Built Date span

[Grubby]

If I am modelling 1967-1969 C&O, what is the earliest "built dates" that would prototypically appear on my RR. I am especially considering boxcars from "foreign" roads along with "home" road cars. Obviously certain types of cars are disqualified due to their style/age but what is tolerable?

Comments or direction to a reference would be appreciated.

[dehusman]

No arch bar or Andrews trucks. No truss rod underframes. Life span of an underframe is 40 years so roughly anything with a new date or blt date prior to 1927 would be out. Cars not used in interchange (C&O MofW) can be older.

Dave H.

[dknelson]

I do not believe there was a firm 40 year rule in the 60s. I can tell you from personal observation that in the mid to late 1960s railfanning in my own home town of South Milwaukee WI on the C&NW that we would see boxcars at the local tannery with built dates as early as 1919. Now a boxcar in hide service is a car on its last legs for sure, but these were foreign road cars in full interchange service. I suppose at some point the frames might have been rebuilt. Obviously the old K brake system would have been replaced. The trucks might have been original. These were wood outside braced boxcars. I can describe the car. I cannot describe the smell!

I would agree however that 40 years is a good practical rule of thumb. Even today every once in a while I see a covered hopper with a built date in the late 1960s.
Back in the 1960s one still saw plenty of wood iced reefers, some 36 ft long some 40 ft. But one did NOT see the "billboard" lettering that is popular among collectors -- that was outlawed in the '30s on anti trust grounds, so no "Old Dutch Cleanser" car allowed.
There were mechanical reefers to be sure in that era. Most cars still had roof walks -- even the earliest hi cube 86 ft auto parts boxcars had roof walks and full height ladders! But by the late 60s the rules were changed on roof walks and height of ladders. The ACI labels started to appear in the late 60s. The black box of car data such as we now see in the lower right hand corner of a car side was not seen back then so when I shop for cars for my layout I use that as a good indicator of era.
A few older tank cars with frames were still seen back then but the frameless cars were more and more common. Tank cars were welded but there were some riveted cars in captive fuel service. (Non interchange that is).
Autoracks tended to be the open kind. Grain went in 40 foot boxcars with grain doors in addition to covered hoppers.
If this era interests you I suggest trying to get a copy of the 1966 Car and Locomotive Builder's Cyclopedia. There is also a 1970 edition that you could use. They are pricey but the info is really worth it. Also copies of Railway Age from that era which you sometimes see at swap meets. An equipment register is helpful too. Don't forget some of these videos that have been convereted from old color home movies. The cars you see in the trains can be as interesting as the locomotives.
Dave Nelson

[dehusman]

A Official Railway Equipment Register (ORER) would tell you which cars were there. Westerfield (the resin car co.) sells them on CD, but I'm not sure they sell that new of dates. Check e-bay, serach for ORER or Official Railway Equipment Register, you aren't looking for an Offical Railway Guide, similar name, different publication (you might want one of them but it won't help you with cars).

Dave H.

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dehusman

A Official Railway Equipment Register (ORER) would tell you which cars were there. Westerfield (the resin car co.) sells them on CD, but I'm not sure they sell that new of dates. Check e-bay, serach for ORER or Official Railway Equipment Register, you aren't looking for an Offical Railway Guide, similar name, different publication (you might want one of them but it won't help you with cars).

Dave H.

Westerfield

http://www.westerfield.biz/

[Anonymous]

These replies are good rules-of-thumb, but you really need to look for pictures of the C&O from your time period - C&O historical society, etc. In the late '60s and early '70s cars over 50 years of age were prohibited in interchange, but older cars were used in captive service. In the '70s PennCentral was running class H21 hoppers built between 1910 and 1920, equipped with Andrews trucks, and ore jennies built in the '60s with andrews trucks reclaimed from scrapped hoppers. They were kept in ore service between Cleveland and Wierton and between Philly and Baltimore. I'm sure C&O had many of its own exceptions.

If you look for Cyclopedias from the '60s or '70s, they are only going to show you what was new at that time - they were 25% information and 75% advertisement, and no one was advertising old equipment.

[cefinkjr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dknelson

...Now a boxcar in hide service is a car on its last legs for sure, ...

"Hide service" cars may not be on their last legs. They are most certainly in their last type of service as hauling raw hides absolutely ruins the car for any other service. There is no way short of burning the wooden lining of a box car to eliminate that smell.

Chuck

[Grubby]

It is very difficult to find much information especially as US prototype modelling isnt that huge in Australia. I have ordered a few C&O books by Morningsun but I imagine they are still weeks away.

Local libraries and other sources just aren't as easy to find here. I am stuck with trolling the internet sites looking for appropriate information and none of it is really that detailed.

I will join COHS when I work out how to pay internationally without a credit card [:P]

[dknelson]

It is true that car builders cyc won't show older cars but they give a good indication of what was brand new at the time, and youi can do your own look back from there.

Specific to the C&O don't forget older annual reports to stockholders. Sometimes they had photos. Also older C&O calendars had paintings of scenes that seem pretty realistic and accurate.
Of course cars in interchange won't all be C&O so in a sense you need to know about ALL railroad's freight cars
Dave Nelson

[Anonymous]

ribbed back wheels were outlawed by then also, at least in interchange service,if you're doing HO, kadee and branchline trains(web site and catologs), give you build dates and or re-paint info.also check www.rr-fallenflags.org/ ,they have every road available,look up freight cars on each,check out all of Jim Sands photos , most were taken in '67-'69',gives you lots of ideas for cars and paint/weathering ideas.

[Mark300]

If you can get OER info for the time period you researching, try this link;

http://members.tripod.com/appalachian_railroad/articleplanningfleet.html

for a description and method for determining the variety of cars; in this case hoppers but it should work for boxcars, gons and so forth.

This related address to the above;
http://members.tripod.com/appalachian_railroad/railroads.html

contains some decent C&O info for the period your interested in.

HTH

Happy Railroading

Mark

[Grubby]

wow, I have been reading this stuff for days now... it is so easy to link on the links and link on another link and forget where you even started [:P]

Thanks for the info guys