N-Scale Coupler/Truck & coupler replacement

[Anonymous]

Hi guys,

As a semi-experienced former HO'er and now into N...just some quick questions.

I purchased 2 Atlas GP's...1958-64 era... and a Lifelike Proto 2000 switcher and am modelling a mountain layout. Having bought and spent major money on all NS track and Peco switches, I purchased a lot of cheap "used" cars along with some new Walthers cars. The problem is that 95% of everything I have has those stupid bloody horn-hook couplers. I need to replace them all...but first some boring zzzz<grin>. I don't, for the life of me, know what each car is. From my experience it seems that they are atlas, athern, and walthers. They use a central plastic pin that secures the truck to the rail car. Some may be lifelike...but hey...after they are weathered...scuffed...and properly prepped...they'll fit into a detailed layout quite nicely.

1) Primary industries are mining and lumber...generally short hoppers for ore/coal and some box cars/flat cars for lumbering. All box cars are 2 axle...although I question about using 3 axle for 55 foot (?) hoppers which are exchanged from other railroads.

2) Present "Horn hook" couplers vary in height up to 1/4 of an inch.

3) I want to use micro-trains couplers due to their legendary reputation...and the ease of frustrations by using magnets to uncouple these little buggar cars...i'm sick of using chop sticks (simular-type tool) to disconnect cars. I have heard, however, that complete cab replacements run about $50+ canadian per 5 cars...so I am open to other brands that are reliable in staying coupled around curves, can be unhooked, and look realistic.

I just want something that is realistic/could have been used in north america during this time period. I have not had experience with adjusting Kadee couplers...so figure that with plastic and metal wheels on cars, it'd be nice to have one type of standard.

Thanks guys...hopefully not too ambigious in my description.

[Anonymous]

I'm in the process of doing the same thing, upgrading a 300-car fleet of old cheap N-scale junk ot the same set of higher standards, relying on weathering to blend them in amongst the better equipment. What I decided to do was to use the truck-mounted couplers that Micro-Trains offers as my standard, so that the coupler heights are uniform regardless of the car body. I do have body-mounted couplers on my engines, though, which forces me to pay attention to curve radius (a body-mounted coupler swings wide on tight curves, while truck-mounted couplers stay centered over the track).

Are you sure that you're describing N-scale equipment? You mention "horn-hook" couplers which are the standard for HO equipment. As for 3-axle trucks on freight equipment, you should know that very few freight cars ever had more than 2 axles per truck. Depressed-center flat cars have 3-axle trucks frequently due to the increased load they are capable of. My favorite RR, the Norfolk & Western, experimented with coal gondola design by creating a deep-sided and long gondola that rode on 3-axle trucks; these were rated for 100 tons of load, but got supplanted by hopper designs based on 2-axle trucks, which eventually got up to the same 100-ton rating. I would suggest that you only use 3-axle trucks on a model which you have researched and discovered to use them.

[MAbruce]

Welcome to N-scale!

The couplers you described (in HO terminology [;)]) are called "Rapido" couplers. They were the standard in early N-scale and have somehow managed to stay around for all these years. [xx(]

MicroTrains is certainly the gold standard in replacement knuckle type couplers. You certainly can't go wrong with them. They come in the most variety and make conversion kits for just about every loco/car in N-scale. But I agree that they are on the pricey side.

The only other alternative is Accumate (from Atlas). They do work fine, but I've read many reports that they don't work well in long trains (they uncouple because of the strain). However, I've used Accumates as a cost effective alternative, and they work well on my railroad (no more than 25 cars in length). They will also mate well with MT's, but don’t offer the same selection of truck styles.

If you go with MT couplers/trucks, keep in mind that they usually come with large wheel flanges (know as “Pizza Cutters”). They will become a problem if you use code 55 track from Atlas (they run fine on Peco 55 and Atlas 80). If you use Atlas code 55, you will have to swap out the wheels to low profile wheels (offered by MT and others).

[Anonymous]

Excellent info guys. Now I know what rapidos are<grin>...i've read about them. I actually thought they were the default Atlas Accumate couplers...thanks MABruce for clearing that up. HO to N isn't as easy as I thought it would be...

Thanks with the info on the microtrains truck-mounted couplers...that'll help. What's the truth with body-mounted couplers anyhow? I assume that the longer the car...the more apt they are to have a body mounted coupler? Can you modify a truck-coupler to a body coupler by the way? Just curious. Thanks about the axle info...finding research info about 1950-65 CN/CPR trains to be somewhat difficult. Any idea of an idea of what an ideal truck mounted coupler vs. a body mounted one can take in curve radius? I'm working with about 11" radius...not perfect...but am using short 50' or less cars.

I'm in the process of doing the same thing, upgrading a 300-car fleet of old cheap N-scale junk ot the same set of higher standards, relying on weathering to blend them in amongst the better equipment. What I decided to do was to use the truck-mounted couplers that Micro-Trains offers as my standard, so that the coupler heights are uniform regardless of the car body. I do have body-mounted couplers on my engines, though, which forces me to pay attention to curve radius (a body-mounted coupler swings wide on tight curves, while truck-mounted couplers stay centered over the track).

Alright...question with the Atlas Accumate...i've got 2 ore hoppers that have these couplers...and have had problems with them coming apart...like literally falling apart...do the MicroTrains ones behave in the same way? I guess I am kind of a perfectionist with things...so haven't yet built up rolling stock...after the $800+ for track and peco switches...doesn't leave much extra<grin>.

Another question...is it cheaper to buy a new car with Micro/Atlas couplers or buy a used car (am doing ore/coal...) and retrofit it? The cheapest I have found a car is $5...and the thought of buying 3 cars for $100 seems NASTY.

Thanks guys.

Justin

[AltonFan]

AFAIK, only Micro-Trains cars come equipped with Micro-Trains couplers, and everything else has to be retrofitted. The Micro-Trains cars are also some of the highest quality cars available.

Truck-mounted, or Talgo couplers work well in N scale. (In HO, talgo couplers tend to derail in backing.) Micro-Trains couplers can be body-mounted to frieght cars, but it is extra work. (If you're going to go that route, might as well install Z scale couplers which are closer to scale.)

[Anonymous]

Hey you blokes,
let's not knock the Rapido coupler - at least N Scale manufacturers saw the need to standardise when HOers were still a mishmash of coupler types, standards and materials.

That being said, nearly 40 years down the track, times have changed and demand a better system - and you're right - Microtrains rules.

Just one thing - why call early model rolling stock Junk - it was good for its time, and properly prepared is still good today.

By the way - where do you pick up "cheap" N Scale rolling stock as metioned in the forum

David Stokes

[Anonymous]

If you are going down to 11" radius, then I'd say that you should make the extra effort to ensure that all your equipment is either truck/talgo mounted, or is body mounted, and also try to use rolling stock of similar lengths, because in my experience the disparity between truck and body mount becomes apparent at around 15" radius or under for N-scale. I'm using a 14" minimum radius on my layout, with broader curves anywhere I can fit them, and still I can have troubles when a long SD-45 with a body-mounted coupler is towing something with truck-mounted couplers. There is enough play in the coupler itself so that they stay coupled and don't derail, but I can't do any switching moves on a curve that tight.

As for the cost, I buy bulk packs of trucks and couplers, which come with ten pairs for around $30, give or take depending on where you buy from. So, the replacement wheelsets add $3 to the cost of a given car, and once I have weighted my old Bachmann "junk" to match my better stuff, replaced its wheelsets, and weathered it adequately, often there's little to distinguish it from the more expensive stuff. But, then, I have paid about $5 initially for the car, so my expenses are roughly the same as if I'd bought a new Micro-Trains car instead (maybe a little cheaper, since M-T cars are collectibles and thus variable in price).

[AltonFan]

QUOTE: ...and once I have weighted my old Bachmann "junk" to match my better stuff, replaced its wheelsets,...

Out of curiosity, Avondaleguy, how do you install the M-T trucks on the Bachmann cars?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:

Out of curiosity, Avondaleguy, how do you install the M-T trucks on the Bachmann cars?

GOOD QUESTION!

You know what, I definitely misspoke here. Because, to date, the only trucks that I have replaced have been from older Model Power or Atlas (old Atlas) or other manufacturers who used the plastic kingpin for truck attachment. Bachmann, however, uses a screw through the bolster, which doesn't fit the opening on the M-T trucks.

It's just been my dumb luck that I had not encountered this difficulty before.

So, I'm not sure what the answer is going to be. I might cut the bolster entirely off of the car body, and then see if the screw will hold the truck; probably this will need a washer. I think there is one that comes with the M-T trucks pack, and maybe this is its purpose. I can't imagine that this is a new issue; the way M-T packages so many different styles of kingpin, I'm almost sure one of them is intended for Bachmann stock.

[AltonFan]

The only way I know of, on the more recent Bachmann equipment, is to replace the Rapido coupler with either an 1128 or 1129 coupler. (And believe me, I did try to put a MT truck under a Bachmann chassis. It doesn't work.)

But as I said, I avoid Bachmann freight cars altogether.

[Anonymous]

I checked the M-T packaging and they suggest enlarging the hole in the truck bolster using a 9/64" drill bit, so that it fits over the Bachmann pivot. They say to use the original screw to hold it on, so the only thing you do is open up the bolster hole. I am going to try this, but I worry about the wall of the truck's bolster getting too thin and breaking.

