I use my hand to switch my handlaid double slip, but I don't see how you could "wire" them to act simultaneously when you sometimes want them to switch to the same side and sometimes to opposite sides. That is, for through passage, you want the four points to move in opposite directions, while for diversion you want them to move in the same direction. You'd need a programmable device to figure out which way to throw the points.
I have a feeling, though, that this is where I am about to learn something. I look forward to it.
I'm not sure, but I think it would take a Tortoise on all 4 corners of the double slip along with some sort of 'route programming' in order to get the points thrown correctly so your train takes the appropriate route that you desire.
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
The control of double slip switches requires two separately controlled machines, each one throwing all four points adjacent to one acute-angle frog. This, in turn, requires that the panel controls be separated as well.
With Tortoises operated from a single panel, one SPDT (on - on) switch for each machine will handle it, and, if the switches are mounted in the track diagram, the position of the switch toggles will indicate which route through the double slip is clear.
The reason is simple. There are four possible routes through a double slip switch, only one of which can be used at any given moment (unless you run trains that can safely intrepenetrate each other.) That requires four possible control positions, simple with two toggles but not so simple with any other form of control.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - including hand-laid double slip switches)
selector wrote: I use my hand to switch my handlaid double slip, but I don't see how you could "wire" them to act simultaneously when you sometimes want them to switch to the same side and sometimes to opposite sides. That is, for through passage, you want the four points to move in opposite directions, while for diversion you want them to move in the same direction. You'd need a programmable device to figure out which way to throw the points. I have a feeling, though, that this is where I am about to learn something. I look forward to it.
I installed one and originally tried to work both Tortoises off of one feed (in this case a DS64 output) but I found that I wanted all four combinations of switching so I ended up using two separate feeds and programming routes. This would be the same for you using two separate switches DPDT switches.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
jbinkley60 wrote: selector wrote: I use my hand to switch my handlaid double slip, but I don't see how you could "wire" them to act simultaneously when you sometimes want them to switch to the same side and sometimes to opposite sides. That is, for through passage, you want the four points to move in opposite directions, while for diversion you want them to move in the same direction. You'd need a programmable device to figure out which way to throw the points. I have a feeling, though, that this is where I am about to learn something. I look forward to it. I installed one and originally tried to work both Tortoises off of one feed (in this case a DS64 output) but I found that I wanted all four combinations of switching so I ended up using two separate feeds and programming routes. This would be the same for you using two separate switches DPDT switches.
Thank-you! So, as I anticipated, you need at least two separate and reversiing DPDTs that must be actioned independantly to get all four combinations, am I right? This makes sense, but I wonder if a decoder would serve to automate it...I don't see how, but there may be a way.
selector wrote:I wonder if a decoder would serve to automate it...I don't see how, but there may be a way.
But if one just thinks of a double slip as two turnouts positioned point to point, then it is activated just the same.
I was faced with a similar dilemma with THREE double slip switches at a major junction feeding my Union Station tracks. I had used the usual toggle switches but became very frustrated because lining up a route was very tedious and invariably I'd get one wrong with nasty results!
At one of the train shows I attended I found a bank of cancelling push button DPDT push button switches. If you study the switch carefully you can see how to wire each pushbutton for one of each of the four routes through the double slip. This worked great for me! I labeled each leg of the slip switch as A; B; C; D; then wired the pushbuttons to select routes A to C, B to D etc. Very intuitive and a pleasure to set up routes.
Since then I have discovered some four pole four throw rotary switches that I wire to operate each Tortoise for the double slip and each position on the rotary corresponds to which route I need. I also accompany this with bi-color LEDs on the panel diagram so there is also a visual reference for the route. I had looked into "route control" using dcc decoders but this looked too involved for me and besides, I didn't want the hassle of using my throttle to throw switches, then go back to controlling the train unless you could use a dedicated throttle just for turnout control.
Setting my routes up with these rotary switches is a breeze. If you check out e-bay that's where I found the switches. They're surplus Russian military issue! Actually they're six position switches but you can set a pin in the faceplate that limits the throw to only the needed four positions!
Hope this helps, ED
selector wrote: jbinkley60 wrote: selector wrote: I use my hand to switch my handlaid double slip, but I don't see how you could "wire" them to act simultaneously when you sometimes want them to switch to the same side and sometimes to opposite sides. That is, for through passage, you want the four points to move in opposite directions, while for diversion you want them to move in the same direction. You'd need a programmable device to figure out which way to throw the points. I have a feeling, though, that this is where I am about to learn something. I look forward to it. I installed one and originally tried to work both Tortoises off of one feed (in this case a DS64 output) but I found that I wanted all four combinations of switching so I ended up using two separate feeds and programming routes. This would be the same for you using two separate switches DPDT switches. Thank-you! So, as I anticipated, you need at least two separate and reversiing DPDTs that must be actioned independantly to get all four combinations, am I right? This makes sense, but I wonder if a decoder would serve to automate it...I don't see how, but there may be a way.
The DS64s are stationary decoders (as opposed to single output mobile decoders used in locomotives) designed to do what you are asking. They have 4 outputs to drive Tortoises (or other things). They have local routes that you can program in and they can cascade routes to other DS64s. In my yard I have three of them covering 12 turnouts. I've numbered my routes so instead of going in and manually throwing 5 or 6 turnouts to move a locomotives, I enter the route number, engage the route and all of the turnouts go where I want. I found it easier than creating diode matrices and the like. Also if I need to make a change, I just reprogram the routes. Here's a picture of my yard control panel.
So, for instance, if you were entering the yard and wanted to go to the lower track of the double track (my intermodal terminal), you'd have to travserse 3 turnouts. I simply enter route 201T on my DCC controller and all three turnouts move to the proper location. Each other yard leg has its own route number. Notice how clean it makes the control panel ? The only toggle switches are for block power on/off. This yard as 2 - 3ways, a double-slip and 7 regular turnouts. The LEDs indicate which way the turnouts are thrown. Routes and DS64s made this much more fun to operate.
Cool, Jeff! Thanks for the explanation. I was confident that someone had figured it all out, but I had not seen it.
-Crandell
I meant to post this earlier but forgot. Here's a URL that shows the construction of this control panel.
http://www.thebinks.com/trains/control_panels.html
And here's a picture of the yard with the route numbers.
I have laminted this and which makes it an easy reference to select routes. The yellow Sxx numbers are the switch addresses for direct DCC addressing.