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1950 PRR Switching Layout Design--Dog, you were right

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1950 PRR Switching Layout Design--Dog, you were right
Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 10, 2007 12:26 AM

I posted this on the General board, but after it hit page 2 with no comments I figured I really should have put it here.  

Here it is, my 30" x 96" shelf/switching layout from a single LDE. I took this from 1938 aerial photos, 1916,1930 & 1950 Sanborn maps, selectively compressed it some, and fudged a little to make it work.  

Operations

Notes 

1) Everything backs in from the wye about two miles to the left of the layout.

2) I'm assuming that staging will extend the leads.

Ops

Passenger Service comes once a day and the passenger track must be clear when it arrives.

Freight arrives once a day. A switcher will break down the train and build the train for pick up. The freight engine drops cars and picks up cars. The switcher moves them. I don't have a good place for the cabin. Theoretically, it would have been dropped off the layout.

There are two "sorts" of cars. One that is set out on the visible layout. One that is to the south of the layout. The industries that are south of town are a lumber yard, a tire manufacturing plant, a glass manufacturer, a brewery, etc. There are two switchers in the "yard." One switches the visible area, and the other takes the other sort to staging.

Outgoing trains are made up of outgoing shipments of both visible and staged industries.

What am I missing? What is implausible? 

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, June 10, 2007 12:40 AM

DOUBLE check those switches. They will eat up length.

Double check those buildings. If you already have em GREAT! If you are going to build em, measure twice build once.

YOur trackwork near the staging is unnecessarily complicated. Try to cut down on the number of switches. Try to justify every single peice of track and mentally/or on paper work out each track and how it will be earning it's keep.

Did you just ternimate the mainline at the passenger station before it crosses water street? That mainline needs to keep going to the "East" of that track plan.

Remove that switch from the middle of Philadelpha street.

No wait.. on second thought leave that switch alone. But DO remove the set of tracks closest to the Stewarts Hardware row along Railroad ave.

Relocate the Buchanan Grocery warehouse to the corner of 9th and Water and have your dock on that track there. Give railroad ave some room to breath and you a way to reach the switches in case of derailment.

Scrap the one peice of track that was serving the current Buchanon Grocery, reverse the switch... and then...

#10 Passenger Station gets pulled out into the "South" by a small bulge intruding just a little bit into the people space.

Run a track from the switch at the former Buchanon location and then lay down track up to about where the orginal passenger station was and tie in somewhere along the main, that way you will have a run around.

One of your staging tracks is going to be used as a drill, I dont see any way around it.

If you dont understand any of this, let me know precisely and I will try again to explain my thoughts in the problem areas.

I think that is a good plan.

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Posted by NSlover92 on Sunday, June 10, 2007 12:47 AM
Well, any thread with PRR in the title I just have to check out. Approve [^] But on with it, over all I think it sounds good. But things I would change, is have a passenger train come twice, once morning then evenings, also I would have times when the line has to be clear, liek 5 times a day (or operating session) where a through frieght comes in. I may be mis-understanding what your trying to do but just my My 2 cents [2c]. Mike
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Posted by Dave-the-Train on Sunday, June 10, 2007 6:10 AM

Bearing in mind that I look at the layout with foriegn eyes...

You seem to be packing a lot in...

I would remove the loco house and put the auto unloading there.  Why would the RR confine an engine house in such a crowded/expensive location?

I have a question about backing trains in 2 miles from the wye... would passenger trains do this?  I know they are pushed into dead end stations but over 2 miles?  If you pull them in with the road engine they can be switched out by the yard engine(s) to release the road engine - push them back in with the switcher while the road engine gets serviced - remove the switcher and put the road engine back on.

I think that you would make life easier for yourself (and us) if you sketched out the tracks/yards not modelled... it will help you have a picture in your mind for where the traffic comes from and goes to - at least between the wye and the modelled track.

I'm glad that you are thinking about "off scene" tracks that create moves in the modelled scene.

