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Southern Pacific Passenger Stock

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  • Member since
    April 2003
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Southern Pacific Passenger Stock
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 1, 2004 11:53 AM
Happy New Year to all readers!

I am a beginner in modelling the Southern Pacific in HO and was wondering whether anyone could give me some advice as to which of the Amercian manufacturers produces the most accurate Southern Pacific Rolling Stock in Daylight colurs for the years from the 40's, 50's & 60's.

Also could anyone pass me on advice as to what motive power was used on the various SP passenger streamliner services - both steam and diesel.

Basically I love the Daylight express coulours and would like to replicate a number of trains accuratly with both Steam and diesel motive power. For example I have a Bachmann GS4 and a pair of Proto 200 E7 & E8 loco's (with E7 B units) and would be interested in knowing who produced the most appropriate stock to run with these locomotives.

I am also thinking of getting an Athearn Genesis F7A in the SP Black Widow coulours - were these units just used on frieght services or did they do passenger work and if so what sort of passenger cars were they usually seen with?

Appologies for so many questions in such a small space, but if anyone has any ideas or information to help me out it would be greatfully received.

With kind regards from the UK.

Stephen.
  • Member since
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Posted by GDRMCo on Thursday, January 1, 2004 5:51 PM
i think they used EMD Fs and Es adn ALCo PA/PBs

ML

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 2, 2004 6:38 AM

Opinions vary. Ask the question on the SP modelers and historical society website.

Randy
  • Member since
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  • From: Shelbyville, Kentucky
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Posted by SSW9389 on Friday, January 2, 2004 10:04 AM
I have a set of Ahm/Rivarossi smooth sided passenger cars.

Black Widow F units were used in passenger service. Espee had passenger F7s and FP7s and all were delivered in the Black Widow colors.
COTTON BELT: Runs like a Blue Streak!
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Posted by ndbprr on Friday, January 2, 2004 10:05 AM
You are getting offly close to one of the sacred cows of model railroading namely color. To digress a little my wife bought a pair of earings that had a purple color. When she got them home they were two different colors. She took them back and they were the same color in the store. The lights at home made them different colors and the lights in the store didn't. So rule number one is what type of lights will they be viewed under becasue it definitley affects the color. Rule two is everybody sees color differently so what I say is right may not be for you. Rule three is there is not one color. The railroads had color samples they used when the equipment was painted but UV light, dirt and time cause it to fade and oxidize. Some people obssess about color variation. I gave that up years ago. You can find equipment on any railroad that ranges from brand new to rusted. Any of the major producers do a pretty good job on color. Just avoid the ones that everybody agrees are off. As a rule P2K paint jobs appear to be the standard today.
  • Member since
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  • From: Shelbyville, Kentucky
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Posted by SSW9389 on Friday, January 2, 2004 10:06 AM
Check out Espee@yahoogroups,com that group has over 1000 members dedicated to discussing the Southern Pacific.
COTTON BELT: Runs like a Blue Streak!
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 2, 2004 12:45 PM
Stephen--

I have good news and not-such-good news. The good news concerns the locomotives, so we'll start there. Several of the mass-produced models are appropriate for the Daylight trains:
--The streamlined GS4 steam engines pulled all of the Daylight trains in the 1930s, and continued in service until the early 1950s.
--Alco PA and PB diesels were assigned to Daylight trains, but not until the mid 1950s. They worked on both the valley route and the coast route, so they might have been found on any of the Daylight trains then running.
--EMD E7A and E7B, E9As and (the sole) E8A were assigned to Daylight trains from the time they first arrived. However, they were not assigned to the Valley route due to the steep grades found there.
--Dual service F7As (Nos. 6186-6239) and F7Bs (Nos. 8086-8139) also were assigned to Daylight trains--but for the most part these units were found in freight or secondary passenger-mail-express service. The San Joaquin Daylight was the most likely of the Daylight trains to have F or FP units assigned. The only F unit on the SP system to be painted in Daylight colors was Cotton Belt FP7 #306. All of the other F units were delivered in the Black Widow scheme, and many were repainted in the red and gray schem during or after 1958. The just-released Genesis (single unit) F7A is from this number series; the A-B sets are freight service-only units.

Now for the not-such-good news. The Daylight passenger cars were unique, and the only accurate models of them in HO have been made in brass or in the long-discontinued Limited Edition kits. The readily available and nicely painted AHM/Rivarossi cars are unlike any aof the Daylight cars.

