So, the box car has said message tacked to the door. (and hopefully "Unload THIS Side" on the other door). Who makes sure that the boxcar is facing the correct way? The conductor of the local? The yardmaster? Who turns the car and where? I have seen some fairly large yards where the nearest Wye is a mile or 5 away at a branch line junction.
Phil
Timber Head Eastern Railroad "THE Railroad Through the Sierras"
THE.RRSo, the box car has said message tacked to the door. (and hopefully "Unload THIS Side" on the other door). Who makes sure that the boxcar is facing the correct way? The conductor of the local? The yardmaster?
More or less yes to both of those. If the turning facility is in the yard then the yardmaster has responsibility, if the turning facility is out on line then the conductor, ultimately the conductor is responsible for spotting it correctly.
Who turns the car and where? I have seen some fairly large yards where the nearest Wye is a mile or 5 away at a branch line junction
Wherever there is a facility for turning a car (wye, turntable, balloon loop) and whatever job works that area. If its in a yard then a yard engine, if its out on line then the local.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
It wouldn't be a concern if the car could be conviently unloaded from either side by the customer. If not and if special instruction had been provided, I would think the conductor would be ultimately responsible. If instructions were overlooked or absent, the customer could refuse delivery or request the railroad to remove the car for turning and redelivery. If a convenient facility (turntable, wye, or balloon track) wasn't immediately available, the conductor would return the car to yard. Hopefully, adequate shipper/customer/railroad coordination, railroad policy, and alert yardmaster and staff would assure the car was properly oriented before delivering the car to the customer.
This issue arises for end-door unloading too.
Mark
THE.RRWho turns the car . . . . . . . . . .?
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
On any size layout, such placards can add to operations, too, with an extra move to turn a car while pre-blocking a train, or, for unwary operators, an extra run to the nearest turning facility before spotting the car.
Wayne
Mark and Dave,It is not the responsibility of the local's conductor since he is a road conductor and not a yard conductor nor is it the Yardmaster job...He's just the yard boss and not a trainman or switchman.
That is the job and responsibility of the yard conductor that builds the local.The instructions would be on his switch list..
You see there are Union work rules and job descriptions that must be complied with.
BTW..If the instructions was overlooked there would be a day of reckoning with the Division Superintendent which could lead to a 3-10 day force vacation without pay or a permanent vacation..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIE Mark and Dave,It is not the responsibility of the local's conductor since he is a road conductor and not a yard conductor nor is it the Yardmaster job...He's just the yard boss and not a trainman or switchman. That is the job and responsibility of the yard conductor that builds the local.The instructions would be on his switch list..
Assuming that there is a turning facility in the yard, assuming that the yard job building the train knows that the car needs to be turned, assuming the yard job building the train knows which way to turn the car to be spotted correctly, assuming the yard job knows which industry the car goes to.
The person that would give all that information to the yard crew would be the yardmaster.
Who does what at which location is a union work rule. Whether it gets done is railroad rule.
Dave said:The person that would give all that information to the yard crew would be the yardmaster.
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Actually he doesn't..All that comes down from operations..The YM just oversees the yard and has no real say on what car gets move or made into trains.
As far as turning facilities..Every major terminal has one-usually a wye.Its a necessary evil.
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Any railroader worth his salt knows that..IF he didn't I wouldn't give a penny for his job future.
Again there are written instructions to be followed..IF they're not I guarantee you there will be a day of reckoning in front of the division super. And that BTW is not a fun place to be.
BRAKIEActually he doesn't..All that comes down from operations..The YM just oversees the yard and has no real say on what car gets move or made into trains.
Evidently the responsibility and authority of your yardmasters is significantly less than the yardmasters I am familiar with.
dehusman BRAKIEActually he doesn't..All that comes down from operations..The YM just oversees the yard and has no real say on what car gets move or made into trains. Evidently the responsibility and authority of your yardmasters is significantly less than the yardmasters I am familiar with.
You do know what is yardmaster is right?
No?
He's usually a burned out yard conductor that was promoted instead of being fired..Of course some was strong company men that was worried more about overtime then moving freight.
I am told the new breed of yardmaster comes straight from college with no real railroad knowledge..
To put this idea into a model railroad context, I have one terminal yard that has a turntable specifically because some cars have to be turned, either to spot for unloading or because the brake cabin of a (fillintheblank)-brake is supposed to be at the rear in order to show markers correctly. It never turns a locomotive - they are all oriented with the smokeboxes on the upgrade end, to assure that there will be water over the crown sheet on the 4% portions of the upgrade to the mine.