Where do the road vehicles go in Railroad Avenue?  ... it's all track.

What are the tracks next to the hardware buildings (4) do?  Why the crossovers?  If it's a runround will it be long enough to do anything?

How does a passenger train work the passenger  station?  Would it be better to stretch the runround up toward the present freight station and make that the passenger station?  (making the passeneger station the freight station).

I think that carrying through one at least of the roads to the RH end would allow you to expand at some future time if you want.

Hope this helps

Tongue [:P]

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Sunday, June 10, 2007 7:40 AM

Well, you certainly are stuffing a lot in.  A couple of things about your sliding staging (traverser).  Assuming you are planning to have this against the wall, the first track can't be slid into position into position to mate up with the tracks to the right.  I would eliminate it. 

It appears that you are going to have to use tracks on the traverser for switching, so I would eliminate tracks 4, 5, and 6 and replace them with scenery and view block so that tracks 7 through 14 are hidden.  The hidden tracks would be your staging. 

I would put a turnout on track two about the middle of the traverser leading to track 3 (track 3 would start here).  This gives you more runaround flexibility.

Operations would start by pulling out the traverser so that a train can enter the scene to the right.  Once clear the traverser is pushed back so that the track and scenery at the front are now in play and you have the full 8 feet for operations.  When that train is ready to leave it is moved to the right and the traverser pulled out to its destination track. 

Even though its a busy plan visually, I think operationally it will be a lot of fun. 

Enjoy

Paul 

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Posted by exPalaceDog on Sunday, June 10, 2007 8:32 AM

Looking Good!

The coal trestle should make things interesting assuming that engines are NOT allowed on it.

The Dog would suggest replacing the engine house with something else unless you intend to base the gas-electric car there.

Working in a meat wholesale plant might provide additional interset.

Have fun

 

 

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 10, 2007 8:57 AM

Thanks guys.

I wanted to start by saying that the track plan is strictly from the prototype. I wanted to keep that is much as possible to that plan. The only piece of track I added is I extended the siding along Stewart's Hardware to make a small runaround. Nowhere in the prototype was one provided. In fact, the only way an engine could make a runaround move was the one crossover you see and the point where the two tracks merged a quarter mile south.

http://www.vitaconnect.com/photos/IndianaMap01.jpg

So here are my fudges. The tractor supply is on the other side of an alley beyond the feed supply. The flour mill is on the other side of the alley from the produce supply. The grocery warehose was on the other side of the street just south of Stewart's Hardware.

The trackwork between the station and the freight station was present in 1950, but not used. However, the prototype had a quarter mile of dual track to sort and switch. I didn't have that kind of space so I needed to restore the old track.

Oh yeah, the engine house was on the lower of the three tracks not the upper.

Of course, the layout has compressed space.

The only way to turn the train was the wye. And since the photos I have of the era shows the trains backed in, I asuumed they all did. At least this why I am doing it this way on my layout.

Chip

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:57 AM

Chip,

I LIKE IT!

Just a couple of addenda, starting with staging:

 IRONROOSTER wrote:

Well, you certainly are stuffing a lot in.  A couple of things about your sliding staging (traverser).  Assuming you are planning to have this against the wall, the first track can't be slid into position into position to mate up with the tracks to the right.  I would eliminate it. 

It appears that you are going to have to use tracks on the traverser for switching, so I would eliminate tracks 4, 5, and 6 and replace them with scenery and view block so that tracks 7 through 14 are hidden.  The hidden tracks would be your staging.

Or, you could save track 6 by putting in a vertical backdrop and hiding the lower edge with ground cover.  Logical place for a true-to-prototype photomural.

 

I would put a turnout on track two about the middle of the traverser leading to track 3 (track 3 would start here).  This gives you more runaround flexibility.

Or, make it a crossover, and use the left end spur as an engine pocket for the road loco while the switcher is swapping consists.

Operations would start by pulling out the traverser so that a train can enter the scene to the right.  Once clear the traverser is pushed back so that the track and scenery at the front are now in play and you have the full 8 feet for operations.  When that train is ready to leave it is moved to the right and the traverser pulled out to its destination track. 

