I just purchased a Bachmann HO scale Santa Fe 2-10-4 and currently I´m asking myself what types of freight trains these engines usually pulled in the early 50s (my time frame is 51-53 to be more precise). I only know that they were mostly working in New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas, but I don´t know anything about the trains that they pulled most commonly. I have the intention to have it pull my 40 car mixed freight train featuring 13 box cars, 8 tank cars, 6 stock cars, 6 hoppers, 4 gondolas, 2 flat cars and a caboose of course. Is that ok or would you Santa Fe experts out there say this is an unusual type of freight train for a Santa Fe 2-10-4 in the early 50s?
By the way I also read that because of their big 74 inch drivers they were also used in passenger service, but I never saw a photo of a Santa Fe 2-10-4 pulling a passenger train, not even a troop train. The idea of having a heavyweight California Limited being pulled by the 2-10-4 is really nice to me, but I really doubt that this train was still pulled by steam engines between 1951 and 1953. And especially not by 2-10-4´s since Santa Fe had enough 4-8-4´s for that duty.
The ATSF 2-10-4's were indeed 'Big Time' engines. They were designed for freight service, with a passenger capability. I would suspect that general freight with a heavy dose of SFRD reefers moving California produce east would be a typical train.
Now, onto the Bachmann engine. IIRC, it was only produced for a year or two. And the ones I have seen came with a NYC 'centipede' tender! You would need a scrap Bachmann 4-8-4 tender to really make it correct, and I have my doubts if the model cound really pull very much.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
They would most likely be pulling a mixed freight or a train of SFRD reefers. You probably have way too many hoppers for a "typical" ATSF train. The ATSF had hardly any hoppers when compared to other roads. They would be way heavier on boxcars and reefers.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Oh yeah, I realize now: a reefer trains sounds logical because they were fast freights with a fast schedule because of all the fresh stuff inside those reefers that needed to reach it´s destinations as fast as possible. And with their 74 inch drivers these monsters surely were Santa Fe´s fastest freight steamers. Too bad I don´t have any reefer in my fleet!
Well, they didn´t all! For a very limited time Bachmann produced their old Santa Fe 2-10-4 with the correct 16 wheel oil tender (the same that was used for their 4-8-4´s)! I was lucky enough to find that one since I never would buy one with that NYC tender. They have lots of weight over the drivers and there is still some space to add some extra weight into the boiler. And it´s also featuring traction tires which is a really good thing for increased pulling power, so it´s a much better puller than I expected! Here is a photo of the pretty rare Texas Chugger with correct oil tender!
You don't have to break the bank with a very large purchase, but if it were my project, I'd try to buy one IMWX ATSF reefer every couple weeks at the LHS over a fairly long period. Once you have 15- 20 or so, you'll be able to run a proper reefer block. As for the boxcars, they should be heavy on ATSF, with a fair sampling of PRR, NYC, B&O, UP, SP, and various southwestern roads with JUST ONE unexpected one from a far distant area (just to keep your audience on their toes).
The PRR leased some of these engines in the 50's. They had retired a lot of their own J class (2-10-4) and traffic suddenly surged. The PRR found it cheaper to lease Santa Fe's 2-10-4s than reactivate their own. On the PRR they pulled heavy coal trains.
Gidday, possibly not a regular everyday occurance but....
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/gregelmassian/Santa%20Fe%20Steam/2-10-4%20helper.jpg
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Nice catch, Bear!
Actually, that probably was an everyday occurance, for at least as long as Madame Queen was assigned to the Cajon Pass helper pool. NO WAY were those two E units going to climb out of the LA Basin unassisted.
Nicest part - AT&SF Number 5000 still exists - on display in Amarillo, TX.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
That´s a really nice photo! It´s even more interesting because #5000 had smaller 69 inch drivers while the other 2-10-4´s had 74 inch drivers and therefore were even more suitable for passenger helper duty. To be honest the Santa Fe E6´s are the most beautiful and elegant diesels in my eyes. I have a 12 car Super Chief being pulled by 5 F7 Units in A-B-B-B-A configuration, so adding a 5011 class 2-10-4 would certainly look way too overpowered. But I could leave out the Pleasure Dome, buy a E6 A-B Unit and have it pull a 11 car pre 1951 consist. And then a 5011 class 2-10-4 helper would surely look good in front of it!