Why an expensive turntable and not a cheap wye? Because the terminal is at the bottom of a steep-sided valley, and there was no place to build a wye.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with double-ended locomotives and single-ended brake vans)
THE.RR So, the box car has said message tacked to the door. (and hopefully "Unload THIS Side" on the other door). Who makes sure that the boxcar is facing the correct way? The conductor of the local? The yardmaster? Who turns the car and where? I have seen some fairly large yards where the nearest Wye is a mile or 5 away at a branch line junction. Phil
The question I'd have is, how often does a car like this actually need special spotting - or is the message aimed more at the people who will be unloading the car to be sure to open one side door first to start unloading??
I'm just wondering what cannot be unloaded out of either side of a boxcar - I don't think grain or powdered items travel by boxcar anymore (the modern-era 40' boxcars built for cement service were for bagged cement), and I though all those funky inflatable load restrainers were bi-directional.Also, someone mentioned end-door cars in a previous post - are there anymore in current North American revenue service?
chutton01 I'm just wondering what cannot be unloaded out of either side of a boxcar - I don't think grain or powdered items travel by boxcar anymore (the modern-era 40' boxcars built for cement service were for bagged cement), and I though all those funky inflatable load restrainers were bi-directional.
It is possible to load things in a boxcar where they foul one door of a boxcar. Lets say you are loading 4x8 sheets of plywood into a 40 ft boxcar. You can fit 5 sheets end to end on one side of the boxcar. But the middle two sheets will straddle the door opposite the one you are loading through where if you open that door to start unloading, you won't be able to lift the sheets with a forklift. So that door is blocked. Obviously when you finish loading the car there will be some sort of void in front of the door through which you loaded the car. But that is the only door you can get into the car to unload stuff. So that is the door that has to be next to the dock.
Pretty much anything that might be longer than the door is wide (lumber, carpet, large crates, etc).
Also, someone mentioned end-door cars in a previous post - are there anymore in current North American revenue service?
No.There are a few in non-revenue service, the National Bureau of Standards has (or had) an end door car to carry a standard scale test car.
Dave wrote:Lets say you are loading 4x8 sheets of plywood into a 40 ft boxcar. You can fit 5 sheets end to end on one side of the boxcar. But the middle two sheets will straddle the door opposite the one you are loading through where if you open that door to start unloading, you won't be able to lift the sheets with a forklift.
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Dave,Actually that isn't a problem..That's when you unload by hand.I even had to do that when I was working in a warehouse as a forklift operator.
When I was in high school I had a summer job unloading lumber and the few shipments of 4x8s was loaded on their side-got more in the cars...
That was a hot,sweaty and rough job..Mike Rowe should have a go at it.
From many years ago on a large Eastern Railroad.
If a car had to be facing a certain way to be unloaded the conductor made sure it was focing the correct way. If there was a place to turn it along the road he could turn it there, if not, he could either cut it out before leaving the initial terminal or bring it back on the return trip and let the Yardmaster worry about it.
A lot of consignees did'nt care which way an "unload other side" car was facing as they could get at it from both sides. Some of the ones that could'nt get at the other side would still unload from the "wrong side". A conductor who worked the job on a regular basis would tend to know what would be acceptable at different industries. If he figured wrong, he would just have to pull the car the next day and take it to be turned. Of course, the Trainmaster might have some comments on the situation, but he would usually get over it in a day or two...
With an end door box it was usually pretty important to have it turned the right way.
BRAKIE dehusman BRAKIEActually he doesn't..All that comes down from operations..The YM just oversees the yard and has no real say on what car gets move or made into trains. Evidently the responsibility and authority of your yardmasters is significantly less than the yardmasters I am familiar with. You do know what is yardmaster is right? No? He's usually a burned out yard conductor that was promoted instead of being fired..Of course some was strong company men that was worried more about overtime then moving freight. I am told the new breed of yardmaster comes straight from college with no real railroad knowledge..
No, the vast majority of YM's I have had the pleasure/displeasure of working with were trainmen that had enough sense to realize that a promotion really isn't a bad thing; that you ARE allowed to use your brain to a small extent and make a decision. Most YM's are responsible for the immediate operations of a yard. The MYO/ trainmasters may give the YM specific instructions on a move or power setout/ pick up; but its the YM that instructs the crews on what to do.
It looks like the Key Anchor Roll may be easier to unload if the other rolls around it are unloaded first.
http://www.bnsf.com/tools/reference/loading_diagrams/72inchPaper-AnchorRoll.pdf
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
BRAKIE Mark and Dave,It is not the responsibility of the local's conductor since he is a road conductor and not a yard conductor nor is it the Yardmaster job...He's just the yard boss and not a trainman or switchman. That is the job and responsibility of the yard conductor that builds the local.The instructions would be on his switch list.. You see there are Union work rules and job descriptions that must be complied with. BTW..If the instructions was overlooked there would be a day of reckoning with the Division Superintendent which could lead to a 3-10 day force vacation without pay or a permanent vacation..