Even though its a busy plan visually, I think operationally it will be a lot of fun. 

Enjoy

Paul 

As for the consists, I could see this as a home for a local diesel switcher, with G5 passenger power and H9 or L1 freight.  As for the cabin, unless there are automobiles to be spotted or you're on the passenger train's time, it could be left standing adjacent to the passenger station, which would make life easier for both the conductor and the station agent (who have plenty of paperwork to shuffle and swap.)

If you set up a timetable and operate to it (sequential ops or fast clock) this plan should keep a solo op (or even a pair of ops) hopping!  Incidentally, I concur with the two passenger train schedule.  Those commuters who leave in the morning have to come home in the evening.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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Posted by reklein on Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:06 AM
Somehow I feel snookered.As you didn't say it was based on  a prototype .Smile [:)]However I did find it to be a really interesting plan. My first impression was to say that it should be closer to 16' long but not many of us have that kind of space. I have no criticism of the plan itself cause I have no idea how to design track plans. I usually shop plans til I'm blue in the face and then wind up modifying the plan to fit my space. After a few months I find myself thinking"well,I should have done this and this and so on." Anyways thanks for throwing that out there for us to ponder.
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Posted by Kurt_Laughlin on Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:27 AM

As a prototype PRR layout plan myself, I won't suggest any changes to the trackage.  Fact is better than fiction in many cases.

I would recommend that you check the ability of the trackage to place cars properly at the industries.  For example, I believe the real RR rule of thumb was to allow a half a car length past the desired spot on dead end spurs to avoid hard stops against bumpers and allow for variations in car length (such as Duryea sills).  Although you may have room to put a car in a particular position, will that put the car door in a place that is a realistic location for a building door?

Also, verify that realisticly placed cars will not foul tracks, for example on Railroad Avenue.

PRR owned tracks (as by the depot and car platform and the engine yard) would most likely terminate with PRR concrete bumpers - especially because an overrun would enter a public street.  Make sure you leave enough room for a sidewalk between the bumper and the street as well.  (A brick sidewalk if PRR property.)

It looks like you coal trestle will have a pretty steep grade, considering that the leading switch will have to be level (for good operation) and the far end will need a level length to accomodate an 33-ft hopper, more if the yard sells more than one type of coal.  (On mine I went with a flat track and under-car conveyor to put the products - two grades of antracite, one grade of bituminous - in bins for this reason.)

Where's the park with the two WW I cannons?

Where did you get your Sanborn maps?

KL 

 

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Posted by Kurt_Laughlin on Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:32 AM

BTW, is the engine house prototypical?  The map layout looks like your typical public (team) track.

 KL

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Posted by exPalaceDog on Sunday, June 10, 2007 11:00 AM

Some additional thoughts.

Change the "auto" unloading platfrom to warp around the end of the track giving an "end" unloading platform. That would provide a place to unload items such as farm machinery, construction equipment, and heavier trucks such as coal dump trucks.

Pave the are between the passenger and freight station. That will provide some "team" track space.

Expand the coal trestle to also handle products like road salt. The home coal business would be on the wane by that point, the company would be looking for other lines of business.

As stated above, add a meat wholesaler the provide an excuse to run packing house reefers.

Sell the freight station to the local beer distributor to provide a home for some brewery reefers.

Expand the scope of the hardware store to be a contractors' and farmers' supply

Have fun 

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Posted by ereimer on Sunday, June 10, 2007 11:32 AM

i really like Ironrooster's suggestion , it turns a 6' layout with staging into an 8' layout with hidden staging . a huge improvement !  (i'm estimating the size based on your drawing , feel free to correct my numbers)

 

on a very practical note ... i know you're planning on doing this partially to fill time until you can get working on the basement empire 1900's layout , but it looks to me like this layout is going to require a lot of buildings for it's size , many of which will have to be scratchbuilt if you're planning to stick as close to the prototype as possible .

are you going to have time to build this before you want to get started on the big layout ?

