QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan Originally posted by flee307 Gotta tell ya, FRED, for someone who says he's comfortable with what he does, you sure spend a LOT of time rationalizing and defending it. You are right in one respect, I use to spent too much time on THIS forum arguing with idiots. But I enjoy it. Some of you are such dorks. Keep up the good work. FRED Reply Edit sparkingbolt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: Central Or 318 posts Posted by sparkingbolt on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 7:24 PM Some purists (not too many) aren't happy unless they're offended. The more fun some people have, the more offended those purists are, thus everyones happier! I'm a purist. MRRing should be pure enjoyment. Dan Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 6:25 PM A layout shape I would suggest you look at is the "water wings" shaped layout. A good example of this is the Chippiwa Central layout that was designed but not built at MR. It was also in one of the small magazine inserts that have come out in the last 3 years, so I'm willing to bet it is kicking around somewhere in your home. We all start out in the hobby from "where we are." And your preferences are a good place to start. Don't be surprised that over time your tastes change, in what direction I have no idea. Right now, this layout is really for you since a four year old is still young to be "right in there beside you." Also from experience, don't be surprised to hear "is the layout done yet?" Start your layout and get something up and she will be more into the hobby. If she has to wait four years while you decide on this and that, make this and that, figure out how this and that works, she'll lose interest. The track plan for the above suggested layout isn't that bad and affordable so you can get working on it right away...lol. "IS THE LAYOUT DONE YET DAD" Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 3:04 AM I have tried to add a little whimsy but also endevoured to make it as unobvious os possible, in fact much of the silly stuff has to be searched for and some can only be seen from the train cam. Station Ostrich, polar bear and giraffe in the woods, a giant electric dog hidden in a tunnel, a rhinoscerous pulling a barnhard crane in the logging camp, several well hidden giant squirrels, 5 daleks a K9, Dr ?#5, an Armatron...need I go on? Reply Edit jhugart Member sinceMay 2015 199 posts Posted by jhugart on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 12:06 AM There was an article in MR some time ago about Yesterland -- a fantasy theme park setting for a layout. You might dig that up. I live in Saint Paul, myself...I'd recommand picking one of your 4x8 modules and concentrating on that, instead of trying to build the whole thing at once. I'm working on a hexagonal 4x6 layout (corners cut off), that's just a simple loop of track with a stream, bridge, tunnel, and town, to keep my 3-year-old amused. Two friends are helping me, and it is amazing how time-consuming it can be! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, December 6, 2003 10:33 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307 Funny how people are still try to tell me how to have fun? So if I put an O-27 layout around my christmas tree and it's easy it's not fun? That's what gets my goat, people saying their way is fun and the rest of us are too dumb, unskilled, or whatever to know everyone else is inferior to them. I don't know whether to laugh, cry, or feel sorry? FRED Gotta tell ya, FRED, for someone who says he's comfortable with what he does, you sure spend a LOT of time rationalizing and defending it. Reply Edit Jetrock Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Midtown Sacramento 3,340 posts Posted by Jetrock on Saturday, December 6, 2003 11:22 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307 Funny how people are still try to tell me how to have fun? So if I put an O-27 layout around my christmas tree and it's easy it's not fun? That's what gets my goat, people saying their way is fun and the rest of us are too dumb, unskilled, or whatever to know everyone else is inferior to them. I don't know whether to laugh, cry, or feel sorry? FRED No, no, we're not. We're saying that your way is fun **AND** our way is fun, even though they're different. The examples I'm giving are just illustrations of why I find more detailed railroading to be fun. Don't laugh, cry or feel sorry. Have fun--I do too! Reply CP5415 Member sinceJuly 2003 From: Whitby, ON 2,594 posts Posted by CP5415 on Friday, December 5, 2003 8:55 PM I agree with Fred. It's my railroad, if I want my 4-6-2 to pull a stack train so be it. I don't want to be stuck to one idea. I love the fact that the 2 interchanges that I've been able to incorporate on my layout involve the UP, C&NW, MEC, NYC, Virginia & Truckee, Seaboard, NS, Conrail. B&M. As much as I love Canadian Pacific (my main line) I wanted to have locomotives from various railroads so friends can come over & bring their trains as well & won't be stuck using CP all the time. Just my 2 cents Gordon Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H! K1a - all the way Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 5, 2003 12:34 PM Funny how people are still try to tell me how to have fun? So