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Coming or going? Sugar hopper operations question...

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Coming or going? Sugar hopper operations question...
Posted by crossthedog on Sunday, November 20, 2022 8:48 PM

Esteemed modelers,

I couldn't control myself at the swap meet last weekend and bought a covered hopper because it had the word sugar on it, and I am planning a confectionery or chocolatier -- some sweet factory anyway.

Now that it's home, I am assailed by (mild) fears that I may have acted in haste. Well -- surely I acted in haste, but I may also have acted foolishly in haste, because there may not be a reason for this car to be spotted anywhere on my layout. Historically, does this car get filled with sugar at the Revere plant and sent out to confectioners or does Revere send this empty car out to fetch the raw materials with which to make their sugar? It matters (a little), and I'm hoping it's the former, so that I can have this handsome hauler sidle up to my chocolate factory. I am abysmally ill educated about railroad operations, and even having asked similar questions before about tank cars, it is still not intuitive to me how to interpret the information on a rail car with regard to its use by railroads and their customers.

The other question I have is... really? They're going to dump an edible product like sugar from the hopper into a pit? How would that be okay? Also, do they load the sugar via the hatches using hoses? Or narrow chutes? Would this car -- built 1957, the year of my layout -- be loaded and/or unloaded inside, out of the rain?

Finally, what are some of the uses you've made of covered hoppers of this vintage?

I would welcome a schoolin' nowabouts. Thanks in advance, guys!

-Matt

 

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

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Posted by "JaBear" on Sunday, November 20, 2022 9:42 PM
 
Well Matt, looks like you got a sweet deal! Whistling
 
Just a taster, so to speak…
 
 
 
 
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by flyboy14295 on Sunday, November 20, 2022 9:44 PM

Have a look at this site, gives a pretty good overview of these cars an some of the technology that went into them.  Answers your question about how the material was moved.  Air was pumped through the sugar, causing it to "fluidize" and be able to flow out of the hopper.

The site says that these cars would have finished sugar as their load, with a bakery as a destination.  Seems like you're in luck!

https://www.hamiltonhobbies.com/products/2600-airslide-hopper-revere-sug

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Posted by MidlandMike on Sunday, November 20, 2022 10:57 PM

crossthedog
...Historically, does this car get filled with sugar at the Revere plant and sent out to confectioners or does Revere send this empty car out to fetch the raw materials with which to make their sugar? It matters (a little), and I'm hoping it's the former, so that I can have this handsome hauler sidle up to my chocolate factory. ...

The raw materials for making sugar might be sugar beets, which historically came in in gondolas, sometimes with extended hight sides.  

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Posted by mvlandsw on Monday, November 21, 2022 12:30 AM

You don't have to have an origination or destination point for every car on your railroad. It could just be passing through or routed to an interchange track to hand off to another railroad.

Mark

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Posted by "JaBear" on Monday, November 21, 2022 12:55 AM

MidlandMike
The raw materials for making sugar might be sugar beets...

In the case of the Revere Sugar Refinery, of which there appears to have been several refinerys on the East Coast ports, it appears that their sugar was refined from raw sugar cane shipped in from, predominantly, the Caribbean Islands.
 
Cheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by dehusman on Monday, November 21, 2022 8:40 AM

Sugar plants might get cane, beets or raw sugar.

The plant in Sugarland, TX (hence the name) recieved boxcars of raw sugar from Galveston.  The sugar was loaded in bulk in the cars, a pile in each end (think realy coarse, sticky turbinado sugar) and was unloaded with bobcat front end loaders.  They used old MP 40 ft boxcars until the mid 1980's and then substituted ex-RBOX 50 ft boxcars.

A covered hopper like that would be finished sugar outbound from the refinery.  It could go to virtually any large food or beverage processing plant (sugar is in everything) or to a distributor that packages sugar for retail sales.  Eventually much of the sugar was replaced with corn syrup.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

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Posted by crossthedog on Monday, November 21, 2022 9:50 AM

Well Matt, looks like you got a sweet deal! Whistling   Just a taster, so to speak…

I saw what you did there, Bear. And thanks for the links.
flyboy14295
The site says that these cars would have finished sugar as their load, with a bakery as a destination. Seems like you're in luck!
This is wonderful news. I'm giddy. Thank you flyboy.
MidlandMike
The raw materials for making sugar might be sugar beets, which historically came in in gondolas, sometimes with extended hight sides. 
Mike, you just reminded me of a beet transfer industry I saw recently in photos of someone's layout, possibly in a thread here. Oh yes, I think the member was showing off a cool tractor in a thread about HO scale vehicles.
mvlandsw
You don't have to have an origination or destination point for every car on your railroad. It could just be passing through or routed to an interchange track to hand off to another railroad.
Right. I had that thought as my ace in the hole (whatever that means). I do have a collection of freight cars from which I like to occasionally assemble a long through freight. I pull it through the siding when I want to drop a cut of cars to be pulled into the yard and then sent up the branch. I'm lurking in wait to find a Hercules Powder Company tank, even though I have no plans for a dynamite factory. Thanks Mark.
dehusman
A covered hopper like that would be finished sugar outbound from the refinery. It could go to virtually any large food or beverage processing plant (sugar is in everything) or to a distributor that packages sugar for retail sales. 
Dave, thanks. These are some great ideas that actually expand the possibilities for this car. I might even get a few more.

