Mixing bowl of road units

[Anonymous]

BigDaddy

I feel like I need those flash cards, like they used in WW2 to identify ship and airplane silhouettes.

Locomotive Spotter cards...

Wait is that a thing? Because if its not, it definitely should be.  I wonder who you would talk to get the ball rolling on something like that.  Given that there are only 52 (or is it 54 with jokers, we would come up short with all the external differences).   I guess you would have a deck for each manufacturer?  

EMD

GE

Alco

Baldwin (might beable to combine ALCO/Baldwin into a deck)

others?

Or maybe by time periods 

Early diesels/1st Gen

2nd Generation

etc

[wjstix]

NILE

This is a great thread.  Some much information about how the railroads used power together.  I model both 1st generation diesels and moden power.  What types of engines were rated for different speeds?  Was it as simple as passenger versus frieght locomotives?  Are frieght locomotives rated for different speeds?  Are modern locomotives rated differently, or are they purely horsepower? 

Thanks.

 

Diesel engines were/are able to be set up with different gearing, which will affect how fast they can go. Back in the era of private passenger trains, railroads would generally try to set up their freight diesels' gearing so that any combination of them would run together well. Their passenger engines would be set up with a different gear ratio, so they could go faster...say 65 for freight, 90 for passenger.

 

This means a railroad might order some F-7s with the higher gear ratio, steam boilers, and other accessories so they could be used on passenger trains, and also order F-7s set up with a slower gearing to be used as freight engines. The freight engines would likely be set up to run with their other freight diesels, like say GP-7s or SD-9s (although both of those types of diesels could be set up for passenger service too). Great Northern used F-7s on their fastest passenger trains like the Empire Builder, Fast Mail, and Western Star, but also had freight F-7s that were set up to slog along at 30-35 MPH with heavy iron ore trains in Minnesota.

 

The gearing could be changed, but it had to be done in a repair shop - it wasn't like just making a quick adjustment. For example, when ATSF needed more passenger F's in the 1940's than they were able to buy (due to long backlogs at EMD) they sent some of their freight FTs to their shops to be converted to passenger service by regearing them, adding steam generators, repainting them into the 'warbonnet' scheme, and I believe adding a second headlight. Later, when new Fs finally arrived, they converted them back to freight engines.

 

There are/were situations where there were factors that required a certain type of engine go first, but usually as noted it was something not readily apparently externally, like only certain engines having in-cab signalling systems. For example, New York Central freight trains that ran through over the Burlington to St.Paul MN had to have a CB&Q engine leading the NYC engines. But otherwise most railroads wanted to be able to mix their freight engines with other freight engines so that they could make the best use of the engines. 

 

 

[dehusman]

NILE

What types of engines were rated for different speeds?

The "speed" of an engine is based on its wheel diameter, gearing, and intended purpose.  Nominally the vast majority of engines are geared to support 65-70 mph, the typical top end for freight service.  Passenger engines are geared for 80-120 mph service.  In addition, certain rairoads geared certain engines higher for higher speed service, like TOFC service, but those were mostly in the early days of the 2nd generation power.

Today virtually all the engines are rated for 65-70 mph service except passenger units that may be geared higher.

EMD typically used 62:15 gearing with 40" wheels on engines up through the 50 series.  SD60 and better had 77:17 gearing and 40" wheels, the SD70's had 77:17 gearing and 42" wheels.  GE C44-9 had a 74:18 gearing and 42" wheels.

Basically they can all run together.

What is different is the short term rating of engines, particularly the older ones.  On older, non-AC engines they had a minum speed  they could be operated at maximum amperage.  If you ran too slow pulling too much power, you could overheat the traction motors.  Generally the higher the gear ration the higher the speed, the lower the horsepower, the higher the speed.  A high geared engine couldn't be used in drag service.

With more modern engines, the minimum speeds are so low and with AC engines its basically not a problem so modern engineers with modern engines don't need to worry about it.  But if you mix older and newer engines and load them up at slow speed, you can burn  up the traction motors of the older engines.

Because of that many railroads avoided mixing the new high horsepower engines with older engines, especially 4 axle engines.  If you have  2 C44AC's and add a GP-7 you actually can haul less tonnage up a hill than the 2 C44AC's because the short term rating of the GP reduces how much the whole consist can pull.

 

[BRAKIE]

dehusman

Today, b will show.oth GP38s and SD40s are considered "yard" or "local" power, so are once again, pretty much the same thing. 40 years ago they were considered very different.

Actually both NS and CSX uses rebuit SD40-2 in main line freights as any modern you tube railroad video will show.

Look closer and there are SD40-2s from the locomotive lease companies that is in main line service.

[PED]

Who buils up the loco arrangement?  On the BNSF, I frequently see a lead loco with the legacy Santa Fe paint even if it looks shabby compared to the shiny BNSF locos behind it. Is that due to preferences of the engineer?

[NHTX]

      Agreements between the unions and railroads also determine locomotive consists.  When the Penn Central folded the power of the New York Central, Pennsylvania, and New Haven into one big pool, NYC's agreement stipulated NYC power would have high-backed, comfortable seats while PRR and NH did not.  When an NYC crew was called for a train led by a PRR or NH unit, they refused to take it, citing the union agreement they were working under, since PC had not negotiated a new agreement under the PC banner.  End result:  Find an NYC unit to lead and shuffle the consist.  What makes no sense on the surface could have many invisble factors behind it.  That 40 year old SD-40-2 leading those newer high horsepower  units may have the creature comforts, signal equipment or other goodies those newer, run-through units don't have and, to honor a written agreement, the old guy with the goodies takes the point.

[Silverliner266]

PED

Who buils up the loco arrangement?  On the BNSF, I frequently see a lead loco with the legacy Santa Fe paint even if it looks shabby compared to the shiny BNSF locos behind it. Is that due to preferences of the engineer?

 

 

I can't speak for the BNSF but in and around Philadelphia cab signals and now PTC are required for most if not all road movements so the lead unit will need that equipment. 

[dehusman]

PED

Who buils up the loco arrangement?

The number of locomotives is usually set by a system policy.

Which locomotives are on the train are usualy set jointly by the diesel shop/service track foreman and the manager/chief dispatcher/asst chief dispatcher responsible for locomotive distribution.

What order the locomotives are on the train is generally set by the service track/diesel shop foreman (complying with policy and maybe with concurrance of the manager/chief dispatcher/asst chief dispatcher responsible for locomotive distribution.)

Generally the foreman chooses sets that require the least amount of cutting and swapping around and still meets the guidelines.

Foremen really don't care what condition the paint is in, it doesn't matter, they aren't going to paint the engine at the service track in any circumstance.  What care about is is it the right unit, is it equipped properly, is it running, does it have enough supplies to get to where its going?