Let's Talk Paper

[KlickyMobster]

Hi guys!  (and girls)

 I've been giving a lot of thought lately to the industries in my industrial section.  I was thinking of including one of walther's re-runs of the George Roberts Printing Company.  I was wondering what kind of deliveries would be delivered (like boxcars with paper) and anything else I don't know about.  BTW the layout is based on a shortline in the mid 80's to early 90's.  Thanks!

 

[Canondale61]

Most of the paper shipped out of the paper mill I work at is shipped in TXR? (yellow) overhight cars. Most printers use jumbo rolls,(50+ inches in diameter and 46 inches wide). When we ship an order to companies like RR Donelly or Quebecor they will usually recieve 8 - 10 cars at a time. Most inks are shipped in 50 gallon drums. Magazines shipped out usually go on truck Hope this helps.

Kevin

[cacole]

The Angelina & Neches River railroad in Texas serves a paper mill that makes newsprint, which is shipped all over the U.S.  They have their own fleet of boxcars dedicated to newsprint delivery service.  I have never been there, but learned this from a video about shortline railroads.

I have no idea if the interiors of these boxcars have special rigging to secure the rolls of newsprint, but assume that they would.  There was an HO scale model of an A&NR newsprint boxcar marketed a couple of years ago.  It may have been an LBF product.

Here's a link to the A&NR Railroad, which shows one of their newsprint boxcars.

http://anrrr.com/

 

[KlickyMobster]

Thank you guys.  So I guess I would have deliveries of paper in boxcars and ink (??) in boxcars as well.  Since the RR is based in the NE, would a leased boxcar (railbox) work for transporting paper rolls, or would something like a high cube paper car be used (see link below).  Thanks!

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-27120

 

 

[Canondale61]

There is no special rigging in the cars the rolls are placed in the middle in a specific pattern and then large inflatable dunnage bags are placed between the walls and the rolls. Most companies are using leased cars. Most paper companies are trying to cut costs and maintaining a fleet of cars is very expensive.

Kevin

[dehusman]

Different paper mills use different cars.  Some use plain 50 ft cars with 10 ft sliding doors, others use 60 ft high cap cars with double or plug doors.  Depends on the size of the rolls, the loading pattern and the quality of the material.

Printing plants get in paper in boxcars.  The rest is determined by what they are printing.  If its newspapers, then all they will get is ink in drums.  If its something like dog food bags then they will get covered hoppers of resin for coating the paper (water proofing), drums of ink and then ship out boxcars of bags to the dog food makers.

Dave H.

[betamax]

Canadian Pacific had boxcars dedicated to hauling newsprint. They had a logo on the side with the words bluntly stating "Newsprint Service Only".

There was a box plant near where I lived, and they got boxcars of paper all the time until they shut down last year. But the finished product usually travelled by truck. There was a lot of traffic in that area at one time, with the box plant, a shake mill, and an office furniture company. Lots of track serving three industries. Even a small wye I was unaware of until looking at Google Maps.

[Dave-the-Train]

Those Walthers cars are very nice (I have the CNW cars and a few others)  They run well.

The similar LBF/E&C Shops cars come as kits and are even better... some batches had wheels that weren't round or had other "interesting" characteristics... but once replaced the cars are great... you also get some duplicate parts like brake wheels that are great for improving other stock.  I have a string of SP/CB LBF cars that look superb... can anyone explain for me what they would be doing around Chicago???

Something that surprised me / caught me out was that some paper users seem to make their own paper(s) with the result that they get all sorts of goodies delivered like woodchip cars (of woodchip would you believe?), boxcars of recycled paper and rags and tank cars of kaolin and titanium dioxide (IIRC)... maybe some other stuff too???  This has given me an excuse to run a couple of Wathers hopper bottomed woodchip cars... the LBF woodchip cars are extremely bland.

(This is all H0).

I'm not entirely sure of the correct dates for the hopper bottomed cars... 1980s I hope???

[Canondale61]

One of the most interesting companies to model would be Kodak in Rochester in the 60's,70's and early 80's (before digital cameras). They did it all they owned 2 or 3 state of the art paper machines and then converted it (cut it down) to the size they printed the photo on.

the terms printing house means just that the business only prints on paper either coated or uncoated. Quebecor and RR Donelly are the two biggest printers (there are other smaller ones) that would use large numbers of boxcars of paper. Most of the mills that I am aware of in Maine use leased boxcars and would receive there ink by boxcars.

Converters (Con Agra produces microwave popcorn) receive large lots of paper maybe two different types of paper they coat the paper print on the outside and then fill them with product before shipping them out to consumers. Some of the ones I am aware of are

Con Agra microwave popcorn

Reynolds cigerattes

Purina pet foods

and of course many others.

Kevin

[ndbprr]

What are you going to print?  Magazines, ball park score cards, newspapers, posters?  One time jobs or repetitive like company brochures?  You need paper, ink, ink solvents, machinery, knives for trimming paper. Offset or plate printing?  You will need copper plates or type.  Printing something like magazines?  In its hayday they were sent from printing plants all over the country in mail and express trains.  That car had better be spotted in the right location on the right day and be ready to roll at the right time.  People complained if their Saturday Evening Post or Life wasn't there on time.  Just because the box say's printing company doesn;t mean you have to use it as one.  Think outside the box and make it something else if you want.