I do not want to end up with a handful of Bachmann's with body-mounted couplers mixed into my standardized fleet. The thing is, though, I think some of the Bachmann stuff is worth the effort to salvage, especially their covered hoppers (I'm a covered hopper freak, I have to admit). I don't want to forgo their Wabash, B&O, and Penn Central roadnames, since these are on-target regional lines for my northern VA Norfolk & Western layout.

You mention "more recent" equipment; have they changed anything in the last few years? All of my stuff is at least ten years old.

[AltonFan]

IIRC, the older Bachmann stuff, say the cars produced from the 1970s into the 1980s had bolster pins typical of the N scale equipment made by Atlas, Minitrix, Roco, Life-Like, and AHM during that period.

The stuff Bachmann has produced in the last ten years, when they made their cars in China rather than Hong Kong, has the screws.

As i have mentioned, you can replace the truck-mounted couplers on the Bachmann trucks with 1128 or 1129 couplers, but it is tedious work.

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pirranna
[Alright...question with the Atlas Accumate...i've got 2 ore hoppers that have these couplers...and have had problems with them coming apart...like literally falling apart...do the MicroTrains ones behave in the same way? I guess I am kind of a perfectionist with things...so haven't yet built up rolling stock...after the $800+ for track and peco switches...doesn't leave much extra<grin>.

Justin:

No, Accumates should not come apart like that. It's possible they came from the first production runs - which had these kinds of problems. The other problem they had was the trip pins falling out. I suggest that you contact Atlas customer service (I think you can email them through their website). They do stand behind their products, and replaced a pair of Accumates I had that did the same thing. In fact, they didn't even ask for the old ones back!

QUOTE:

Another question...is it cheaper to buy a new car with Micro/Atlas couplers or buy a used car (am doing ore/coal...) and retrofit it? The cheapest I have found a car is $5...and the thought of buying 3 cars for $100 seems NASTY.

You have to do your math. Add the cost of the car and the cost of whatever replacement trucks/couplers you decide to use. For instance, I picked up a pair of older Atlas 90 ton hoppers at a train show for $2 each (they are basically the same molds used today), so add another $3 for a new pair of couplers/truck - $5 per car is pretty nice considering they go for $7 new.

I agree with David Stokes that there are a number of old rolling stock items that hold up to today's standards. Just be carful how pay too much for them. For instance, another great find are the older (early 90's) Roundhouse kits. They can be found for under $5 each, are nicely detailed, and are easy to put together. After a truck/coupler change and some weathering, it's hard to tell them apart from their pricey MT cousins.

The bottom line - let someone else pay $15 to $20 (or more) per car. Just be patient and wait for the deals on the nicer older stuff.

btw: Has anyone tried to do a coupler only conversion on the new Bachmann silver series cars? They look like they have nice metal wheels & trucks, but still use their screwed in bolster pins. I ask because these cars could be the next "deal" that stores try to get rid of.

[Anonymous]

Thanks MAbruce...guess I look at a new car runs like $14.00 and well thinking of couplers at like $8.00...that's kind of nasty...but so true. I'll contact Atlas with those couplers...i've heard good things of the Atlas ones...must be from the first batch...

[DSchmitt]

Most of the older 40/50 foot cars are easy to convert to Micro Trains truck mounted couplers using replacement trucks. I have Atlas, Bachman, and Concor dating back to 1968 (an Atlas 50 ' boxcar "kit" was 99 cents). When Kadees (MT) became available I converted the cars I already had a few at a time and new cars as I bought them. A few difficult to convert cars like Rapido 85' box cars were made compatable using Unimate dummy couplers in the origional trucks.

There are some advocates for body mounting couplers. They have some good points, but generally body mounting has not caught on in N scale. They usually use MT Z couplers because the N couplers are actually grossly oversize. The also pioneered the use of low profile wheels, which are now comming into more general use.

Besides prototype realism and better appearance, cars with body mounts track better in some circumstances. Sometimes when cars with truck mounts are pushed the forces appliedd cause the trucks to turn (swing) under the car. Sometimes the car derails result.

MT has both N and Z couplers designed for body mounting. Problems are cost and also getting the couplers aligned properly on the centerline of the car. MT used to have a replacement underframe for body mounting couplers that fit some cars.

The truck mounted couplers can be cut off the trucks and used, but the appearance is not as good and the width of the box limits truck swing.

[Anonymous]

Aligning them is my biggest issue with body mounting the buggars. I know you can use shims (of what?)...but you obviously can go from lower to higher...and not higher to lower...tempting to just chuck what I have now and get new cars<grin>...less aggrevation and perhaps around the same cost<grin>....