if I put an O-27 layout around my christmas tree and it's easy it's not fun? That's what gets my goat, people saying their way is fun and the rest of us are too dumb, unskilled, or whatever to know everyone else is inferior to them. I don't know whether to laugh, cry, or feel sorry? FRED Reply Edit jrbarney Member sinceJanuary 2002 1,132 posts Posted by jrbarney on Friday, December 5, 2003 9:43 AM Daves-obc, It's probably before your time, but if you can access a copy of Carl Fallberg's beloved Fiddletown & Copperopolis, it's full of ideas for fantasy. And, one of the first movies I saw as a kid was Walt Disney's Dumbo. Popular Science even had an article for a model of the train in that movie, but you'll have to find a back issue index, as I've misplaced my copy. Bob "Time flies like an arrow - fruit flies like a banana." "In wine there is wisdom. In beer there is strength. In water there is bacteria." --German proverb Reply Jetrock Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Midtown Sacramento 3,340 posts Posted by Jetrock on Friday, December 5, 2003 9:17 AM Another place where fantasy miniatures would come in handy: if you built such a model in, say, On3/On30 (with suitable modifications to rolling stock and motive power for swamp-dragon-fired steam engines and applejack-thaumelectric locomotives) you could, quite feasibly, make use of common fantasy miniatures and the wide variety of miniature castles, mud huts and assorted pseudo-medieval accoutrements available at your friendly local roleplaying/minis wargaming shop. While traditional 25mm miniatures might be a tad small for O scale, Citadel 28mm miniatures would be close enough--especially if one was using OnXX sized equipment--and the structures available for 25/28mm scale would be about right considering that most model railroad structures are a bit undersized anyhow... You'd want to do a *LOT* of kitbashing of your motive power. Following Pratchett's assumed corollary to Moore's Law (Any sufficiently advanced technology on the Discworld is probably powered by magic) one wouldn't necessarily want coal-fired steam or diesel-electric--as mentioned above, steam power could be provided by having small, tame dragons strapped under the boilers as a heat source, with the "firemen" shoveling shovelfuls of dragon-food (coal? gold pieces? princesses?) into the dragon's mouth periodically. Applejack-thaumelectric locos could be fueled with that nefariously combustible beverage, fed into a Mystical Engine (either some complex magical device or a hedge-wizard named Deezel with an enormous thirst) that converts the created magical energy into a fairly powerful kinetic-energy spell to turn the wheels. That rare sort of applejack made with re-annual seeds might be used for the extremely dangerous practice of High Balling, in which a scheduled train arrives at its destination shortly before its departure from its point of origin... Control and signaling could utilize the Discworld's growing set of semaphore signals, with stone wizard's yard towers located at division points to cast "Throw Switch" spells at turnouts. Of course, since the Discworld has a tendency to follow storylines, many stereotypical railroad plotlines would have to take place at some point--the wicked railroad company that wants to put its line through a peasant's farm ("We have to put the railroad here! It's right on a ley-line!"), a villain tying the local princess to the tracks, a group of barbarian train-robbers, etcetera... see where I'm going here? Ludicrous? Yes! Completely out of line with the history of railroading as we know it? Yes! But internally consistent with its own logic and the logic of the world in which it is placed (so far as I can tell, having read a dozen or so Discworld books but not being much of an author myself.) Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, December 5, 2003 8:32 AM If you are wanting to build a "fantasy" layout (as i have often thought of doing) then one of the best ways to get it to look "right" rather than an incoherent collage would beto follow the Terry Pratchet Discworld books. I have given it quite a bit of thought and would rather like to build a large layout in Lancre (anyone familiar with it?) or the Uberwald. There is so much detail in the Discworld books that it would be possible to maintain a general "look" without it going crazy. Neil Reply Edit Jetrock Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Midtown Sacramento 3,340 posts Posted by Jetrock on Thursday, December 4, 2003 5:59 PM flee: calm down, have some dip. accurate prototype railroading, or freelance railroading with an eye towards authenticity and consistency of theme, is ALSO fun. if pulling 86 foot modern cars with 19th century steamers is your bag, that's fine--just don't accuse those who strive for a sense of realism of not having fun. Saying "I do X" does not necessarily imply "Other people should not do not-X", nor does "I like Y" imply "People who like not-Y are idiots." Freelancing does not HAVE to be unrealistic. It can be if you want it to be--but it doesn't have to be. What is FUN, what is challenging, at least to me, is making something that seems odd or incongruous part of one's layout and then making it fit. FUN doesn't mean the same thing as EASY. Whimsical ideas are NOT incompatible with