In a pinch, however, Athearn cars should do. While most of the Daylight chair cars (or coaches) were articulated in 2-car sets, there were about a dozen Pullman-Standard single unit chair cars with fluted sides and window arrangements quite close to those of the Athearn streamlined cars. Likewise, while the Daylights were known for triple-unit articulated dining-kitchen-coffee shop cars, there were 2 single-unit dining cars and 2 single unit coffee shop-diners in Daylight service which bear a reasonable resemblance to the Athearn streamlined diner.

SP also had 2 streamlined, fluted baggage cars which were not too different in appearance from the Athearn streamlined baggage cars. Finally--in terms of streamlined cars--the Daylight parlor observation cars are pretty clopse in appearance to the Athearn streamlined diner.

All of these cars are available factory painted in Daylight colors and ready to run, and a few kits of these cars in Daylight colors may be found as well.

Heavyweight diners were regularly assigned to the San Joaquin Daylight in the late '40s and early '50s, and the Athearn standard diner--available in Daylight colors--is reasonably close in appearance to at least one of those cars. A few heavyweight baggage cars and Railway Post Office cars also were painted in Daylight colors. The Athearn standard baggage and RPO cars differ in a number of respects with to actual cars, but are as close as anything available in plastic, and painted in Daylight colors.

Model Die Casting also makes Harriman Baggage, RPO, Combine and Coach cars based on Southern Pacific prototypes. They are not currently available in Daylight colors, and only a couple of the prototype baggage and combine cars ever were painted in that scheme. An olive green Harriman baggage car might infrequently be found at the head end of a Daylight train--and might be worth considering.

Using the models listed above, one might create a plausible San Joquin Daylight from the late '40s or early '50s with this consist:

Athearn standard RPO
Athearn standard baggage car
3 Athearn streamlined coaches
Athearn standard diner
Athearn streamlined diner
2 more athearn streamlined coaches

This train might be powered by a GS4 or an F7ABB combination.

A plausbile Coast daylight from the same period might be modeled with

Athearn streamlined baggage
4 Athearn streamlined coaches
2 Athearn srtreamlined diners
Athearm streamlined coach
Athearn streamlined observation car

Appropriate locomotives would include the GS4, combinations of E7s, E8s and/or E9s in ABB or ABA formation or Alco PA/PB locos.

Hope this gives you a start. Kind regards--

John
  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: WV
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Posted by coalminer3 on Monday, January 5, 2004 11:56 AM
Southern Pacific Historical Society's publication often features stories on different SP passenger trains (with photos); also take a look at Harry Stegmeir's book on SP Passenger trains (TLC Publications). I can never spell the author's name correctly. Anyway, the book is based on SP consist documents and has a ton of information in a relatively small space. Hope this helps. BTW, even though I am WAY FAR AWAY from SP country I joined the SP Historical Society several yrs ago and have been well satisfied with their efforts.

work safe
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 2:12 PM
Thanks to everyone for all their suggestions!

One last question:

How prototypically accurate are the IHC smoothsided streamline coaches for any Daylight Operation? I have been given a couple and don't know whether to invest in a few more or sell the ones I have an purchase some Athearn cars?

Regards,

Stephen.
  • Member since
    April 2003
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 10:07 PM
Stephen--

Here are a couple of web sites you may find useful. The first is the Robert Morris Photography page--take a look at the photos under the SP freight and passenger train operations heading. By the 1960s the Daylight paint scheme was disappearing, but several Daylight-painted cars can be seen in the trains shown here.

The second site is the Challenger Imports site. They have just imported HO scale models of the Shasta Daylight. Its cars were the only SP smooth-sided streamlined cars painted in the Daylight scheme. The Shasta chair cars were unique in having high "Skyline" windows. You can see for yourself how the IHC cars measure up against highly accurate brass models. Now the URLs:

http://www.users.snowcrest.net/photobob/index.html

http://www.challengerimports.com

On the Challenger site, go to In-Stock Shasta Daylight Details.

Regards--

John

  • Member since
    April 2003
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 8, 2004 8:41 PM
The only passenger cars that are appropriate for the SP that are accurate and non-brass are Walthers 4-4-2 and 6-6-4 Pullman Standard sleepers and their newly released Pullman Standard 52 seat coach. The coach is a C&O prototype, however the SP purchased three of these cars nrs 2216-2218. these cars however were never painted in the Daylight scheme. The sleepers were painted in the Lark colors of Black, Lark Dark Gray and Lark Light Gray. The coaches were semi fluted (fluting only below the windows)silver above the belt rail and roof/ends, natural stainless steel fluting below the windows and Lark Gray on the trucks and underbody.
You can find some of the older SP brass cars for resonable amounts online.
Ch

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