Does anybody have any informations and or pictures of a barrel maker shop?
Im wanting to put a brewery on my layout and im having a hard time finding any info on barrel makers
Were they served by rail often or more by truck?
I think it will be a nice touch on my layout which will be in a rural setting
Thanks in advance
My hunch is that a really really large brewery would have an integrated and dedicated barrel factory on site. A smaller brewery would buy its barrels from a cooperage rather than make its own. Pre 1900 I am sure they would be rail shipped. Once trucks came on the scene, I have to think barrels would be a somewhat less likely rail shipment, first because barrel factories tended to be local and serve local needs, and second because the volume a barrel takes up is all out of proportion to its weight, making it hard to arrive at an economic tarrif.
Here is an excellent arrticle about a barral factory/cooperage, which was decidedly rail served, although not necessarily for the beer business; article mentions whiskey. Lots of great photos and information.
http://www.clevelandjewishhistory.net/gen/klausner-cooperage.htm
Shaker's cigar bar in Milwaukee is said to be a former Schlitz brewing barrel factory. There are some photos here. As you can see it is not large.
http://www.planet99.com/milwaukee/bars/shakers_cigar_bar.html
It was not really near the Schlitz brewery per se, nor a rail line. Of course, neither was the horse farm for their wagons or other operations
This history of Molson's
http://www.referenceforbusiness.com/history2/68/Molson-Coors-Brewing-Company.html
indicates that while the brewery was in Montreal, they purchased a barrel factory in Port Hope Ontario.
Woodland Scenics has introduced a barrel factory in their ready built line.
Dave Nelson
4Steam Does anybody have any informations and or pictures of a barrel maker shop? Im wanting to put a brewery on my layout and im having a hard time finding any info on barrel makers Were they served by rail often or more by truck? I think it will be a nice touch on my layout which will be in a rural setting Thanks in advance
I recall a small barrell manufacturer that was once located in Columbus,Oh,and judging by the size of their building it didn't appear to be a large manufacturer and certainly not rail served...It supplied barrels for the Gambrinus Brewing Company on South Front Street and another business...The only reason I recall this unremarkable business is because of the rough looking men that worked there and like the other kids I dreaded walking by there.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Thank you both
Dave them very some very intresting links
Do yall think i could make the barrel factory rail served?
Looks like it wouldnt be a problem with the loading dock on the back of this building
http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/Item/BR5026/page/1
Thank you again
Sure! They can receive lumber by rail and ship barrels by boxcar to various breweries and distilleries.
Try typing "cooperage" into your search engine. That's the recognized name for a place that manufactures barrels. (And now you know what Dr. Cooper's ancestor did for a living.)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I did some research in my industrial library, especially material accumulated when i was modeled an East Texas forest-industries area.
The Standard Industrial Classification for wooden barrel factories comes under "SIC 2429 Special Product sawmills, not elsewhere classified" which includes cooperage, wooden crates, excelsior and shingles.
The Directory of Wood-Using and Related Industries in East Texas, 1966 published by the University of Texas Bureau of Business Research shows two industries in that SIC: A. C. Miller, Jacksonville, TX, and Ramoneda Bros, Jasper, TX.
Jasper, Texas was on the Santa Fe between Silsbee and San Augustine but I have no further information on Ramonedo Bros.
According to the Atlas of Texas (1963) compiled by the University of Texas Bureau of Business Research p.69, wood container manufacturers in Texas included 5 firms in the Houston area, 3 around Rusk, 1 in Dallas and 1 in McAllen.
Have you searched Library of Congress/ American architectural and industrial record? at www.loc.gov. They have hundreds of thousands of buildings and industries covered with multiple detail pictures, architectural drawings, written specifications, etc. And it's free. (Or, it's part of what you pay for with your taxes...)
For a larger factory, they probably wouldn't just make barrels, but as noted above, wooden crates, boxes, shingles etc.. The farther back you go, the more likely it would be that it would be served by rail. Unless it was a really huge plant, it probably by the forties-fifties would have switched to trucks.
Remember beer generally couldn't' be shipped very far before pasteurization came along. IIRC that's part of why Coors was once only available in a limited area, because they refused to pasteurize the beer so it would spoil if transported to far under imperfect conditions. Anyway, grain coming in, along with bottles, kegs, barrels etc. would all make sense for a brewery, but generally the outgoing product when be local. Any beer shipped by rail would be relatively short haul, maybe a few hundred miles. I've seen pics 100 years ago or more of Grain Belt Beer from the Twin Cities being unloaded from reefers in small/medium towns in Minnesota for example...but it wouldn't be shipped much beyond that.
wjstix Remember beer generally couldn't' be shipped very far before pasteurization came along. [snip] generally the outgoing product when be local. Any beer shipped by rail would be relatively short haul, maybe a few hundred miles. I've seen pics 100 years ago or more of Grain Belt Beer from the Twin Cities being unloaded from reefers in small/medium towns in Minnesota for example...but it wouldn't be shipped much beyond that.
