Compromise Junction

[Zandoz]

Givens:

• N scale
• Must be designed to be constructed and used on a 42"x62" dining room table. 
• Must be easily moveable..."Dirtywork" must be done outside on picnic table.
• Maximum length before fascia:  74" (~!@#$%^& odd sized door!)
• Maximum width before fascia:  48"
• In it's normal position, when facing the front/long edge of the layout, access to the left end and rear will be limited...the layout will be viewed and mostly operated from the front/long and right sides
• Kato Unitrack main (already have a bunch).  Sidings and hidden track are open for discussion
• Santa Fe line (I have Kato SF F3 & F7, and a Super Chief set A)

Druthers:

• 50s through early 60s period.
• Midwest small town theme...More or less Kansas or so...grain elevator, oil & coal dealer, small passenger and freight depots, team track, etc.
• Continuous operation
• I'm not big on strict prototype adherence...and definitely not a rivet counter.  The fact that the SF Super Chief would not have been stopping at a small town depot in the Midwest does not worry me.  In my little world it will. 
• Diesels...about the only likely steam might be a little 0-6-0 switcher, and even that would be dependant on finding one with an excellent reliability rep. and DCC friendly.
• My interest in switching is limited to servicing the locals...a formal yard, turntables, and such...and their associated operation does not have a lot of appeal given the small modeling real estate.
• With this size layout, and my budget, I don't envision my fleet as getting very big...A couple of small local relevant freight consists, the Super Chiefs, and local switcher
• Mainline curve radius and track spacing sufficient to reliably run the 85' Super Chiefs...more or less set on 15" minimum for any visible main, with the more 19 & 28-1/4 radii the better.
• A plan conducive to building a mainline loop first, then as time permits replacing sections with turnouts for sidings, interchange, and staging.  (Thus the Unitrack...their turnouts are "plug-in" replacements for their curve and straight sections).
• Since I first got interested in model railroading 20-some years ago, one RR scene has stuck in my head...an embankment elevated track passing over "River Rd" on a thru-girder bridge, and across the river/stream via a thru-truss bridge.  I know...I know...silly...but some how I just have to make it fit.
• If possible, I'd like to make the off-scene staging...possibly coverable and relatively kitty proof, so I don't have to remove the rolling stock between sessions...the fewer times handled, the few chances for oooopppps.
• This is likely to be a single operator set up.

The Genesis

Compromise is a quiet little midwestern farm town situated in a valley along the winding Little Trickle River, just across the border in the Twilight Zone.   What makes this little burg stand out is that it happens to be the meeting point of the Santa Fe and the Hither Thither & Yon (HT&Y) railroads.  The HT&Y meets the single track main of the Santa Fe, as they cross a unique three track V-shaped stone arch bridge on the west edge of town.  The HT&Y services the town's rail-dependent businesses...the grain elevator, coal yard, and oil supplier.  Just pass the ornate WPA constructed Art Deco overpass mid-town, is the brick "County Seat" style Santa Fe depot...the stop-over point of the infamous Santa Fe Mini Chiefs.  Leaving the eastern side of town, the Santa Fe continues to skirt the banks of the Little Trickle, and the HT&Y crosses over the river on an old single-track truss bridge.

Since Compromise is located in the Twilight Zone, it is subject to the mysterious effects of folded and compressed space.....

Commence firing!

 

[Texas Zepher]

The fact that the SF Super Chief would not have been stopping at a small town depot in the Midwest does not worry me.

Not necessarily true.  I know that it stopped in Granada Colorado once.  Granada is population 600 or so.