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Posted by TheK4Kid on Sunday, June 10, 2007 11:37 AM

Hi Spacemouse!

 You always seem to come up with a lot of great ideas.

Okay, how about lending me part of your capabilities?

 I am working  on a PRR HO layout.

 I have the outer loop of trackbed layed already, I am using WS foam roadbed on top of 2 inch thick pink foam, with the under frame being a boxed in bed lattice type framework..

 My total table top layout is 3 sections put end to end.

They are EACH 6 foot wide by 8 feet long, for a total of 6 feet by 24 feet.

It sets 42 inches high off the flloor.

It can easily be dismanteld and moved if ever necessary.

 Lightweight, yet very strong, legs are 2x4s, and each one cross braced.

ALSO- it is TOTALLY a WALK-AROUND layout in a basement room that is about 13 by 31 feet, with ample room to work all around.

There is room for  future expansion, going around the outside wall of the room and back onto the table.

 

Okay, I debating on a center divider-backdrop, or maybe even build the center as a mountain, with the trains able to go through a mountain pass or tunnels and from one side of the layout to the other.

I am also definetly going to put a second mainline loop all the way around the table  also.

Okay, how about throwing in some ideas, if it were you, what would you do.

 I will also add that I have a brand new in the box Walthers HO 130 foot turntable with matching round house kit, and all the various steam era maintenace buildings, ash pit, etc.

 It will be LATE 1940's to late 1950's era.

Track is code 100 , and I have a lot of flex track to use up and various Atlas switches.

I have played with many ideas, but simply am inviting a some outside ideas.

Anyone is welcome to toss in various ideas.

My basement is VERY DRY, this being an OVERBUILT home built by a building contractor for he and his family originally, and is about 20 years old.

He later built another home elsewhere.

By overbuilt I mean everything is better than it needs to be, extra rafters, etc.

Basement staircase is SOLID OAK, and after 20 years, absolutely NO SQUEAKS< GROANS< ETC!!! 

 I may later on extend my 3 car garage, and divide it, and put my trains where my 3 car bays are at now., plus heat and air condition it.

 Garage is 23 by 40 feet.

It is totally insulated right now, with a hanging gas heater.

 

 Okay, I'm open to ideas.

 

 Thanks guys!

 

 Ed 

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Posted by TheK4Kid on Sunday, June 10, 2007 11:52 AM

STEWART and COMPANY HARDWARE

 

 HOW INTERESTING!!!!!

 Spacemose , is this a picture of Indiana Pennsylvania?

If so, do you know whose family owned and operated Stewart and Co. Hardware?

 

Known for his affectionate smile, and mild manner, and considered one of the best actors who ever made movies, none other than the late James " Jimmy" Stewart"

 He was born and raised in Indiana Pennsylvania.

There is a statue of him there, and also an entire section of "The US Army 8th Air Force Museum" in Savannah Georgia dedicated to him.

 He flew  B-24 bombers in world war two, and made 20 combat missions over enemy territory.

He finally retired from te military in the  1960's as a Brigadier General in the Air Force Reserve. 

I just read a really great book about him titled "Jimmy Stewart Bomber Pilot"

 In it it has a picture of him working in this very hardware store!! 

Wow, what a coincidence and what a neat picture!!!!

 

 Ed 

 

  

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 10, 2007 12:18 PM
 Safety Valve wrote:

DOUBLE check those switches. They will eat up length.

Thanks for your effort SV. Those are NMRA #4, the same as the Fastracks Jig I have.

Double check those buildings. If you already have em GREAT! If you are going to build em, measure twice build once.

All will have to be scratchbuilt. Maybe a third are standing. Pictures are hard to come by. I plan to build cardboard replicas until I can tackle each.

Your trackwork near the staging is unnecessarily complicated. Try to cut down on the number of switches. Try to justify every single peice of track and mentally/or on paper work out each track and how it will be earning it's keep.