Remember beer generally couldn't' be shipped very far before pasteurization came along. [snip] generally the outgoing product when be local. Any beer shipped by rail would be relatively short haul, maybe a few hundred miles. I've seen pics 100 years ago or more of Grain Belt Beer from the Twin Cities being unloaded from reefers in small/medium towns in Minnesota for example...but it wouldn't be shipped much beyond that.
True enough - except that anything traveling more than a FEW miles - say, beyond the city limits of the brewery's location, would have traveled by rail. Anheuser-Busch was one of the pioneer users of ice reefers. Don't know how far the Budweiser was shipped, but the Clydesdales wouldn't have been used outside of the city imits of St Louis.
Now, of course, you can by Budweiser in Bangkok. Why anyone would is beyond me, since Singha is a much better beer...
Chuck (Sometime beer drinker modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
The Boca Brewing Company on SP's Donner Pass route was established in 1875 and was an enormous shipper of the brew (for the times), bottling the equivalent of 30,000 barrels of beer a year. Its beer was famous and was served at the 1883 World's Fair in Paris. Wasn't this before beer pasteurization? If so, it must have been shipped refrigerated. Think of it: widely distributed beer shipped in bottles, not barrels, in the 19th century. (It is the water. Water from Boca's source was shipped in tank cars to Sacramento because it was so good/pure.)
Mark
For the record other products besides brews were shipped in barrels. My first full time job out of high school (1957) was at an upholstered furniture factory. We received nails, chair and table legs in barrels and kegs. At that time nails came in 100lbs kegs. A couple of years later they changed to 50lbs heavy cardboard boxes; what a relief.
Have fun, Rob
g. gage For the record other products besides brews were shipped in barrels. My first full time job out of high school (1957) was at an upholstered furniture factory. We received nails, chair and table legs in barrels and kegs. At that time nails came in 100lbs kegs. A couple of years later they changed to 50lbs heavy cardboard boxes; what a relief. Have fun, Rob
I recall seeing small wooden drums laid out along the NYC's Hudson River trackage, along with brand-new ties and bundles of tie plates. The drums contained spikes.
This 13 year old was never tempted to try to pick one up, so I have no idea how much they weighed.
tomikawaTT wjstix Remember beer generally couldn't' be shipped very far before pasteurization came along. [snip] generally the outgoing product when be local. Any beer shipped by rail would be relatively short haul, maybe a few hundred miles. I've seen pics 100 years ago or more of Grain Belt Beer from the Twin Cities being unloaded from reefers in small/medium towns in Minnesota for example...but it wouldn't be shipped much beyond that. True enough - except that anything traveling more than a FEW miles - say, beyond the city limits of the brewery's location, would have traveled by rail. Anheuser-Busch was one of the pioneer users of ice reefers. Don't know how far the Budweiser was shipped, but the Clydesdales wouldn't have been used outside of the city imits of St Louis. Now, of course, you can by Budweiser in Bangkok. Why anyone would is beyond me, since Singha is a much better beer... Chuck (Sometime beer drinker modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Enter the ice reefers as noted and we ended up with all those beer reefers that many buy.
However,the OP mention trucks and that sounds like long distance shipping in insulated boxcars then ice reefers.
Again thank you everyone for the info and replies
What i plan to do is have a small brewery to serve the small rural town on my layout so there shouldnt be any long distance shippinge
The reason i wanted a barrel maker is because that gives me a reason to have a small saw mill served by rail and if possible maybe a small logging camp to serve the saw mill.,Depends on if i can fit it in my small space i have (roughly 8ftx8ft) and im modeling in Ho so we will see.
Another question how and where did barrel makers get the materials for the rings?
Somebody mentoned cases and wooden crates i will try to simulate my brewery using them also i also will be using ice reefers gives me a reasin to have a ice house and platform.
Thanks again
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I suspect a local foundry may have supplied the rings for barrel manufacturers and local lumber company supplied the wood and the finish barrels would be trucked to nearby breweries while boxcars would be used for longer distance prior to the Interstate highways.