While that may be true if the car escapes the yardmaster's clutches, the inbound car lists would show special handling requirements, and yes, the yardmaster could direct one of his yard crews to turn the offending car without penalty claims or such, provided the "turning facility" was within the limits for the crew as defined in the local agreements.
Many times in Oakland, CA we have turned cars on the wye at Bay St. under a yeardmaster or trainmaster's direction, placing the properly turned car into the next morning's local.
Once in the local, the car does become the responsiblity of the local's conductor, and more than once I have seen a car cut out of a local for similar load/unload issues.
I doubt seriously that a "forced vacation" would be the result of a mis-spot. A good chewing out, maybe, but not time off. A lot worse offenses have gone unpunished.
4merroad4man I doubt seriously that a "forced vacation" would be the result of a mis-spot. A good chewing out, maybe, but not time off. A lot worse offenses have gone unpunished.
I don't pretend to know anything about today's company/union work rules. My replies is based on my 9 1/2 years experience as a brakeman and back then you would answer for mistakes and 90% of the time a "vacation" was in your future for committing said mistake.
While working on the PRR I had a 3 day vacation for a very minor safety infraction-I appealed through the Union and this suspension was overturned.On the Chessie(C&O) I recieved a 5 day "vacation" as did the other brakeman and conductor.We simply forgot to pickup our previous pickups on the return trip from a load out-We had left the train on a passing siding and took the needed empties(and the caboose) to a mine load out that required a 2 mile reverse move-a common practice.
I seen a yard conductor go and set on a bench after the YM tried to tell him how to switch cars-this was after he told the YM these words that I still remember."Sonny,there can only be 1 conductor on this here yard job.Since you have the work planned I will go and set on that there bench and watch." The YM got red face and headed back into his office.The conductor proceeded to go and sit on the bench.The other 2 brakemen and I just looked at each other.The engineer and fireman laugh and headed toward the engine.After about 15 minutes the conductor said"I see that there other "conductor" ain't going to do the worked he so carefully planned."
I suppose the reason that incident still stands out in my mind is because I was a 18 year old student brakeman.
Larry, those kinds of problems were common in the steel industry, too, and, I suspect, in most unionised shops. Most of it was resolved for us when the company and union finally sat down and formalised all of the job descriptions. Many of these began to be re-written in the late-'90s, as jobs were being amalgamated, resulting in a much wider range of duties for most workers. Not changed throughout this, though, was the separation between the duties of union and management workers.
These same issues arose with "circus style" piggyback unloading ramps -- and still do on model railroads with such ramps.
A friend of mine who worked in a cold storage warehouse tells of time someone disregarded a "unload other side" placard -- upon opening the door they were inundated with an avalanche of frozen strawberry containers, some of which opened up upon impact.
Dave Nelson
BRAKIEI don't pretend to know anything about today's company/union work rules. My replies is based on my 9 1/2 years experience as a brakeman and back then you would answer for mistakes and 90% of the time a "vacation" was in your future for committing said mistake.
I can appreciate the 9 1/2 years of experience, and the fac that you worked for the Pennsy. I have 31 years of experience and worked for the SP. Things are different for each road, and the stories are similar, but out west, our officers weren't as fixated on such things; the error simply got corrected with the next shift, and because the next job had to clean up the first job's mess, the crews tended to handle the problem themselves without yardmaster or trainmaster interference.
Each roads' work rules were different; my point was that this is not a "one size fits all" situation.
Very similar experience to your story, though, in that the yardmasters tended to keep their mouths shut if they knew what was good for them.
When I was a lot younger, I use to unload bagged feed from boxcars at a GTW freight house. Cars were loaded by forklift with bags on pallets. Half the time cars came in backwards. All it meant was we had to unload from the outside with a pallet mover and fork truck instead of a bridgeplate into the car from the house.
I also had the pleasure of unloading loose steel balls for a ball grinder(think ball bearings the size of softballs). The car had one door boarded up near to the top while the other side was only boarded to the level of the load. Much easier to get in from the low side and you only had to tear out a couple boards to shovel (yes by hand with a shovel) out the load.
I would think in the days when every town had an agent they could co ordinate something. But yeah its in the work list. Any special handling for whatever reason.
In response to the YM, BNSF brings them up from the ranks still. Dont know why. Took all their authority from them and the TM runs them. You thought OT was bad in the day? Some of the moves they try usually gets a crew some OT. Switching is like Chess. Plan your moves and dont waste em.
Yes we are on time but this is yesterdays train