I don't envision my fleet as getting very big...the Super Chiefs

Any place the SuperChief went there would be a host of passenger trains. Is that what you mean by Chiefs plural?   In fact here is a passenger schedule for a small eastern Kansas town. Because of how close the SuperChiefs are it has to be fairly close to Newton Kansas where the east and west Supers met.  Since it has the Antelope and the Scout I would say it is from the 1940s rather than the 1950s (The Scout was replace by the SanFrancisco Cheif in 1954) but the point is made:

12:21am No. 23 Westbound Grand Canyon Limited
12:29am No 19 Westbound The Chief
12:49am No. 9 Westbound Centennial State
1:12am No. 27 Westbound The Antelope
1:35am No. 20 Eastbound Chief
s2:32am No. 24 Eastbound Grand Canyon Limited
2:57am No. 17 Westbound SUPER CHIEF
3:26am No. 18 Eastbound SUPER CHIEF
3:14am No. 21 Westbound El Capitan
3:28am No. 28 Eastbound The Antelope
4:33am No. 10 Eastbound Centennial State
11:23am No. 7 Westbound Fast Mail Express
12:24pm No. 1 Westbound The Scout
f 2:30pm No. 3 Westbound California Limited
4:02pm No. 4 Eastbound California Limited
4:08 pm 4:17 pm No. 52 Eastbound passenger local
4:08pm 4:17 pm No.. 56 Eastbound Mixed
4:14pm No. 8 Eastbound Fast Mail Express
4:52 am No. 51 Westbound local
4:52am No. 55 Westbound Mixed
5:48pm No. 2 Eastbound The Scout
8:55pm No. 22 Eastbound El Capitan

Since I first got interested in model railroading 20-some years ago, one RR scene has stuck in my head...an embankment elevated track passing over "River Rd" on a thru-girder bridge, and across the river/stream via a thru-truss bridge.  I know...I know...silly...but some how I just have to make it fit.

This almost sounds exactly like the description of a  how a crossing of highway 50 on the east end of Peabody Kansas used to be.  I think it was the Frisco RR, but it was "the scene".

Haven't had time to analyze the layout yet.  These were just my first thoughts on the write up. 

 

[Texas Zepher]

OK, I've looked at the track plan a bit.

1. What is the purpose of the funny extremely short passing siding and single ended spurs in between the Santa Fe and H&TY main lines?  I can't think of any purpose such tracks would be used for (real or model).  A run around for the industries?  Why not just use the Santa Fe main for that.

2. There is no interchange track with the Santa Fe.

3. The double crossover in the top center seems to be a waste.  Why would one want to go from one single ended spur to another?

4.  The grain elevator was usually (always) parallel to the railroad's main line.

To get more room for the industry tracks and take out some of the curvature you could use a crossover putting the two turnouts to industries frog-to-frog instead of point-to-point. 

[Zandoz]

The fact that the SF Super Chief would not have been stopping at a small town depot in the Midwest does not worry me.

Not necessarily true.  I know that it stopped in Granada Colorado once.  Granada is population 600 or so.

I don't envision my fleet as getting very big...the Super Chiefs

Any place the SuperChief went there would be a host of passenger trains. Is that what you mean by Chiefs plural?   In fact here is a passenger schedule for a small eastern Kansas town. Because of how close the SuperChiefs are it has to be fairly close to Newton Kansas where the east and west Supers met.  Since it has the Antelope and the Scout I would say it is from the 1940s rather than the 1950s (The Scout was replace by the SanFrancisco Cheif in 1954) but the point is made:

12:21am No. 23 Westbound Grand Canyon Limited
12:29am No 19 Westbound The Chief
12:49am No. 9 Westbound Centennial State
1:12am No. 27 Westbound The Antelope
1:35am No. 20 Eastbound Chief
s2:32am No. 24 Eastbound Grand Canyon Limited
2:57am No. 17 Westbound SUPER CHIEF
3:26am No. 18 Eastbound SUPER CHIEF
3:14am No. 21 Westbound El Capitan
3:28am No. 28 Eastbound The Antelope
4:33am No. 10 Eastbound Centennial State
11:23am No. 7 Westbound Fast Mail Express
12:24pm No. 1 Westbound The Scout
f 2:30pm No. 3 Westbound California Limited
4:02pm No. 4 Eastbound California Limited
4:08 pm 4:17 pm No. 52 Eastbound passenger local
4:08pm 4:17 pm No.. 56 Eastbound Mixed
4:14pm No. 8 Eastbound Fast Mail Express
4:52 am No. 51 Westbound local
4:52am No. 55 Westbound Mixed
5:48pm No. 2 Eastbound The Scout
8:55pm No. 22 Eastbound El Capitan

Since I first got interested in model railroading 20-some years ago, one RR scene has stuck in my head...an embankment elevated track passing over "River Rd" on a thru-girder bridge, and across the river/stream via a thru-truss bridge.  I know...I know...silly...but some how I just have to make it fit.