Did you just ternimate the mainline at the passenger station before it crosses water street? That mainline needs to keep going to the "East" of that track plan.

Remove that switch from the middle of Philadelpha street.

No wait.. on second thought leave that switch alone. But DO remove the set of tracks closest to the Stewart's Hardware row along Railroad ave.

Relocate the Buchanan Grocery warehouse to the corner of 9th and Water and have your dock on that track there. Give railroad ave some room to breath and you a way to reach the switches in case of derailment.

Scrap the one peice of track that was serving the current Buchanon Grocery, reverse the switch... and then...

#10 Passenger Station gets pulled out into the "South" by a small bulge intruding just a little bit into the people space.

Run a track from the switch at the former Buchanon location and then lay down track up to about where the orginal passenger station was and tie in somewhere along the main, that way you will have a run around.

One of your staging tracks is going to be used as a drill, I dont see any way around it.

If you dont understand any of this, let me know precisely and I will try again to explain my thoughts in the problem areas.

I think that is a good plan.

As noted above, I followed trackwork of the prototype. The passenger station is the end of the line. There is no east. I could persuaded to lose the produce company. It was the biggest fudge I did. I figured staging would be the drill. I may just build a single track drill/fold down until I get the staging worked out. I won't have room for staging until the shelving under the basement layout is complete anyway.

  

Chip

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 10, 2007 12:21 PM

 NSlover92 wrote:
Well, any thread with PRR in the title I just have to check out. Approve [^] But on with it, over all I think it sounds good. But things I would change, is have a passenger train come twice, once morning then evenings, also I would have times when the line has to be clear, liek 5 times a day (or operating session) where a through frieght comes in. I may be mis-understanding what your trying to do but just my My 2 cents [2c]. Mike

Thanks. I'll keep it in mind. I won't really settle anything about the until I've run it a few times. 

Chip

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 10, 2007 12:53 PM
 Dave-the-Train wrote:

Bearing in mind that I look at the layout with foriegn eyes...

You seem to be packing a lot in...

I would remove the loco house and put the auto unloading there.  Why would the RR confine an engine house in such a crowded/expensive location?

It wasn't there in the 1916 Sanborn map shown, but it was there in the 1938 aerial photo. I left it in, because I couldn't figure out what the PRR would have done with their switcher. There was a siding next to the wye that could have been used in 1950, but...

At any rate on my layout, I have to house them somewhere. It's unlikely they would have been stored outside in the snow. It could have just been a roof with open sides. But the map says engine house. 

I have a question about backing trains in 2 miles from the wye... would passenger trains do this?  I know they are pushed into dead end stations but over 2 miles?  If you pull them in with the road engine they can be switched out by the yard engine(s) to release the road engine - push them back in with the switcher while the road engine gets serviced - remove the switcher and put the road engine back on.

I'm pretty sure they backed in. At least the two photos above show that and there were no other ways to turn an engine.  

I think that you would make life easier for yourself (and us) if you sketched out the tracks/yards not modelled... it will help you have a picture in your mind for where the traffic comes from and goes to - at least between the wye and the modelled track.

I'm glad that you are thinking about "off scene" tracks that create moves in the modelled scene.

I have the aerial photos and Sanborn maps back that far.

Where do the road vehicles go in Railroad Avenue?  ... it's all track.

As you can see by the map, there was room to the east of the tracks in the prototype, but the real traffic would have traveled along 8th Street which was behind the PRR station. 

What are the tracks next to the hardware buildings (4) do?  Why the crossovers?  If it's a runaround will it be long enough to do anything?

You can see in the prototype that there was no runaround and the track that was provided serviced both the hardware store (which was also building supplies) and the grocery distributor. The way they did it must have been to switch some industries in one direction, run clear around the quarter mile run around, then switch the other direction. Even so, the cars going into the grocery would have gone in one at a time, and others pulled would come out one at a time. My small runaround at least allows me to pull the cars at one time and set cars in as singles. Which I have only room for one anyway.