[KlickyMobster]

I'm probably looking for a small printing company that would need a constant supply of paper.  Would things such as printing plates, inks, etc. be shipped by rail or truck.  Please note the line servicing the industry would be a small terminal RR that serves a powerplant and a scrap yard (and possible the printing company.  Please note:  the industry will probably be limited to a siding that can hold just about 3 boxcars.  I was actually thinking of using a Heritage Furniture background kit from walthers as the actual structure. 

 

Thanks for your help!

[ericsp]

I have seen boxcars going to a newspaper plant and a general printing plant. Both seem to receive paper in 50', excess height, plug door boxcars (similar to the Walthers 7100 series cars). The newspaper plant has a covered unloading dock. The other place appears to have tracks go into the building. A printing plant your size would probably only get paper by rail. I have my doubts that even a huge printing plant would get anything but paper and possible ink by rail, perhaps the plastics or coatings for fancy papers.

The box plants around here get paper in all kinds of boxcars; 50' and 60', non-excess height and excess height, single sliding door, double sliding doors, single plug door, double plug door, sliding/plug door combination (ABOX cars).

Were those ANR car models made by McKean? It does not look like LBF made cars similar to any of ANR's cars.

[WSOR 3801]

The printing plants I have switched get boxcars of all types.  FBOX hi-cubes, some 50', some longer.  Most any kind of 50' box, standard or excess height, plug or sliding door.  Reporting marks include MEC, GMRC, WC, IC, TR, MSDR, FBOX, RBOX, TBOX, GTRA, ASAB, BNSF, MCSA, CSXT, NS, SOU, CN, CNA, CV, CVC, CP, QGRY, LW, there might be others. 

The only ink I've seen is made/formulated in a separate plant from the printing.  They usually have tank cars there.  The other plants seem to get that in by truck.  Once in a while there is an outbound move of finished product, but very infrequent. 

[Printer]

The Detroit Free Press used to get it's ink from Flint Ink Co. in 5,000 gallon tank trucks, at the old Lafayette Street facility. So the possibility of ink being shipped in tank cars is there. I've not seen it that way but why not. My little shop only bought paper by the skid (2000 lbs) at best and ink in 5 lb. cans. I'm (was) just small peanuts.

Scoot

[shawnee]

Lots of printing plants are truck-only, in-out, particularly smaller printing establishments.  In any case, not many "small" printing plants use large web rolls, but are sheet-fed, specializing in low runs or high-quality paper runs.  Large plants use web rolls to print in hundreds of thousands or millions, either direct mail stuff or magazines or newsprint.  If they are geographically capable of locating on a rail spur, they'd use it.  Hi-Cube boxcars are the general rule for paper service, it's the prime reason for their existence, shipping large web rolls.  I see the Washington Post warehouse often, never fails to have a Hi-Cube at a de-loading station.  They receive ink by tank truck however.  I think this is a general rule, ink isn't received by rail at most plants...certainly not ones less than mega-sized plants.  It would have to be a pretty huge plant to justify a tank car for each of the 4 color process used.  I'd assume that the ink industry just wouldn't use rail since most of their customers wouldn't require it.  The printing plant i worked at in a former life was a magazine plant, pretty large with 4 four story web presses, and still they received everything by truck.  It was down the street from the Post plant, so go figure.  To each its own.

Virtually all product from a "magazine" printing plant goes out by truck, virtually none by rail since the product destination is the regional postal facility, or additional regional USPS facilities in other states...in which case there are obviously many drops, and a circuitous truck networking route is utilized.  Hence the reason why product ships out not by rail...it's in parceled lots to more than one end destination. Isn't essentially viable by rail.  They wouldn't ship by rail just cuz they're rail fans!  Though of course I would.  ha!

NB... a more interesting industry in a rail-served sense might be the paper plant itself, not the printing establishment.  Tons and a wide variety of service, both in and out.  Wood chip cars, perhaps pulpwood cars, different tanks cars for a variety of chemicals...Chlorine, Sulfur, lime slurry, kaolin slurry, potassium hydroxide...often coal hoppers for energy (though about 75% of a large/medium paper plant's energy is supplied by burning off by product)...and tons of Hi-Cube box cars with paper rolls on the way out.   

[tstage]

Okaaaaay.  But I gotta warn ya' - I'm not paper trained...

Tom 

[train18393]

The Bangor And Aroostook had lots of their boxcars in paper roll service. There were several paper mills in the state of Maine. I was stationed at Loring AFB in Limestone and there were several mills there. There were many of these boxcars in the yards in Presquei Isle that were both empty and full of the large rolls of paper. I was stationed at Loring from 1984 until it closed down. The BAR boxcars were mostly clean with little weathering on them.

A north east railroad servicing north east paper mills-just what you asked for.

Paul

Dayton and Mad River RR

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I can't imagine why anyone would want to properly model a paper mill, unless they don't want any visitors.

[doctorwayne]

ndbprr

 .....Just because the box say's printing company doesn;t mean you have to use it as one.  Think outside the box and make it something else if you want.

Good point:  Walthers makes some great structure kits, but don't be constrained by their definition of the building's end-purpose.  Also, if you're going the use the George Roberts building, the covered siding area has limited overhead clearance, so no high-cubes. I bashed two of them together to make Wilkinson-Kompass, a wholesaler of hardware and mill supplies.

 

I used the leftover parts, plus two  Walthers Stamping Plants to build Mercury Knitting Mills:

 

Wayne

 

[KlickyMobster]

Thanks guys!  I totally forgot this thread existed.  Just an update...I have acquired several roundhouse 50' highcube boxcars for paper service.  It will be a simple boxcars in, empties out service.  I'll use a background structure for the building.