This almost sounds exactly like the description of a  how a crossing of highway 50 on the east end of Peabody Kansas used to be.  I think it was the Frisco RR, but it was "the scene".

Haven't had time to analyze the layout yet.  These were just my first thoughts on the write up. 

 

Interesting...when I first "put out there" the idea of the Super Chiefs stopping at a small town station I was told "It would never happen"....and I kind of figured that anyway.  On the river crossing, you said "used to be"...is it gone now?

[Zandoz]

OK, I've looked at the track plan a bit.

1. What is the purpose of the funny extremely short passing siding and single ended spurs in between the Santa Fe and H&TY main lines?  I can't think of any purpose such tracks would be used for (real or model).  A run around for the industries? Why not just use the Santa Fe main for that.

The little short spur on the right between the two lines is meant to be home for a little local switcher, and possibly someday do double duty as a programming track if I take the DCC plunge.  The other is simply a place to park a few outgoing empties waiting to be picked up. Yes, it's a small run around for the industries.  The reason for not using the Santa Fe loop is that I was trying to arrange it so that a train could be passing through the scene while switching was going on in the OY&B inner route.

2. There is no interchange track with the Santa Fe.

Yeah...I know.   I know this whole thing turned out to be a huge mental fudge-factor leap, even from my totally fictional scenario.   Basically I'm looking at the whole thing as a twice/thrice-around with switches.... with both lines sharing the upper half of the loop colored as Santa Fe for staging. The Santa Fe Mini Chief's come out of staging on the right or left, pass through the scene non-stop, continue on the track across the river on the bridge to begin the second loop. After stopping at the station, the Mini Chief returns to staging on the opposite side entered from. The OY&B's path would be the thrice around, with the middle pass taking the inner loop coming off the bridge, stopping for drop off and pick up, then making a final through loop before taking the staging route. Cornball and contrived? Yeah. But so far the only way I've been able to come up with. 

3. The double crossover in the top center seems to be a waste.  Why would one want to go from one single ended spur to another?

I consider those top two spurs staging...a train leaving staging from one spur will end up heading into staging the opposite spur.  The double crossover allows it to back into it's original home to be ready to head out again.  Another reason for the double crossover is economy...with Unitrack it's both more space and cost effective.  With Unitrack, parallel siding made with a regular #6 turnout ends up with a track spacing just shy of 2"...the double cross over around a half inch less...in a shorter span, allowing more length for both of those staging spurs.  Cost wise, I can get the double crossover for not that much more than two #6s and their controllers.  I'm both space and dollar poor in this endeavor...every little bit helps.

4.  The grain elevator was usually (always) parallel to the railroad's main line.

Yup...I know...grew up between two of them.  This is yet another manifestation of Compromise Junction's folded and compressed space...couldn't come up with any way to keep it parallel with the main without sacrificing either the bridges or one of the siding turnouts and it's industries.  Plus having the tallest structure sitting that close to the forefront would kind of overwhelm everything else.  At least there it is roughly half way back into the scene.

To get more room for the industry tracks and take out some of the curvature you could use a crossover putting the two turnouts to industries frog-to-frog instead of point-to-point. 

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, that would end up with the two spurs having to cross each other, going to the opposite side of the scene from where they branched off the main.  This is something I've seen with other types of track, but Unitrack's turnouts have 15 degrees of curvature through the frog...resulting in the need for a 30 degree crossing.  Kato makes no such animal, and as near as I can tell based on the XtrkCad parameter files for Peco code 55, neither do they.  Going with Atlas code 80 would get a 30-degree crossing, but lose the availability of the space saving curved turnouts, and the better appearance of the code 55.  Do you have some idea of where I could go beyond the crossing that would be much different than what I have now?  I'm not seeing it...but then again I've been in major brain-lock over this.