How does a passenger train work the passenger  station?  Would it be better to stretch the runround up toward the present freight station and make that the passenger station?  (making the passeneger station the freight station).

I think that carrying through one at least of the roads to the RH end would allow you to expand at some future time if you want.

Hope this helps

Tongue [:P]

Thanks.

Chip

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Posted by TheK4Kid on Sunday, June 10, 2007 12:54 PM

Hi Spacemouse,

 I noticed on your avatar you are from Indiana PA, so you probably already know about Jimmy Stewart.

Hey you should have the hardware store with a caricature of Jimmy Stewart waving to everyone!

 

 Have a great day!

 Ed 

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 10, 2007 1:09 PM
 IRONROOSTER wrote:

Well, you certainly are stuffing a lot in.  A couple of things about your sliding staging (traverser).  Assuming you are planning to have this against the wall, the first track can't be slid into position into position to mate up with the tracks to the right.  I would eliminate it. 

I figured that out after I posted it. 

It appears that you are going to have to use tracks on the traverser for switching, so I would eliminate tracks 4, 5, and 6 and replace them with scenery and view block so that tracks 7 through 14 are hidden.  The hidden tracks would be your staging.

Brilliant! The Buchannan Grocery Wholesale literally takes up that whole block. I can put it back where it belongs and it would be the scene break. I just put up the "front" and roof of the building and staging can run through the building and behind it. Brilliant! 

I would put a turnout on track two about the middle of the traverser leading to track 3 (track 3 would start here).  This gives you more runaround flexibility.

Operations would start by pulling out the traverser so that a train can enter the scene to the right.  Once clear the traverser is pushed back so that the track and scenery at the front are now in play and you have the full 8 feet for operations.  When that train is ready to leave it is moved to the right and the traverser pulled out to its destination track. 

Even though its a busy plan visually, I think operationally it will be a lot of fun. 

Enjoy

Paul 

Thanks the ops I see are pretty much as you describe.

Chip

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 10, 2007 1:16 PM
 exPalaceDog wrote:

Looking Good!

The coal trestle should make things interesting assuming that engines are NOT allowed on it.

The Dog would suggest replacing the engine house with something else unless you intend to base the gas-electric car there.

Working in a meat wholesale plant might provide additional interest.

Have fun

NO engines on the trestle--got it.

The gas-electric was history in 1940. I have an E-7 that will service the area. The engines that will stay on the layout are a pair of S1's. The engine house is there to keep snow off of them. I'm not sure what the PRR did. Maybe some of you PRR fans can clue me in.

I'm pretty sure the meat would have come in through the wholesale grocer.

Chip

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Posted by exPalaceDog on Sunday, June 10, 2007 1:19 PM
 SpaceMouse wrote:

It wasn't there in the 1916 Sanborn map shown, but it was there in the 1938 aerial photo. I left it in, because I couldn't figure out what the PRR would have done with their switcher. There was a siding next to the wye that could have been used in 1950, but...

At any rate on my layout, I have to house them somewhere. It's unlikely they would have been stored outside in the snow. It could have just been a roof with open sides. But the map says engine house. 

This is just a guess, but the Old Dog would picture freight on the Indiana Secondary as being operated as a "turn". The engine and train would operate from their home terminal to the junction, then run down the branch and return in one shift. Hence, there would be no need to store the engine at Indiana.

Depending on how the gas-electric was operated, there might have been a need to store it at Indiana especially if it just ran back and fore on the branch. Since the maintenance requirements for the gas-electric would have been somewhat unique, sending it to the roundhouse might have been of limited value.

Have fun

 

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 10, 2007 1:21 PM
 tomikawaTT wrote:

Chip,

I LIKE IT!

Just a couple of addenda, starting with staging:

 IRONROOSTER wrote:

Well, you certainly are stuffing a lot in.  A couple of things about your sliding staging (traverser).  Assuming you are planning to have this against the wall, the first track can't be slid into position into position to mate up with the tracks to the right.  I would eliminate it. 