If you want to see pictures of these engines at work you could track down two books by Joe G. Collias, The Search for Steam and The Last of Steam. They're out of print but show up at train shows and train book dealer's collection. They show the 2-10-4's in helper service on the Abo Canyon Grade and racing over the plains with fruit drags ( called GFX trains on the Santa Fe ) and fast freight. Chances are your Bachmann engine isn't going to pull the 100 car drags the Santa Fe loaded these engines with. Older brass examples of these engines are fairly common and price competetive with the latest steamer models that have "all the bells and whistles".
Nice photo,Bear. Chuck,looking at other pictures I have of the area,I think the location is actually Wooten,Colorado on Raton Pass.
Mike
JimValleThey show the 2-10-4's in helper service on the Abo Canyon Grade and racing over the plains with fruit drags ( called GFX trains on the Santa Fe ) and fast freight. Chances are your Bachmann engine isn't going to pull the 100 car drags the Santa Fe loaded these engines with.
I´ve already seen many photos of the 2-10-4´s in helper service on the Abo Canyon Grade. It´s interesting that until 1953, F Units were the helpers coupled in front of the 2-10-4´s, but after 1953 until the very end of steam operation in 1957 the situation changed and the 2-10-4´s became the helpers of the F Units being coupled in front of them. What I could do is couple my 2-10-4 as a helper in front of my F7 A-B-B-B-A Unit. Then I could surely have it pull a 100 car train if I only had enough space for a 100 car freight train, because my F Unit lashup is so powerful that i could pull 100 cars also without the 2-10-4. But I´m restricted to 40 cars, so that will be enough for the 2-10-4 to handle by herself alone. But no matter if I want to create a typical Abo Canyon freight train with helper or without helper, there are 2 things that are not very prototypical for such a scenario: My F7 Units are painted in Warbonnet scheme, which in those days was strictly used for passenger trains only, and I still don´t own a single Santa Fe reefer. My freight rain is totally mixed. But I think that the 2-10-4 in front of a 40 car mixed freight train will still look very ok in HO scale.
Gidday, just out of idle curiosity, in that photo I found, what speed would the train be doing?
I´m not sure but I would say something around 20-30 mph...
Bear,a couple of photo's from the same spot(Wooten,Colo.) in the Kalmbach book "Santa Fe in the Mountains" show the El Capitan train with a 2-10-2 helper.The photographer notes that the train was down to 15 mph at this point-ascending the 3.5 percent grade.
middlemanBear,a couple of photo's from the same spot(Wooten,Colo.) in the Kalmbach book "Santa Fe in the Mountains" show the El Capitan train with a 2-10-2 helper.The photographer notes that the train was down to 15 mph at this point-ascending the 3.5 percent grade.
Another interesting note from Raton Pass. This was where an engineer's mistake stalled the Fast Mail and Express on the maiden trip with the Alco Ps on the point. They sent it up the pass without a helper. The PABA set was able to get the extra heavy train moving again on the steep grade which greatly impressed the Santa Fe management. One of my all time favorite railroad trivia stories.
Thanks Gents, and I thought that the 1:35 (2.85%) ruling grade on the local branch line was a bit of a "pull".
But hang on a minute, 3.5% ???, I thought that it was only modelers with NO room who modeled those sort of "unprototypical" grades.
Now what do you say about this? The Southern Railways Saluda Grade has a maximum of 4,9%!!! It´s the steepest standard-gauge mainline railway grade in the US, and interestingly it´s note even located in the Rocky Mountains! By the way I never saw a photo of Southerns 2-8-8-2 mallets working on that grade. Seems like Southerns USRA 2-10-2´s with their moderate 70.000 lbs of tractive force ruled there!
De LuxeNow what do you say about this?
De LuxeThe Southern Railways Saluda Grade has a maximum of 4,9%! It´s the steepest standard-gauge mainline railway grade in the US,