At this point I am far from married to this plan...or even that happy with it...but every time I start over with the broad curves, the bridge scene, and a bit of hidden staging, I keep winding up with variations of the same theme, that are not very different. Please keep the ideas and suggestions coming...I can sure use them.

[Texas Zepher]

On the river crossing, you said "used to be"...is it gone now?

Yes, I tried to find it on a map so I could list the exact spot and point a satellite map to it.  But - can't find it.

[Texas Zepher]

Yup...I know...grew up between two of them (grain elevators).

Oh really, where abouts?

To get more room for the industry tracks and take out some of the curvature you could use a crossover putting the two turnouts to industries frog-to-frog instead of point-to-point. 

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, that would end up with the two spurs having to cross each other, going to the opposite side of the scene from where they branched off the main.

Yes, that is exactly what I mean.

This is something I've seen with other types of track, but Unitrack's turnouts have 15 degrees of curvature through the frog...resulting in the need for a 30 degree crossing.  Kato makes no such animal,

Yow, I had no idea the Unitrack was so limited.

Do you have some idea of where I could go beyond the crossing that would be much different than what I have now?

Not exactly but for starters I was thinking I would immediately turn one track back parallel with the main for the grain elevator.

[Zandoz]

Thanks for looking into it further.  I was thinking of taking a shot at it on Google Earth, but it sounds like that is likely to be fruitless.

[Zandoz]

Yup...I know...grew up between two of them (grain elevators).

Oh really, where abouts?

Not on the Santa Fe...A small town in NW Ohio called Defiance.  I grew up a couple hundred feet from the old Wabash line...walked the tracks to and from school for the first 8 grades.  Now that I think about it, at one point there were 3 elevators near by.  From our house, there was a Landmark grain elevator about 3 blocks one way, a small modern Honegger's Grain Elevator on the opposite side of the tracks (built on property bought from my uncle), and a big old alfalfa mill/elevator a couple blocks in the other direction.  The incinerator where they used to burn the pallets abandoned in cars was a block or so away...the guys used to leave a few "good ones" set aside for us kids.  We made everything from pigeon coops to soapbox racers out of them.  The railroad junk pile (next to the speeder shed) was also a couple blocks from home...it was always good for some cool treasures.  We were also within walking distance of the Wabash's junction with the B&O, and the B&O passenger and freight stations.  That bridge scene I'm fixated on was 2 blocks from the grade school.  Also in my railroad playground were 2 coal yards, an oil depot, grocery and produce warehouses, an ice cream plant, a muffler plant, and a fiberglass plant...and that was just on the within walking distance part of the Wabash.  I'd love to be able to model that area, but to do it justice, or even make it remotely recognizable, it would take more space and $$$ than I'll ever have.

To get more room for the industry tracks and take out some of the curvature you could use a crossover putting the two turnouts to industries frog-to-frog instead of point-to-point.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, that would end up with the two spurs having to cross each other, going to the opposite side of the scene from where they branched off the main.

Yes, that is exactly what I mean.

This is something I've seen with other types of track, but Unitrack's turnouts have 15 degrees of curvature through the frog...resulting in the need for a 30 degree crossing.  Kato makes no such animal,

Yow, I had no idea the Unitrack was so limited.

Yup...only 15 and 90 degree crossing...and a few other glaring absences to <shrug>

Do you have some idea of where I could go beyond the crossing that would be much different than what I have now?

Not exactly but for starters I was thinking I would immediately turn one track back parallel with the main for the grain elevator.

I agree with your goal there...right now I'm not seeing how I can pull it off given the Unitrack limitations...but I'll keep at it.  At this point, the placement of the industries is probably more of an exercise in being sure there was some way to get the 4 I wanted in there.  No matter what I do for the surrounding loops, I'm going to have a lot of time to plan & play with the spur layout.  With my budget, those turnouts and buildings are going to be a lot of months down the road.  

[nucat78]

Not on the Santa Fe...A small town in NW Ohio called Defiance.

Good town!  My Significant Other grew up there.  But she cares not a whit for railroads...