Looking for layout ideas, my train room is a perfect square (15' X 20") with no impediments. I plan on having an around the room layout, with walk around control and a duck under of roughly 52" where you enter the room. I would like to model N & W coal operations during the 70's. I want plenty of switching, i.e. industries and yards and also want the ability to have trains run continuously around my entire layout while I attend to working and switching in the yard etc. Most often there will only be one operator for the layout.
As far as the "general layout/shape" of the layout goes, I am definately drawn to an "E" shaped layout suck as the one (Idaho - Montana Railway) discussed in the 2007 Model Railroad Planning Guide. Being new to the hobby I need all the help I can get. I am also attracted to the double decker layout incorporated in the Idaho-Montana RY mentioned above, but feel that its much too complicated an undertaking for a novice. How difficult would it be to add another level to the layout later on down the road? I will continue to read and study all that I can and hope to start building soon.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you , Mike Pedri
For now, I would stick to a single-level plan. That's a rather large area to begin with.
Next, draw up a room plan with doors and windows. Be aware of which way the door opens, in or out, left or right. Will you need / want to get to the windows for ventilation? Paint and soldering smell bad. Will you have a workbench in another room, or will all your train work be done here? If so, plan for your workbench area, too.
Download one of the free track planning packages - either Sillub's XTrakCad or Atlas RTS is fine. Use the program to define the room space, and then start playing with track plans.
And my final plug - think about a lift-off bridge or possibly a hinged bridge (either swing or a drawbridge) instead of that duck-under.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
How difficult is it to add another level to an existing layout? The room is actually a loft with no windows and one door which opens away from the layout room. I will definately consider a liftout etc but have heard they can be very troublesome and difficult to install? I plan on having a work bench tucked under the layout but painting etc. will be done in the garage to the greatest extent possible.
I recently purchased Cadrail and the level of difficulty is high as I am just starting to play with it.
Thanks for the advice
pedfly60 wrote: How difficult is it to add another level to an existing layout?
How difficult is it to add another level to an existing layout?
It depends on how well you plan a head for it. Plan well, it will be relatively easy.
Like Mr. Beasley said, you have a lot of railroad with 15 x 20. That's quite an endeavor for a first-timer. You might start smaller and plan to expand. The thing is you will grow in the hobby as you go along. If you start with a double decker and two years into it you decide you like a different style of operating or you figure out what staging is and you didn't plan for it, then you have put a lot of money and effort into a large layout that doesn't meet your needs.
A couple reading suggestions:
Track Planning for Realistic Operation, by John Armstrong. This is the designer's Bible. IT will teach you what you need to know to design a model railroad (as opposed to a glorified toy train.) It may take you 3 reading s to get it.
Mid-sized and Manageable Track Plans, by Iain Rice. Not only are there some excellent track plans for about your size area, the discussion of the relationship between Layout size, Time and Money is priceless. It was reading this that made me decide to forget my upper level and concentrate on a well-functioning single level.
My article, "SpaceMouse's Beginner's Guide to Layout Design" the link is in my signature.
My Article "What is Staging and Why do I need it."
http://www.chipengelmann.com/trains/Beginner/Staging.html
Good luck. And take your time planning. Planning well now, saves ripping things out later.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
What scares me most in the bench work and how to design and build. I am currently building a house which hopefully should be complete next month and I have spoke with the contractor about building my benchwork for me once the house is completed. I like the "E" shaped layout which would allow for a continuous loop all the way around the room. I gave him a copy of the layout which I saw in the Model Railroad Planning 2007 magazine just the other day, so that he can begin to figure out the buiding process etc. My plan was to just have him build the benchwork the best way he could with a plywood surface. I then planned to use a layer of foam sheeting on top of that but not sure if that is a good idea or not?
I am not much of a carpenter so I think I could save a tremendous amount of time by having him build the benchwork which I can only assume is one of the most important steps in building a layout. Thank you, Mike Pedri
The hard part about adding the second level isn't the benchwork, it's the track that takes you between the levels. One option is a helix - a circular "slinky" of track that loops around over and over again, climbing a few inches each time around. Many of these are done in "hidden" track areas, behind scenery or on the other side of a wall in a storeroom. For solid operation, a helix needs to be at least 4 or 5 feet across. The other option is a long ramp, which you could probably deal with given the amount of space you've got. In either case, the more separation you have between levels, the longer a transition you will need.
