Hello i am trying help a friend get his rather large HO home layout operating better than he, since he has had alot difficulties. Being green to Dcc i am learning as we go.Let me set the stage before I ask my question. When I say large I mean large. In an area of about 18by20 he has a double main, a single main, and a narrow gauge, the layout extends into another room with a very long passing track and a 4 track stage area. All of his loco's steam & diesel all have sound. He has Lenze Dcc. which i have found out is only 3amp system. The layout is broken up in sections so each area can be powered up individualy as follows, the double main, single main, passing track, stageing yard were each yard track has a power cut off. The narrow gauge is separet. Nowthe question. When adding power district's can the common rail be used and just gap the power power rails as they are. Hope i have explained this well enough. Thank's for any help. Almost forgot, you can go from the double main to the single main and back.
Larry
Do NOT use common rail. Gap BOTH rails. With such a large layout and only a 3 amp system currently, he will probably want or need additional boosters down the line to support more running trains.
At a macro level, each of the double mains, plus the single main, plus the narrow gauge, would make 4 power districts. For a more detailed view, consider where trains run at any given time. If there's a large yard, or a dedicated switching area, those make good candidates for additional power districts, because when switching it is more likely to derail something and, if metal wheels are used, short the track. So if the yard is on its own, a derailment there won't stop the express rolling by on the nearby main.
Each power district does not need a booster. If there is sufficient power to run the required trains, a simple circuit breaker like Tony's Powershields will serve to break up the layout into power management sections. Any and all can have trains runnign at a given time, subject to the limits of the booster, and a short in any one will not affect the others.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
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larry
I think with dcc you shouldn't use common raill wiring, gap both rails.
hope this helps try reading this: http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track_2.htm#a40
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rrinker wrote: Do NOT use common rail. Gap BOTH rails. With such a large layout and only a 3 amp system currently, he will probably want or need additional boosters down the line to support more running trains. At a macro level, each of the double mains, plus the single main, plus the narrow gauge, would make 4 power districts. For a more detailed view, consider where trains run at any given time. If there's a large yard, or a dedicated switching area, those make good candidates for additional power districts, because when switching it is more likely to derail something and, if metal wheels are used, short the track. So if the yard is on its own, a derailment there won't stop the express rolling by on the nearby main. Each power district does not need a booster. If there is sufficient power to run the required trains, a simple circuit breaker like Tony's Powershields will serve to break up the layout into power management sections. Any and all can have trains runnign at a given time, subject to the limits of the booster, and a short in any one will not affect the others. --Randy
I'd also recommend breaking up the double main into at least two power districts, if not four. As you point out, they can run off the same booster or ultimately be pwoered from an additional booster. Breaking the main up will increase the maximum amount of units that could run on the double main at one time. It also would make troubleshooting easier.
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I think I did suggest that as a starting poit. "double mains, single main, and narrow gauage, that's 4 districts right there"
Of course, I have the wiring in place to divide my 8x12 into 6 districts - inside and outside main each divided into 2 halves, plus the yard on the front and the remaining industry sidings on the back. But right now it's all jumpered together - but then there's usually only 1 person running trains.
rrinker wrote: I think I did suggest that as a starting poit. "double mains, single main, and narrow gauage, that's 4 districts right there" Of course, I have the wiring in place to divide my 8x12 into 6 districts - inside and outside main each divided into 2 halves, plus the yard on the front and the remaining industry sidings on the back. But right now it's all jumpered together - but then there's usually only 1 person running trains. --Randy
I meant breaking the double main itself into 4 districts. Either way, we are saying generally the same thing. I have a 12x13 layout with 10 power districts. So you are at 1 per 16 sq. ft and I am at 1 to 15.6 sq ft. Maybe a good rule of thumb ? On his layout that would work out to 22.5 power districts. Maybe as the layouts get larger the ratio goes up ?
rrinker wrote:Do NOT use common rail. Gap BOTH rails.
With a Lenz the 3 amp limit isn't because of the system, just the power supply. I am running my Lenz with 5 amps. It should be very easy to put a larger power supply on it. The addition of an LZ102 will allow a power supply of 10 amps.
I would like to as a side question regarding rail gaps. What is used, if anything after you make your gap to keep the rails in line?
Thanks
MO
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MOJAX wrote:I would like to as a side question regarding rail gaps. What is used, if anything after you make your gap to keep the rails in line?
jbinkley60 wrote: rrinker wrote: I think I did suggest that as a starting poit. "double mains, single main, and narrow gauage, that's 4 districts right there" Of course, I have the wiring in place to divide my 8x12 into 6 districts - inside and outside main each divided into 2 halves, plus the yard on the front and the remaining industry sidings on the back. But right now it's all jumpered together - but then there's usually only 1 person running trains. --Randy I meant breaking the double main itself into 4 districts. Either way, we are saying generally the same thing. I have a 12x13 layout with 10 power districts. So you are at 1 per 16 sq. ft and I am at 1 to 15.6 sq ft. Maybe a good rule of thumb ? On his layour that would work out to 22.5 power districts. Maybe as the layouts get larger the ratio goes up ?
I meant breaking the double main itself into 4 districts. Either way, we are saying generally the same thing. I have a 12x13 layout with 10 power districts. So you are at 1 per 16 sq. ft and I am at 1 to 15.6 sq ft. Maybe a good rule of thumb ? On his layour that would work out to 22.5 power districts. Maybe as the layouts get larger the ratio goes up ?
Well, I think it really depends on the track plan. A 20x50 layout with jst a double track main line running along it doesn't need 20+ power districts. The same space filled with track, yards, sidings, branch lines, etc, will need more power districts. I never hooked mine up because so far I haven't needed them. ANd even if I had 3 people running trains, I would never need 6, 3 would be more like it for my layout. Soume peopel would say taht with 2 peopel runnign double-headed mainlien trains and a third running a yard switcher, I'd need more pwoer tham me 2.5 amp Zephyr. But I've run 8 locos at once, 4 of those having sound. Plenty of capacity. Were I to be stayign here and finishign my grand railroad plan I'd need more booster, more for ditance reasons than for power reasons. My basement is long and narrow, if I didn;t distribute boosters along the layout I'd have bus runs in excess of 70 feet. I'm not going to try dragging #4 wire under the layout, much easier to just run a Loconet cable and plug in a booster closer to the track it powers.
Also something to consider for the original poster, you say he has problems and it doesn't run very well - on a layout that size there should be many, many track feeders. About every 6 feet, 3 if you are paranoid. Relying on the track and rail joiners to carry power willr esult in slowdown and stalls. Using inadequate bus wire will result in voltage drops and slowdowns even if there are plenty of feeders. Keep this in mind when planning power districts. A good way to do this is to sketch the track plan and look for logical sections based on track plan and expected use of various sections. Heavily utilized areas may need more power districts that are smaller, vs a large area that only ever sees one train at a time.
This last observation is very good thinking, Randy, and one of the reasons I keep an eye on your responses. I always seem to learn something.
-Crandell
I am in the same position as Randy - I am the only one running trains.
I used inputs from Mr. B and Joe F. to come up with my plan. Currently all of the isolated districts are "jumpered" off one 5amp booster. I will add two PSFours and break it out into the eight districts - for short protection. Once the PSFours are in place I can then "jumper" each PSFour to the appropriate booster. Again, I'll start with the one booster and add as number of trains and operators grows.
To offer a visual, see the following PDF. Layout is 16 x 21, so roughly same size.
http://home.austin.rr.com/tomsandy/BreakerDist.pdf
Hope this helps and regards,
Tom
Thank you all for all of the input. Plenty of work ahead.