It appears that you are going to have to use tracks on the traverser for switching, so I would eliminate tracks 4, 5, and 6 and replace them with scenery and view block so that tracks 7 through 14 are hidden.  The hidden tracks would be your staging.

Or, you could save track 6 by putting in a vertical backdrop and hiding the lower edge with ground cover.  Logical place for a true-to-prototype photomural.

 

I would put a turnout on track two about the middle of the traverser leading to track 3 (track 3 would start here).  This gives you more runaround flexibility.

Or, make it a crossover, and use the left end spur as an engine pocket for the road loco while the switcher is swapping consists.

Operations would start by pulling out the traverser so that a train can enter the scene to the right.  Once clear the traverser is pushed back so that the track and scenery at the front are now in play and you have the full 8 feet for operations.  When that train is ready to leave it is moved to the right and the traverser pulled out to its destination track. 

Even though its a busy plan visually, I think operationally it will be a lot of fun. 

Enjoy

Paul 

As for the consists, I could see this as a home for a local diesel switcher, with G5 passenger power and H9 or L1 freight.  As for the cabin, unless there are automobiles to be spotted or you're on the passenger train's time, it could be left standing adjacent to the passenger station, which would make life easier for both the conductor and the station agent (who have plenty of paperwork to shuffle and swap.)

If you set up a timetable and operate to it (sequential ops or fast clock) this plan should keep a solo op (or even a pair of ops) hopping!  Incidentally, I concur with the two passenger train schedule.  Those commuters who leave in the morning have to come home in the evening.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

I like the idea of spotting the cab at the depot. I'll think more about the two passenger trains. The terminus is only about 15 miles from the PRR main.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 10, 2007 1:23 PM

 reklein wrote:
Somehow I feel snookered.As you didn't say it was based on  a prototype .Smile [:)]However I did find it to be a really interesting plan. My first impression was to say that it should be closer to 16' long but not many of us have that kind of space. I have no criticism of the plan itself cause I have no idea how to design track plans. I usually shop plans til I'm blue in the face and then wind up modifying the plan to fit my space. After a few months I find myself thinking"well,I should have done this and this and so on." Anyways thanks for throwing that out there for us to ponder.

You're right I didn't actually come out and say it, but I did say that it was taken from aerial photos and Sanborn maps. Thanks for the complement.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 10, 2007 1:27 PM
 Kurt_Laughlin wrote:

As a prototype PRR layout plan myself, I won't suggest any changes to the trackage.  Fact is better than fiction in many cases.

I would recommend that you check the ability of the trackage to place cars properly at the industries.  For example, I believe the real RR rule of thumb was to allow a half a car length past the desired spot on dead end spurs to avoid hard stops against bumpers and allow for variations in car length (such as Duryea sills).  Although you may have room to put a car in a particular position, will that put the car door in a place that is a realistic location for a building door?

Also, verify that realisticly placed cars will not foul tracks, for example on Railroad Avenue.

PRR owned tracks (as by the depot and car platform and the engine yard) would most likely terminate with PRR concrete bumpers - especially because an overrun would enter a public street.  Make sure you leave enough room for a sidewalk between the bumper and the street as well.  (A brick sidewalk if PRR property.)

It looks like you coal trestle will have a pretty steep grade, considering that the leading switch will have to be level (for good operation) and the far end will need a level length to accomodate an 33-ft hopper, more if the yard sells more than one type of coal.  (On mine I went with a flat track and under-car conveyor to put the products - two grades of antracite, one grade of bituminous - in bins for this reason.)

Where's the park with the two WW I cannons?

Where did you get your Sanborn maps?

KL 

Thanks for the prototype hints. I don't have much rolling stock yet, so I hope I won't make too big a mistake.

I haven't worked out much on the coal trestle. I may have to dig beneath it.

Sorry, no cannons.

Check your email.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 10, 2007 1:34 PM
 Kurt_Laughlin wrote:

BTW, is the engine house prototypical?  The map layout looks like your typical public (team) track.