If you really want to plan ahead for a second level, I would decide how to place a long ramp, somewhere along the longest straight wall, at the back of the layout. When you get to laying track, actually build the ramp with track, at least up about 4 inches over your base level. Then, when you decide to build the second level, you won't have anything below that you have to rip out, and you can connect directly up to the original ramp.
It certainly wouldn't hurt to have a contractor build your benchwork. Having been a contractor though, I would have to says that I had a tendency to overbuild and make no allowances for things that might concern a model railroader like humidity and warpage.
But that being said, the contractor can come back at any time. Don't build until you have a plan. The benchwork is that last part of the plan. You build the benchwork (even in your head) you are limiting yourself to other, perhaps better, possibilities. Don't be in a hurry. Get the plan right. You didn't start building your house until the plan was right, did you?
For most model railroads, the benchwork is way over-done. In your case, you probably will not need to climb on the table at any point. So, all you need is enough structure to support the trains and layout firmly. My own layout is a free-standing table on wheels, so light construction was important to me. I chose 2-inch foam as my base material, with no plywood at all.
The outer frame is 1x4 lumber, and the inner rafters are 1x3. The legs are 2x3, and the diagonal braces are 1x2. I used scrap plywood for the angular gussets at the top of the legs. This frame is quite rigid, and it doesn't twist or sag, even when pushing it around with its wheels on the carpet. When I took the legs off and carried it upstairs, I lifted it with one hand.
I'm not a carpenter either, but I built this in a weekend. I've got a circular saw and an electric drill, but the rest was all done with hand tools.
As you progress in model railroading, you'll constantly discover that the next job involves learning a new skill. This is only the first opportunity of many to develop capabilities you never thought you'd have.
A couple piggy-back thoughts in addition to those already offered...
[1] Go for "The Model Railroader's Guide to Coal Railroading" by Tony Koester
http://kalmbachcatalog.stores.yahoo.net/12453.html
[2] The links for the two other essential research books are...
"Track Planning for Realistic Operation" by John Armstrong
http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=I&MAG=BOOK&MO=4&YR=1979&output=5
"How to Build Model Railroad Benchwork" by Linn Westcott
http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?opt=I&MAG=BOOK&MO=3&YR=1996&output=3
[3] You also have the room to do a peninsula in the middle of the room for some walkaround potential, and; a peninsula does not have to be absolutely square but can have rounded corners and contours.
[4] You might decide to stay with one layout level, instead of two levels & helix complications, and; to gain elevation you can use "spirals" in the middle of a run, or a reverse loop, or at the end of a dogbone.
I would suggest taking your good old time reviewing those three books to get a vision of what you really want to accomplish. Visioning is important let alone you will save wasted dollars in the long-run.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
Mike:
I have a 20 x 20' train room that I obtained from management when we built our retirement home. What I have done is build my bench work in modular style. The units are 6' and 23 1/2" wide. The width is to accommodate the variances in foam width.
I have an around the wall layout with a peninsula. I precut all of my bench work out of 3/4" birch plywood. I predrilled the cross members to accommodate wiring. The majority of my sections are connected to the perimeter walls with angled braces. The main level is 45" high.
What I might suggest is that you have your contractor cut the pieces for you and you can assemble them later when you have your plan finalized. By having modules you can build as desired with the only constraints being the module size. (2x4) (2x6) etc.
I have a shop so it was easy for me but you can use your contractor for the part that requires special equipment (table saw)( drill press) ... You could put the pieces together yourself with screws ...
Part of the fun of this hobby is discovering the talents that you have but just have not had a chance to use....The most important thing is to have fun....
Best regards,
Roger
Some suggestions for building your benchwork, which I followed (so it MUST be right) when I built my layout. Yes, it's probably over-built, but is that bad? This IS the foundation for the entire layout on which you will be spending YEARS working on it. The reesult will be smooth curves, and low noise when operating.
1. Mark a prefectly level line around the walls where the benchwork will hang. I used a water level instead of a conventional level. It's more work, but I'm guaranteed withing 1/8" of perfectly level over any distance.
2. Build the benchwork like you'd build a wall, using 2X4 construction. You can bang it together using a nail gun. You screw it to the wall, and install legs to hold up the front. The legs can be 2X2's. You want to build it so it cannot move no matter what you do to it.
3. At this point drill plenty of 3/4" or 1" holes in the interior 2X4's anywhere you think you may want to run wires in the future. If you have to, make it look like swiss cheese.