consistent theme and realistic operation. Please read up on the Gorre & Daphetid for ultimate proof of this. I know it gets mentioned over and over again, but this was a guy running a completely imaginary line with a dinosaur switcher and a wide variety of in-jokes and wackiness all over the layout whose skill at realistic modeling and accurate prototype operation is still a height people aspire to 30 years later. I consider model railroading to be an art form. I've known plenty of artists in my time. Some were good, some were not so good. Some were painfully bad. While I'm sure that the painfully bad ones got a lot out of their artwork and thought they were great, and that's fine, but I am under no obligation to like or respect their work. They don't need my approval--which is a two-way street. daves-obc: Military miniatures have been around for a long time--you'll find Napoleonic ones, Civil War, WWII and modern military ones, science fiction, ancients (roman, greek, egyptian, etc.) and more. It's a pretty diverse field. Those in 15mm are a little small for HO but close enough to pass muster if used in their own scene. Hmmm....come to think of it, a bunch of Civil War HO military minis might provide an interesting scene on a modern layout--a group of Civil War reenactors acting out a battle, perhaps? A perfect excuse to break out that 4-4-0 American on a modern layout, too... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 4, 2003 2:34 PM I am unashamed to say I run Thomas and his friends on my layout. The grandkids love it. I have aliens. I have steamers pulling 86 foot cars. I don't care what anyone else thinks. I paid for it, I built it, it's mine. If you don't like it and it offends you go home, I will not miss you. I do this for my pleasure, not some dope on the internet. It's a hobby, it's folk art, not a statment in history, engineering, or any other serious pursuit. It use to say Model Railroading is FUN on mags, then the riviet counters took over and try to impose their will over the people wanting to have fun. I say screw 'em. FRED Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, December 4, 2003 12:27 PM Thanks for the tips so far. I'll be sure to pick up that issue of British Railway Modeling. I was in a comic book shop today (one of my other hobbies) and they had an extensive section of war gaming miniatures. Mostly pewter, all unpainted, and a variety of sizes. Lots of possibilities there for figures. The range of styles was interesting to me since I just assumed they would all be D&D type things. But they had cowboys, spacemen, pirates, and more. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, December 2, 2003 3:26 PM I recently purchased the November issue of BRITISH RAILWAY MODELLING. It has an article Under the heading of Layout Planning called Fantasy Park. The display type layout has 3 Track Guages O scale, On3, and Z Scale track with to represent a miniture railway snaking around a dinosaur model. The idea is of a hypothetical Devon Sea side Park complete with a Standard Guage Station, which interfaces with the paks theater and souvenire building, plus other buildings. Very good description of the idea testing process as well as physical test of concept features. cheers Reply Edit vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Monday, December 1, 2003 5:29 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by DSchmitt The G scalers have a magazine called AW NUTS. I've seen it at some train stores in the Sacramento area. They used to have a web site (Ilooked at it less than s months ago) I just searched for the link. I found the magazine listed on 4 or 5 model RR site apparently its address has been changed if it is still around. Does anybody know? Unfortunatly "AW NUTS" stopped publication a few months ago. There are no plans to restart as far as I know. Have fun with your trains Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 28, 2003 8:00 AM I am in the same boat as HellFire. I have already purchased a house and am planning on building a layout to go around the circumference of the room. There will be multiple railroads. So far I plan to have a roundhouse and turntable and I will be building a bridge out of styrofoam. I have already gotten the ok from my fiancee. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 28, 2003 5:17 AM Dave: I'm about as far from what you want to do as I can be! But I'd like to mention by way of support that its YOUR railroad and YOUR hobby. Build whatever you want and have fun doing it. That you are considering both your wife and child in what you plan is commendable. A thought you might consider? Perhaps as you move farther from the 'real world' portion of the layout the scene might become more abstract and elemental, bright colors and basic shapes. Something on the order of the landscapes in the Beatles movie Yellow Submarine or the Peter Max posters from the 60s/70s era. My daughter loved them as I recall, Yours might as well? Have fun, you seem to have a great idea for a family railroad. Randy Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 28, 2003 4:11 AM I'm running a couple of the Chinese boxcars made by Bachmann on my layout - they don't look too out of place and they certainly confuse the purists! Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 8:09 PM I love this idea! I have posted my feelings about modeling fantasy before, and if I had no full-time job and loads of ca***o support myself, I'd be embarking on an adventure of this sort. The thing is, though, you face the same problem that faces all true freelancers, in that the door is wide open, and this makes it hard to know when you've got it "right". What is required is a vivid and detailed imagination, and a commitment to a singular vision. If you follow all the wild suggestions here (UFO! Orcs! Daleks! Alice in Wonderland, anyone?) you will certainly end up with an incoherent collage, one that fails to persuade the viewer of its alternative reality, end thus fails to engage the imagination of others. The Hogwarts Express is a great starting point, because there is already a lot of visual source material to draw from, in the first two movies. What isn't shown in these can be inferred, and one could research idyllic English countrysides for inspiration. You might try subscribing to some British modeling periodicals and learn how it's done across the pond, and also learn where to buy models of English equipment. To make it be something non-British, you might want to throw in a counter-culture influence, such as Chinese, and then mix-and-match elements. Or even kitbash rolling stock together from the two! Build your train stations as thatch-covered tudor-style pagodas! I dunno, just ruminating about the possibilities. The point is, to narrow down your vision to something specific, then execute that. If you can make that commitment, then your work will not fail to impress the rest of us, even as determined as we are to follow our prototypes. Reply Edit DSchmitt Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: California - moved to North Carolina 2018 4,422 posts Posted by DSchmitt on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 3:38 PM The G scalers have a magazine called AW NUTS. I've seen it at some train stores in the Sacramento area. They used to have a web site (Ilooked at it less than s months ago) I just searched for the link. I found the magazine listed on 4 or 5 model RR site apparently its address has been changed if it is still around. Does anybody know? I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it. I don't have a leg to stand on. Reply ndbprr Member sinceSeptember 2002 7,486 posts Posted by ndbprr on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 3:30 PM My personal opinion is nobody minds whimsical layouts. The ones that drive people nuts are the guys who claim to model XYZ and claim they follow prototype rules. equipment, (fill in the blank). When you arrive at their house drooling all over yourself and the guy escorts you to the layout he has 4-4-0's pulling 86' box cars and diesels pulling 1800 passenger cars and wonders why you don't have any compliments for him. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 3:11 PM Thanks everyone for the input, especially the tip about the Harry Potter dice figures. I'll also check out that mirco-layout book for sure. There will be a TARDIS for sure. The Daleks are a strong possibility, so I'm sure a UFO could be worked in somewhere. Reply Edit Jetrock Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Midtown Sacramento 3,340 posts Posted by Jetrock on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 12:24 PM Well, considering that 1947 is the beginning of the modern period of UFO sightings, something off in the background might not be inappropriate. Even the straightest layouts can have some oddball business happening in the corner--if you've ever seen the California State Railway Museum's HO scale logging-line display, if you look carefully you'll notice an elephant hiding in the woods in the background! Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 9:08 AM UFO, come on you need a UFO! Jay Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 8:58 AM If you like whimsical, I suggest you get yourself a copy of Carl Arendt's two books on Micro-Layouts - they're full of whimsical ideas for railroads. Carl's focus is on very small layouts (4 square feet or less), but the concepts and ideas could be expanded to larger layouts as well. Reply Edit 12 Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
Originally posted by flee307 Gotta tell ya, FRED, for someone who says he's comfortable with what he does, you sure spend a LOT of time rationalizing and defending it.
QUOTE: Originally posted by flee307 Funny how people are still try to tell me how to have fun? So if I put an O-27 layout around my christmas tree and it's easy it's not fun? That's what gets my goat, people saying their way is fun and the rest of us are too dumb, unskilled, or whatever to know everyone else is inferior to them. I don't know whether to laugh, cry, or feel sorry? FRED
Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!
K1a - all the way
QUOTE: Originally posted by DSchmitt The G scalers have a magazine called AW NUTS. I've seen it at some train stores in the Sacramento area. They used to have a web site (Ilooked at it less than s months ago) I just searched for the link. I found the magazine listed on 4 or 5 model RR site apparently its address has been changed if it is still around. Does anybody know?
Have fun with your trains
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.