 KL

The engine house was listed on and off the Sanborn Maps (as if it was not being used.) I could see it in the 1938 aerial photos. I may just make it a shed roof.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, June 10, 2007 1:40 PM

Ok, Keep the Grocer. You need those reefers.

Someone posted about the Brewhouse buying the freight station, why not just serve the brew house via the freight station? The purpose of this freight station is to serve customers without a direct rail link.

The only thing that is left is the mass of switches on Railroad AVE. And you need a run around worthy of the name. Because you might need a handle of a few cars to get the hopper up onto the coal trestle.

Cheers.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 10, 2007 1:43 PM
 ereimer wrote:

i really like Ironrooster's suggestion , it turns a 6' layout with staging into an 8' layout with hidden staging . a huge improvement !  (i'm estimating the size based on your drawing , feel free to correct my numbers)

I really like it too. The layout is 30"x96" with 48" staging.

on a very practical note ... i know you're planning on doing this partially to fill time until you can get working on the basement empire 1900's layout , but it looks to me like this layout is going to require a lot of buildings for it's size , many of which will have to be scratchbuilt if you're planning to stick as close to the prototype as possible .

are you going to have time to build this before you want to get started on the big layout ?

I see this as a break for working on the 1880's and a way to run my early PRR desiels left over from my club days. I will have to scratch everything. Some of the buildings are really cool. I plan to make cardboard mock-ups and replace them as I get the urge. Eventually, when I get the access for the entire basement (when my 90-year-old mother-in-law moves on) This will move into my newly vacated office. I'm not in a hurry other than getting things running track-wise. I also plan a couple experiments on this layout that will determine how I handle certain aspects of the basement layout. Right now, the basement layout is moving foreward, but I am a long way from running trains. 

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Rimrock, Arizona
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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 10, 2007 1:47 PM
 TheK4Kid wrote:

Hi Spacemouse,

 I noticed on your avatar you are from Indiana PA, so you probably already know about Jimmy Stewart.

Hey you should have the hardware store with a caricature of Jimmy Stewart waving to everyone!

 

 Have a great day!

 Ed 

Yes, I am lucky that where I live turns out to be so interesting. I tried looking at a couple other areas, but my downtown area just kept getting better the more I looked at it.

To get the best help on your layout, you should start your own thread. Post what you have done so far. What kind of research have youd done?

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Rimrock, Arizona
  • 11,251 posts
Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, June 10, 2007 1:59 PM
 exPalaceDog wrote:

Some additional thoughts.

Change the "auto" unloading platfrom to warp around the end of the track giving an "end" unloading platform. That would provide a place to unload items such as farm machinery, construction equipment, and heavier trucks such as coal dump trucks.

All above the above are provided for by the layout in other ways with the exception of the coal trucks. The real traffic for this branch are the huge coal mines in the area. There is so much traffic that three railroads work the area, the Buffalo, Rochester, & Pittsburgh (with B & O having trackage rights), the Cambridge and Indiana, once known for being the richest small railroad in the world because they bought and leased coal cars to the rest of the nation, and the PRR. They would have unloaded the trucks and equipment right at the mines. These mine are/were huge.  

Pave the are between the passenger and freight station. That will provide some "team" track space.

The PRR thought it was a good idea. I was planning on doing it too.

Expand the coal trestle to also handle products like road salt. The home coal business would be on the wane by that point, the company would be looking for other lines of business.

As stated above, add a meat wholesaler the provide an excuse to run packing house reefers.

Sell the freight station to the local beer distributor to provide a home for some brewery reefers.

The Indiana Brewery was about 5 blocks south. I'll have the refers dropped off with the grain, etc. When the local switcher goes out. 

Expand the scope of the hardware store to be a contractors' and farmers' supply

Have fun 

Stewart's Hardware was four separate buildings. Two of the buildings were contractor and building supplies. The Farms supply is on the north end of the layout.

Good ideas Dog.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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