Thanks all.

-Matt

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, November 21, 2022 12:20 PM

I'm uncertain about when covered hoppers came into being, but because they're among my favourites, I have quite a few, even if my layout is set in the late '30s.

The majority of mine service GERN Industries...

...although my first such cars were scratchbuilt Fowler boxcars, modified with roof hatches and longitudinal underbody hoppers, meant for delivering refined GERN-brand flux...

This one was definitely too modern for my layout...

...so I sent it to a friend in Texas.

I have quite a few of these, too, although they're also likely too modern...

I also re-worked some older Model Die Casting covered hoppers...

...by replacing the round hatch covers with square ones, and then removing all of the overly thick cast-on sill steps and grabirons, replacing them with wire...

I also removed the overly-thick running boards, and replaced them with more finely-detailed ones from Bowser....

Here's a couple photos of GERN advertising...

This covered hopper, obviously not used for flux, may be the only one on my layout that's prototypical, era-wise...

GERN Industries also uses a lot of tank cars, too, but so to not wander off-topic too far, here's just one of them...

Wayne

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Posted by crossthedog on Monday, November 21, 2022 12:39 PM

doctorwayne
because they're among my favourites, I have quite a few, even if my layout is set in the late '30s.

That's the spirit, Doc! I approve of your disregard for pesky temporal imperatives. Although, I agree that the one really modern hopper does look out of place on your pike.
doctorwayne
so to not wander off-topic too far, here's just one of them...
Your judicious restraint is appreciated.

I gotta say, those ads for flux were disturbing and even nauseating. Some of them actually gave me... ahem... a bit of reflux.Whistling

-Matt

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

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Posted by cv_acr on Monday, November 21, 2022 1:47 PM

That's an "AirSlide" design covered hopper. It uses air pressure to discharge fine granular products.

It's sort of a precursor to pressure-unloading cars that would be used for sugar and flour (and other fine products) today.

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Posted by cv_acr on Monday, November 21, 2022 1:48 PM
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Posted by crossthedog on Monday, November 21, 2022 4:57 PM

cv_acr
https://lionelllc.wordpress.com/2014/02/07/freight-car-friday-airslide-covered-hoppers/

Great article, Chris. It says that the cars could either dump their load straight down into a pit, or have their load pneumatically unloaded, I guess through a hose.

On my car (see photo in first post) I see the horizontal pipe under the center of the car used for hooking up the pressurized air, but I don't see any outlet that looks like it would unload the car pneumatically. But as I suggested before, I doubt they would just dump the sugar out between the rails. Anybody have more solid info about getting the product out of here at a bakery or other factory? What equipment would be lying around trackside, or hanging on a wall, or affixed to the ground?

-Matt

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

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Posted by crossthedog on Monday, November 21, 2022 5:03 PM

Here's the underside:

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

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Posted by gmpullman on Monday, November 21, 2022 5:38 PM

This isn't an airslide but it gives a good look at pneumatic unloading:

Good Luck, Ed

 

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Posted by crossthedog on Monday, November 21, 2022 8:24 PM

gmpullman
This isn't an airslide but it gives a good look at pneumatic unloading:

Ed, that's fascinating, and it very much rhymes with what I had imagined when I heard about hoses and pneumatic unloading, but I just don't see where on my model one would attach a hose like that.

Also, in 1957, would there just be a little locked closet on the outside of an industry next to the track that had hoses in it for this purpose? I guess I could make something up but I would rather know what this really looked like. Where are some of the old-timers (older than my own 60 years, I mean) who might have worked on the railroads and seen or performed these jobs?

-Matt

 

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

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Posted by OldEngineman on Monday, November 21, 2022 9:50 PM

Matt asks: "Where are some of the old-timers (older than my own 60 years, I mean) who might have worked on the railroads and seen or performed these jobs?"

In my Conrail days, we used to take empty covered hoppers (short ones) from the "West Yard" at Croton down the Hudson line to what we called "the sugar house" just south of Yonkers station.

I believe these were loaded with powdered or granulated sugar, I remember someone saying that a good portion of it went to the Hershey PA candy factories. We'd pull about 3 or 4 loads out, put empties back in.

The loads would go back to Croton, and get picked up to be shipped north to Selkirk at night on the OPSE.

A pic at this URL (might be copyrighted, so I'm just posting a link):

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/21427/csx-b749-sb-yonkers-sugar-house-pp02.JPG

Pic was taken 'way past my time there. The covered hopper behind the engines is loaded with plastic pellets for a firm named "Rollex" which made plastic bags, just a little south of the sugar house.

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Posted by flyboy14295 on Monday, November 21, 2022 11:05 PM

OldEngineman
Pic was taken 'way past my time there. The covered hopper behind the engines is loaded with plastic pellets for a firm named "Rollex" which made plastic bags, just a little south of the sugar house.

Ah the Yonkers Domino Sugar factory!  I lived just down the street from Croton Harmon. Passed by there many times!

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Posted by crossthedog on Monday, November 21, 2022 11:25 PM

Thanks for this vignette, OEM. I love hearing about railroadmen's memories of their workdays of yore. I wish there were a fifth category of post here dedicated to stories, yarns, memories, myths, legends and the quotidian details of a day working the line.

Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.

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