4. Glue and screw 3/4" type ACX plywood over the entire deck. At this point you can climb all over the layout. It'll be plenty strong to hold you up.
This is probably where you'd have your builder end, but it's all stuff you could easily do yourself.
5. Cover the plywood with butcher paper, and draw full-scale your layout. From this you will build any of your templates for the risers.
6. Where you transition up from the table top you'll cut the top and glue it to your riser and bend the plywood up for your vertical curve transition. You'll splice your risers together with scrap pieces of 3/4" plywood.
7. Overlay the entire layout with 1" foam. Noise is caused by vibrating the plywood, and the foam will help to dampin the vibrations from the trains.
8. Lay cork over the foam for your roadbeds.
I have plenty of suggestion on how to easily lay out easements and curves using pre-cut templates. I spent close to a week laying out my layout after I had already drawn it out on the computer, and my room is smaller than yours.
Have fun!
Mark in Utah
Thanks guys for your input, I really appreciate. Some of you guys mentioned attaching the layout to the wall for extra support etc, but in my case I'm afraid that won't be possible. My train room is upstairs and once you get away from the center of the room which measures 15 X 20, the ceilings come down at an angle sort of like the shape of a barn or loft. If I'm able to attach the layout to the walls, it would just be the two 15' walls and not the two 20' walls due to the shape of the room.
I have been studying track plans for months now and even purchased the cadrail program which I must confess represents a huge learning curve, all in an attempt to come up with my own layout. Until recently I've had little to no success at designing a layout for my space. All that changed after I discovered a layout in the 2007 Model Railroad planning guide. The layout is the Idaho - Montana Railway. The layout is shapped like an "E" and even though it is a double decker layout it has definately peeked my interest. I'm really convinced this is the style layout I would like to go with but with a single deck for now and provisions for the upper deck maybe later on.
I'm excited about getting started but still a bit nervous. The house and the room should be done in about a month so I still have some time for final decisions.
Again thank you guys, Mike Pedri
pedfly60 wrote: Thanks guys for your input, I really appreciate. Some of you guys mentioned attaching the layout to the wall for extra support etc, but in my case I'm afraid that won't be possible. My train room is upstairs and once you get away from the center of the room which measures 15 X 20, the ceilings come down at an angle sort of like the shape of a barn or loft. If I'm able to attach the layout to the walls, it would just be the two 15' walls and not the two 20' walls due to the shape of the room. I have been studying track plans for months now and even purchased the cadrail program which I must confess represents a huge learning curve, all in an attempt to come up with my own layout. Until recently I've had little to no success at designing a layout for my space. All that changed after I discovered a layout in the 2007 Model Railroad planning guide. The layout is the Idaho - Montana Railway. The layout is shapped like an "E" and even though it is a double decker layout it has definately peeked my interest. I'm really convinced this is the style layout I would like to go with but with a single deck for now and provisions for the upper deck maybe later on.I'm excited about getting started but still a bit nervous. The house and the room should be done in about a month so I still have some time for final decisions.Again thank you guys, Mike Pedri
I'd like to caution you to remain flexible. Finish your plan as completely as you can before you start any benchwork. You have mentioned two druthers and two givens. This is the place to start with your givens and druthers. Your givens represent things you can't change and your druthers are things you do want and can compromise if you need to.
Givens:
15 x 20 available space
sloped roof
Druthers:
Idaho Montana Theme
E-shape
How closely you can adapt the I-M layout depends on how well your space fits his design, how you want diverge from his theme, your skills, and the available models that you can obtain. Your CadRail program will be invaluable. You have to make a few decisions. If you have not read my primer like I suggested before read it It will take all of 5 minutes. I suggest you do. It can save you a lot of money and aggravation. Don't start with trackwork in your design. It is the fastest way to box yourself into a corner. Start with the road name and era you want to model.
Road name determines possible locations.
Locations determine landscape and industry.
Industry is limited by available models or your scratch-building skills.
Available models determine trackwork requirements.
You also need to know what your current interests are in terms of operating your rail road. And you want to guess as best you can, how you will grow in the hobby so that you can build a layout that will grow with your interests, instead of you out growing the layout before it is completed. This is a large investment of both time and money. The only time you have to plan is now. Don't be in such a hurry to build.
AS good as the I-M layout is, it is the builder's dream not yours. Ideas are good, but without your dream they are just ideas. Find your dream, then build it.