was an old passenger station. I remember going down Congress to the Interstate and crossing over some very old railroad tracks. If the building that looks like part of a roundhouse is really a part of a roundhouse then the yard was huge! The map I found in the book doesn't give you a very good picture of it's size nor location of anything key. Also after one hundred years the place has changed a little. I imagine that the yard changed drastically after the arrival of diesel and the need to support them changed.
Marv
Garcia's was the EP&SW station from 1912 to 1924, when the SP bought them. Page 107 of Kalt's book mentions the EP&SW roundhouse at 25th Street. If you use Google earth, or the aerial image in Mapquest, you can follow the roadbed pretty clearly most of the way down to the roundhouse. I don't know where it went from there, it gets swallowed up in the I10-I19 interchange. Looking further, it looks to me like it curled to the east, and proabably ran parallel to where I10 is, and then picks up again at Alvernon and I10. I think from there to Vail was the EP&SW line, the SP line used to go though parts of what is now DM, and Rita ranch, through Esmond Station, where the wreck was in 03?, and then down to Vail.
If you look at the map with the two turntables in the book, you can see 12th and 13th streets. Then look at Google Earth, and I am pretty sure that area is the area along the tracks, just west of Park Ave.
I used the USGS National map to locate the resturant and partial round house. Using the map you can select railraod and it shows were it ran. It shows a loop that use to exist that connected the resturant and turntable.
If you go out far enough in space and using the railroad view you can see where the railroad now bends and goes to the new yard.
www.nationalmap.gov. It's pretty cool.
Jeff,
Do you know when the yard moved to it's present location?
woodstuff wrote: Jeff,Do you know when the yard moved to it's present location? Marv
There were two railroads, two yards. The SP yard was always more or less where it is now, though the turntables were just a bit north/west of the yard as it stands.
The EP&SW went south from Garcia's, and looks like it more of less followed I10 to Alvernon. I'm pretty convinced that the current mainline from there to Vail is where the EP&SW main was. The SP main left the yard, and didn't turn south down Alvernon, but cut across what is now DM. you can see bits of it on Google earth. It is pretty much parallel, somtimes under the runway. Then, it pops out the other end, and you can clearly see it until it gets innundated by Rita Ranch, and the pops out again east of Houghton. Then you can clearly see it again, all the way to where it joins the current mainline west of Vail.
Going back to Myrick's Railroads of Arizona, Vol. 1, there is some information on the El Paso & Southwestern Tucson engine facilities as well:
Page 236: "In Tuscon an 11-stall roundhouse, eighty-foot turntable, cinder pit and coal chute were constructed within a few months of the celebration." (The celebration marking the arrival of the line to Tucson was Nov. 20, 1912.)
Page 235 has a nice picture of the interior of the Tuscon roundhouse which shows the structural framing.. and EP & SW #45.
Bill
Beach Bill wrote: Going back to Myrick's Railroads of Arizona, Vol. 1, there is some information on the El Paso & Southwestern Tucson engine facilities as well:Page 236: "In Tuscon an 11-stall roundhouse, eighty-foot turntable, cinder pit and coal chute were constructed within a few months of the celebration." (The celebration marking the arrival of the line to Tucson was Nov. 20, 1912.)Page 235 has a nice picture of the interior of the Tuscon roundhouse which shows the structural framing.. and EP & SW #45.Bill
I need to find that book! I've looked unsuccessfully before, I need to look again!
THe book is at the main library on Stone. It's also in Ajo at that library.
Hi Marv,
In the '50s when I was in Tucson High, I belonged to the Southern Arizona Society of Model Engineers. Around 1957-8, we learned that the old EP&SW station was vacant, and arrangements were made for us to clean up and use the North waiting room to build our HO club layout. It lasted until after I went off to college and grad school. Then I was taken over by the restaurant.
Ron Kuykendall was a member of the club, and he built a nice HO scale model of the station, which was a feature of the layout.
As for the EP&SW roundhouse, as I remember it was used in those days by a ready-mix concrete or construction company (obviously after the tracks were removed).
Dave in Massachusetts
The old EP&SW roundhouse is still there. You can see it from the freeway easily enough on the east end of the downtown area. It's currently housing a construction supply business, though I've been told the building itself has been declared a historical structure.
The main Tucson yard will soon be taking a back seat, as UP wants to increase Southern Arizona operations, but urban encroachment has basically blocked in the yard on all sides. They have nowhere to expand within town, so they have bought a large amount of land about 40 miles west of Tucson, in a small community called Picacho. Many of the residents of Picacho resisted the UP plans, citing that a large rail yard will spoil the scenic appeal of the area. UP prevailed in the process, and there appears to be some grading work taking place already. Other than that, though, there hasn't been much progress on the yard itself.
If anyone would like some pictures of the yard here in Tucson, let me know. I live little more than a stone's throw from the south side of the yard. There is also a freight car repair facility just across 36th St. from the east end of the yard, which would make a nice feature on an operating layout.
"We do not quit playing because we grow old; we grow old because we quit playing." ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes