joe-daddy wrote:<snip> We used a franklin fireplace in the train room to heat the house. <more snipping>
<snip>
We used a franklin fireplace in the train room to heat the house. <more snipping>
Perhaps that wass the root of your problem. everything in (or near if there's a poor draft) the fireplaces in houses (no matter what type) awlays seem to get the soot/tar/whatever from the smoke all over...
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
jamnest
Yes it will work. That is what was originally suggested in the Model Railroader article back in 2003 where I got the idea to try it on my layout!
Other types of polish that have been tried is
Blue Magic (both liquid and paste)
Mothers Mag Wheel polish
43 months and counting ;-)
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
Driline
Any metal polish will work except those that tend to leave a wet finish (which BRASSO and most CHROME Cleaners do).
So what you have is fine.
I apply the polish by putting some on a 1” long piece of HO cork (only because I model in HO and have a lot left over from a previous layout).
I spread a thin coat of the polish on the cork and then just rub the rails for about 10 feet or so.
I then take a clean piece of HO cork and buff the section I have just done. THAT is IT!
No using of a Bright Boy, sandpaper or burnishing - NOTHING but the polish.
I change the cork when it is really black and use the buffing piece to then put the polish on and get a new piece of clean cork to buff.
Depending on how big the layout is it should not take long to completely clean the layout.
My layout only took 1 hour with 4 people but then again WE were cleaning 2800 feet of track.
So not having to waste my time running cleaning cars around the layout before an OPs session is great.
If I found places where there was an excess of buildup on the rails I will used the Bright Boy and then polish the rails again.
BOB H – Clarion, PA
Driline wrote:>>>>> major snip <<<< Whats the clean machine?
>>>>> major snip <<<<
Whats the clean machine?
A very good (but pricey) track cleaning car, available in most scales. Tony's used to be the only place to get it, but Walthers and others now carry it. It's all business -- not hidden in a boxcar or the like. Heavy. Works with liquid (I prefer acetone, but rubbing alcohol is also good) but can also use an abraisive pad (I've never tried that).
I think Tony's still has his unconditional money-back guarantee (on everything he sells).
Here's the scoop: http://tonystrains.com/gallery/cmx_section.htm
Pondini wrote: Driline wrote: Pondini wrote: cmrproducts wrote: Cleaning has to be done continuously. This is where the modeling community is in a rut and why there are so many companies out there producing cleaning cars. Everyone stated that I run my (fill in the blank here) type of car before I run my layout. >>> snip <<<< BOB H – Clarion, PA Gee, Bob, don't you think you're exaggerating just a bit? "Everyone stated that I run my ... before I run my layout"? Pray tell, just where did you see that, or anything like it? You must be reading some other thread. I didn't say it in my post, and I didn't see it in any other post. In fact, I stated that I clean about every 18 months. Yes, months.I've tried the process, and found it too much work for the results . . . for me, on a previous layout, in very tough conditions. If you like it, and it works for you, great. Conditions in train rooms vary widely, and I suspect this has more to do with how clean track stays than the method. Maybe not. But please don't put words in my mouth, ok? Geeeez.. a little grumpy arn't we? He was only making a general statement and it wasn't blasted towards you.I think somebody woke up on the wrong side of the tracks todayAs for me..I'm headed out to Wally World to get me some "BLUE MAGIC"! I apologize if I offended you, Driline. I guess I'm just a bit tired of utter misrepresentation of cleaning by a few of the True Believers. "Everyone" did NOT state anything even remotely like that. As I've always said, if it works for you, great. If not, I've had very good success with the Clean Machine. Your mileage may vary.
Driline wrote: Pondini wrote: cmrproducts wrote: Cleaning has to be done continuously. This is where the modeling community is in a rut and why there are so many companies out there producing cleaning cars. Everyone stated that I run my (fill in the blank here) type of car before I run my layout. >>> snip <<<< BOB H – Clarion, PA Gee, Bob, don't you think you're exaggerating just a bit? "Everyone stated that I run my ... before I run my layout"? Pray tell, just where did you see that, or anything like it? You must be reading some other thread. I didn't say it in my post, and I didn't see it in any other post. In fact, I stated that I clean about every 18 months. Yes, months.I've tried the process, and found it too much work for the results . . . for me, on a previous layout, in very tough conditions. If you like it, and it works for you, great. Conditions in train rooms vary widely, and I suspect this has more to do with how clean track stays than the method. Maybe not. But please don't put words in my mouth, ok? Geeeez.. a little grumpy arn't we? He was only making a general statement and it wasn't blasted towards you.I think somebody woke up on the wrong side of the tracks todayAs for me..I'm headed out to Wally World to get me some "BLUE MAGIC"!
Pondini wrote: cmrproducts wrote: Cleaning has to be done continuously. This is where the modeling community is in a rut and why there are so many companies out there producing cleaning cars. Everyone stated that I run my (fill in the blank here) type of car before I run my layout. >>> snip <<<< BOB H – Clarion, PA Gee, Bob, don't you think you're exaggerating just a bit? "Everyone stated that I run my ... before I run my layout"? Pray tell, just where did you see that, or anything like it? You must be reading some other thread. I didn't say it in my post, and I didn't see it in any other post. In fact, I stated that I clean about every 18 months. Yes, months.I've tried the process, and found it too much work for the results . . . for me, on a previous layout, in very tough conditions. If you like it, and it works for you, great. Conditions in train rooms vary widely, and I suspect this has more to do with how clean track stays than the method. Maybe not. But please don't put words in my mouth, ok?
cmrproducts wrote: Cleaning has to be done continuously. This is where the modeling community is in a rut and why there are so many companies out there producing cleaning cars. Everyone stated that I run my (fill in the blank here) type of car before I run my layout. >>> snip <<<< BOB H – Clarion, PA
Cleaning has to be done continuously. This is where the modeling community is in a rut and why there are so many companies out there producing cleaning cars. Everyone stated that I run my (fill in the blank here) type of car before I run my layout.
>>> snip <<<<
Gee, Bob, don't you think you're exaggerating just a bit? "Everyone stated that I run my ... before I run my layout"? Pray tell, just where did you see that, or anything like it? You must be reading some other thread. I didn't say it in my post, and I didn't see it in any other post. In fact, I stated that I clean about every 18 months. Yes, months.
I've tried the process, and found it too much work for the results . . . for me, on a previous layout, in very tough conditions. If you like it, and it works for you, great. Conditions in train rooms vary widely, and I suspect this has more to do with how clean track stays than the method. Maybe not. But please don't put words in my mouth, ok?
Geeeez.. a little grumpy arn't we? He was only making a general statement and it wasn't blasted towards you.
I think somebody woke up on the wrong side of the tracks today
As for me..I'm headed out to Wally World to get me some "BLUE MAGIC"!
I apologize if I offended you, Driline. I guess I'm just a bit tired of utter misrepresentation of cleaning by a few of the True Believers. "Everyone" did NOT state anything even remotely like that.
As I've always said, if it works for you, great. If not, I've had very good success with the Clean Machine. Your mileage may vary.
Sounds like track cleaning has become a denomination, I wonder if it is Calvinistic or Armenian?
I am convinced the problem with track cleaing is temperature, humidity & dust control. This conclusion of course was based upon my own very limited experiences. About 1976 I built a layout with Atlas brass track in a house neither central air nor heat in Mississippi. We used a franklin fireplace in the train room to heat the house. The track would crud up almost every time I ran it. So I changed over to nickel silver and it was good for every other time or so. What a terrible pain, it was one of the main reasons I left the hobby.
When DCC lured me back last year, this problem was on my mind and I purchased a centerline to get prepared for the problem. During the entire 15 months I have been building and rebuilding my layout, I have yet to run the centerline on all the track, nor have I seen or heard any track cleanning issues. Bright boy nice and new, centerline on a siding somewhere, the roller in my track nail box.
SO what is different? First I now live in Colorado where the humidity is as low as Mississippi was high. My layout is in a climate controlled reasonably clean room where the temp ranges from 68 - 72 winter and summer. My track cleaning tool is a vacuum cleaner after I have done some construction.
My layout is DCC with a growing sophistication of electronics and most of my engines have sound decoders. I just don't have track cleaning problems.
Now I have a good friend who lives in N. Denver with a 24 X 32 in a building out back that is reasonably insulated, a window air conditioner and a heater on the ceiling. Temperatures probably differ some 40 - 50 degrees during season changes. His humidity is going to be pretty low. His layout is as clean as mine, but he does have concrete floors while I have industrial carpet in mine. He uses CMX with Acetone several times a year and does some local cleaning at times as well.
It does sound like the polishing thing may be a solution in those environments where track crud is a problem.
OH, one other thing, 70% of my wheels are metal, my friend in Denver is probably 25% metal.
Best,
Joe Daddy
So. . . can we reach a consensus that on new track that has never been Bright Boy-ed there is no need for fine grit sanding or burnishing with SST?
Also wondering: Can I apply polish to the rails before installing and still paint the sides?
KL
Thanks for the tip about pledge and painting! I was painting the roofs for a AF 752 Seaboard Coaler, and as a precaution I washed the roofs down with solvent prior to painting. I usually wipe down before painting, but I'll be for sure too now!
I'll post pics of the coaler when it is done
Jim
I think you hit the nail on the head!
This is what I have been trying to say all along but I guess most everyone has missed the connection.
As I have stated so many times before, ONCE I used the metal polish I just kept running the layout and waited for it to quit working.
I am STILL waiting - Tonight is another OPs and we will just go out there in the train room and turn on the layout and run NO cleaning, wiping NOTHING!
JUST run!
43 months and counting ;-).
I am thinking about building a small switching module as that is all I have room for right now. I plan on doing the glean and polish method from the start. I want to do each and every piece of track and as I am going to use the Fasttracks jigs to build my switchs and I plan on doing them after I have them built. I have been wondering if the people that say it makes no difference in operation or that it doesn't last for them have been using a cleaning car on their layouts? It would seem to me that if you use a abrasive pad or if you use a liquid solvent on a cloth, that it might be removing the layer of wax and allowing the oxidation to return. I would imagine that even alcohol would remove the wax from the top the rails. This is just a thought I had and I want to try this method out.
I don't want to offend anyone and was just wondering! Thanks Jim
A warning about using Pledge, or any other furniture polish. Don't use it on anything that you intend to paint down the line. Pledge contains silicone, and silicone doesn't get along at all well with most paints, resulting in a condition called "fisheye". Depending on the porosity of the surface, it can be very difficult to get off. So just watch the overspray.
Respectfully, BD
I did a similar experiment with the polishing stated above and endorse it also, but as we've about worn that out, as the layout goes, I use a swiffer with the extension handle. Works great. I polish accesories and running stock and locos with Pledge, and it helps them stay clean and easy to dust. I have a small shopvac with the attachments for PC cleaning, a reducing hose small brushes etc. and it works very well.
As stated, keeping the room clean goes a long way to keeping the layout clean. The vacuum I use to clean the floor (no carper; hardwood floor) exhaust outside the room. And the filter over the vent makes a huge difference. Put a filter in place then check it in afew weeks and you will see what I mean.
Pondini
I am sorry that you thought that I may have suggested that you run the cleaning car before operating!
To all of the others!
YES, I was making a generalization but I have been on this forum since 2001 and I have lost count of the number of individuals complaining that they dislike cleaning their track or how their latest cleaning car (which costs too much) works but they still have to clean the track again and again.
I could go back and drag up every post from the archives (if the search function worked that well and I had a couple of months). But all that still would not prove anything. I have over 60, replies myself, to the track cleaning questions just for this forum alone!
As was stated every layout room is different! And what works for me may not work for everyone else (although 90% of those that have tried metal polish in the Northwestern PA area no longer waste their time using a cleaning car!!!)
And NO I did not come up with the GLEAM Process – I just used the metal polish on the layout and that was it! NOTHING else. I figured that if it worked for a couple of months then I was ahead of the game. I just kept on Operating the layout whenever I wanted to and would reapply the metal polish when the layout quit running smooth. I AM STILL WAITING for this to happen. So don’t get down on me for not having a failure with the metal polish method!
Now WHY would my situation be any different that anyone else’s?
Is it not recommended that the room be finished (ceiling, walls, floor)(as stated on these forums, the Yahoo Groups LDSIG – Yahoo Groups RY OPS SIG – Yahoo Groups Layout Construction forum – Model Railroader – Railroad Model Craftsman, etc. etc.).
I thought that this was one of the requirements so when I built my latest layout I finished off the room. Yes it was costly but then I had other layouts built up against raw cement block walls and the open floor joists (which let the dust come raining down on the layout when anyone walked on the floor above). I was tired of this continuing problem with dust and I wanted to make this layout a pleasant place to spend a couple of hours doing OPs with my friends.
So YES it may be the way I have the layout room set up that makes the metal polish work (but WHY then did I have such a problem keeping the track clean and RUNABLE before I used the metal polish???? )
That sort of blows that theory out of the water!!!!
I do not have heat in the basement other than a few electric heaters sitting around the layout room and use them when needed. So I do not have the forced air movement problem of the heat moving the dust around from the open sections of the cement floor (that has yet to be sealed and painted).
But I never had heat in the basement (but why then did I have such a problem keeping the track clean and RUNABLE before I used the metal polish???? )
And WHY does my layout continue to work YEARS after the ONE and only application of the metal polish where others have to keep reapplying the metal polish monthly or yearly, or they have to run a cleaning car between applications of metal polish ???
Can anyone give a reason for that?
I was only making a suggestion to try the metal polish as I did (in a previous statement in this thread) and see if it makes a difference.
This is for those layout owners that are tired of using the cleaning car each and ever time they want to run the layout.
If YOU do not have to clean the track every time then don’t use this method!
It is only for those that are tired of the cleaning process and are ready to try anything else. ;-)
I think Bob was making a generalized statement that many modelers claim they have to clean their tracks before operating sessions. I don't think he was trying to put words in anyone's mouth.
Since Bob tried the metal polish over 4 years ago, he may have been the one to pass on the gleaming process, although he just mentions the use of metal polish and not the sanding and burnishing before the polishing.
I think that sanding and burnishing is an integral part of the total process. If anyone has been using a Bright Boy track cleaning eraser, it is almost certain that the tracks have tiny, microscopic scratches on the tops of the rails which accelerates the accumulation of dirt on the rails, which accelerates the oxidation of the rails, which necessitates CLEANING the tracks again and again. Using a very fine grit sandpaper reduces the scratches, but won't eliminate them. The burnishing is what really "polishes" the tops of the rails. The stainless steel is much harder than the nickel-silver rail so it tends to flatten any rough areas on the rails. The metal polish is the final step in the process and completes the dressing of the rails.
All I know for sure is that the process works, and works very well, thank you! I have had to re-do a few short sections and that may be attributed to not having done a good job in the first place. Some of the areas I've had to re-do are hard to reach. I sure don't mind doing a small section from time to time since the rest of the layout performs so well.
Just my opinion, but I will be eternally grateful to the unknown person who passed along this labor-saving process.
Darrell, quiet...for now
Jeffery
It may be!
It is hard to believe that my layout is still running and I really and truly have done nothing to the track in reguards to cleaning.
I have begun to look closely at the rails and it is really looking bad. There seems to be a lot of discoloration on the rail tops BUT the engines just keep on running smoothly.
I am planning on running the layout until the engines just won't run on it smoothly anymore before I do any reapplying of the metal polish! 3 and 1/2 years and counting!
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Cleaning track is just that cleaning. But using metal polish protects the track from the dirt just as waxing your cars paint finish!
Cleaning has to be done continuously. This is where the modeling community is in a rut and why there are so many companies out there producing cleaning cars. Everyone stated that I run my (fill in the blank here) type of car before I run my layout. GEE! That sounds like fun. When I want to go play trains I want to do just that not clean the track so then I can play trains. This is where the metal polish has stopped the complete waste of time having to c lean the track before I ever begin to run the trains. This has been going on since the beginning of time (relative to model trains)
Now Fast forward here to the present time and if anyone remembers in MR magazine someone suggested using metal polish to clean and protect the track. I too thought that this was a joke as I had and was using at the time just about every type of cleaning car from drags to wet machines to powered vacuums. I also tried what ever was the latest liquid that was popular that week.
While they all did just what they were supposed to (CLEAN the track) I was back doing it all over again in 2 weeks before the next Ops session. I also had to clean the engine wheels several times during each Ops session. The group was beginning to get real tired of this cleaning thing. One problem was that while I was cleaning the mainline and passing sidings I could not get into each and every industrial track as they had cars in them. So while the mains ran OK as soon as the switching began the engines picked up dirt from the industrial spurs and we were back to the same old thing.
I had bottle of liquid metal polish (Blue Magic from Wal-Mart) and after remembering the article in MR I tried the polish. I figured that it would last about as long as the other cleaners did.
I only did a short section that was basically an industrial track but had a lot of sidings. The engines smoothed out immediately and ran all night without needing the wheels cleaned several times (which was a first). Two weeks later this same section of track ran smooth as silk all evening and again NO wheel cleaning. Now the rest of the layout was having the usual engine cleanings all evening.
Two weeks later this same section of track continued to run smooth. So I tried another area on the layout with an engine that really did not like to run smooth. Well this section smoothed out the engine operation. As I ran this new section I was taking a coal drag down hill. As I pulled the engine out onto the main (which everyone else had been running on and had been cleaned earlier that night) the engine began acting up. Jerky motion that I had experienced weeks before was back. I figured that I needed to clean the wheels but wanted to clear the main line before I did the cleaning. I pulled the engine and the empty coal drag back onto the previously polished track and the engine immediately smoothed back out. At that point I shut down the layout and all of my operators helped me polish the track with the liquid metal polish.
That was back in July 2003. I have not had to clean (as in reapply the metal polish again)! It is now coming up on 3 ½ years since I last cleaned the track. Engine wheel cleaning has dropped to once every month maybe! My sound engines never miss a beat, no sound drop outs, nothing!
Now my layout has over 2800 feet of track on it and there are over 850 cars. So this is not something that is a fluke. I am adding scenery and ballasting track continually as well as adding new sections or rebuilding of track all of the time.
The most I do is when getting ready for an Ops night is remove all of the tools and equipment and just wipe down the rails with a rag. No polish, no cleaners what so ever.
Now before you say it ain’t this way just come over and run on this layout. The track is beginning to look real bad. There is no shiny look to the tops of the rails any more, yet the engines just keep on running. Over on the Trains forum others have tried the metal polish and reported similar results. Now my situation is not much different from most layouts. I have no heat in the basement, other than some little electric heaters I only run on Ops nights, where the layout is located. I do have a drop ceiling and the walls are painted drywall. I have a few rugs on the cement floor where the operators have to stand a lot during switching but for the most part the cement is showing through in a lot of places. And the dust is gathering on the buildings. So the room is far from being dust free.