I have been documenting the Manufacturers Railway in Toledo, OH and after the turn of the century (post 1900) there was a brewery on the line that was served by the railroad. The Finlay Brewery had structures on either side of the Mfg. Rwy branch line. The line ran down the middle of Water Street along the Maumee River. A few blocks down Water Street from the brewery there was a cooperage. It was a small structure and did not have rail service. I would infer from my research to date that barrels for the brewery would have been hauled by truck, or wagon. The brewery itself had a fairly large garage/stables along the river for its vehicles. The cooperage was near several lumber yards that were located along Water Street, so its raw materials would have been trucked in also. Later, the brewery building on the side nearest the river was a bottling plant and that may have reduced the amount of barrels or kegs that were needed. There was a glass bottle plant (Libbey Glass) built a few blocks from the brewery after the turn of the century that was serviced by a railroad that interchanged with the Mfg. Rwy., so glass bottles were easily shipped in to the brewery. Depending on your time period, you could use that scenario for your layout. There were several foundries and iron works along the MFG. Rwy. and they could have easily produced the rings for the cooperage. Unfortunately, I have found no pictures of the cooperage so far. The property it was on was rather small, perhaps less than half a city block wide and deep. The actual building occupied less than half the property.
Jim - Preserving the history of the NKP Cloverleaf first subdivision.
Thank you
Jamis i may use the basic plan of what you are saying with a little twist
Thank you all for the responses got alot of good info and a much better response than other places i have posted asking questions
Was steam used to make the barrels? I note the big pipes overhead in the first photo link. This would be handy if you needed to run a track through a back drop like I am doing on another kind of industry and want to make the opening inconspicious. You would have a square hole in the backdrop with the buildings on both sides of the track and the piping overhead. What would the cyclones on the roof be used for--to blow out saw dust from cutting wood?
wabash2800 Was steam used to make the barrels? I note the big pipes overhead in the first photo link. This would be handy if you needed to run a track through a back drop like I am doing on another kind of industry and want to make the opening inconspicious. You would have a square hole in the backdrop with the buildings on both sides of the track and the piping overhead. What would the cyclones on the roof be used for--to blow out saw dust from cutting wood? Edit: A closer examination reveals that the cyclones or whatever they are, are connected to the big pipes that cross the tracks and ender the other building through the roof. Perhaps the steam was produced on one side of the tracks and piped to the production building?
Edit: A closer examination reveals that the cyclones or whatever they are, are connected to the big pipes that cross the tracks and ender the other building through the roof. Perhaps the steam was produced on one side of the tracks and piped to the production building?
Many older manufacturing complexes (more than one buiding) had a central steam plant with pipes to distribute steam. Steam pipes were usually large diameter (8" or bigger), insulated (with asbestos) pipes run above ground between buildings.
Steam was used to provide heat (low press), run machinery (high press), and in the case of woodworking, to steam bend wood (low press) to needed shapes. The central steam plant let the complex use a single boiler, fuel system, and manning to supply the entire complex. From 1900 until WW2, steam infrastructure was at least as critical as electric in most locations.
I was introduced to steam power plants as throttle man on the turbines of a steam ship. What a difference from the dirt and grime of a diesel ship. The only dirty places on a steam ship were the boiler rooms and exhaust spaces. Cleanliness was critical to quickly locate and fix any leaks - leaking high pressure steam is often invisible and deadly.
Fred W
Generally, I think empty ice reefers would be iced by the railroad prior to delivery to the brewery. The brewery probably wouldn't have it's own facilities for icing cars.
Pickles were also shipped in barrels back in the 1800s and perhaps later. Railroad spikes, too, as someone mentioned. There were different sizes of barrels according to what they were meant to contain.
Coopers didn't need shops as large as one might imagine because of two main points: their raw materials were very compact for storage, even when wood was shaped into staves (very easily stacked); and once the barrels were made they went out the door pretty fast. That's why a large cooperage by quantity of barrels made would fit in a smaller facility, This also helped large brewers keep cooperages in-house for efficiency's sake.
The raw materials were pretty simple: wood and banding (either metal usually arriving on reels, or wood). Soaking or steaming wood for stave fabrication could take up space, but was considered more desirable than shaping staves by 'scooping' and fairing the curves with a shaving tool since all that did was waste wood and didn't improve the quality of the stave. A high-volume cooperage would have plenty of wood shavings on hand anyway, from tapering the stave ends.
I don't have any information on this, but it might be an interesting modeling feature: distilleries were often known for charring the insides of their barrels as part of the seasoning, aging and flavoring for their distilled products. Dunno how they charred large numbers of new barrels, but I bet it could be an interesting scene, especially if some newbie in the plant let the charring get a bit out of hand. . .
Personally I'd prefer to be the taster than the cooper.
Hi. We in Ontario, Canada have a company that produces a barrel factory. It is a kit that makes up to a very nice display. E-mail Address(es): joe@fullsteamahead.ca
Hope this helps.