But I will NEVER EVER go back to the old way of cleaning my rails again. You all can do what you like (which from the sounds of things is cleaning your track) but I have left that PITA project go way back in 2003.
jeffrey-wimberly wrote:I had track cleaning problems myself. I had to clean the track every 2 or 3 days, then I learned about the GLEAM process. It involves sanding the track with 600 grit or finer sandpaper, then burnishing the rails with a piece of stainless steel. I use the bent over handle of a stainless steel spoon on mine. Then I apply a small amount of Blue Magic metal polish to a piece of cork roadbed and run it gently over the rails, inline with the track, let it dry and then buff it off with a clean piece of cork. I did the entire layout. Mine's not as big as yours, but it still pretty substantial. Make sure ALL the polish is removed from the rails, otherwise you'll have the arduous task of cleaning it off the wheels of your loco(s) and rolling stock. I used this process last June and haven't had to clean my track since, except for little spot spills of plaster dust or sand.
This is the answer, fellas!!!
I've known about this process for over a year, but I was skeptical of it's reported advantages. About 6 months ago, I did a test on a long siding on the front of my layout. In the past, I might be able to run trains for several days or a week before having to perform major cleaning again. My grandsons were always disappointed when I had to tell them "the layout's not working right now". (I'm not sure who was disappointed more, me or them!)
Back to the test: over a one month period, I tested two locos on the siding. EVERY time I powered them up, THEY RAN!!! EVERY TIME!! Switch them onto the mainline and it was back to herky-jerky motion with the often-needed finger push. As far as I was concerned, the test proved to me that the Gleaming process works! I didn't have time before Thanksgiving to work on my layout, but between Thanksgiving and Christmas, I gleamed the whole layout. It too THREE DAYS to do everything, and my layout isn't that big!!
It was a lot of work, and there were a few spots I had to redo. But Christmas with the grandkids was AWESOME! We ran trains all afternoon!
Since Christmas, I haven't run too many trains, but every time I've put something on the track, it ran smoothly! Just a few weeks ago, my granddaughter and I pulled ALL the locos out of storage and tested them on the layout. (We found a few that needed work or repair!) Of the locos that didn't need work, ALL OF THEM RAN WELL on the gleamed tracks!!
I am converted!! Every once in a while, I still find a spot or two that needs to be reworked, and it only takes a few minutes to do it, then it's back to running trains! Wish I had known about this YEARS ago!
I've been talking about building a larger layout. Two things that were delaying the construction was the difficulty of keeping the tracks clean and the amount of hidden track my first plan required. With gleaming, the cleaning track problem has virtually been eliminated! I'm working on a different track plan now that doesn't have as much hidden trackage. If I can get what I want, the delays will be over!! (Well, not completely. I still have to get the rest of the junk out of the spare bedroom where the layout will go! Including this computer!! LOL)
I can't say enough about how well the gleaming process works. I wish I could remember who passed the idea along to me on a forum. I'd like to offer my thanks and unending gratitude!
Darrell, mean, clean and runnin' steam!, and quiet...for now
You got it USN... best time to polish is before. Otherwise, just do a section a time. Much less daunting.
One of the biggest secrets to a clean layout is... the room itself. The cleaner, the better. Watch for windows that might allow dust. Try and avoid painting or working in the room (i.e. sanding dust, etc.) Also, make sure the air supply (if you have it) comeing into the room is blowing clean air in. If it isnt, might think of installing a filter over the vent. A air cleaner could a wise investment, even a cheap on and keep it in the middle or by the high traffic areas.
Unfortuntly, my layout is in the garage. I am renting so makeing improvements is a limited scope of options. And being in Arizona, I can even begin to explain the dust issue. its incredible. I bight my frustraion with the knowledge that someday.... I will have a nice, clean room.. someday.
Best Regards, Big John
Kiva Valley Railway- Freelanced road in central Arizona. Visit the link to see my MR forum thread on The Building of the Whitton Branch on the Kiva Valley Railway
so I'm taking away from this a lesson: If your getting ready to build a layout with other than brand new track, put a real good cleaning and polishing on those track sections BEFORE commiting them to the layout!! I'm thinking the track will be very easy to clean and polish while still pieces in hand, and likely last longer between cleanings after it's on your layout.
USNRol
Metro Red Line wrote:Can one use a Dremel to do the polishing? If so then what bit would work?