OK, I am about to get some foams for the base because a lot of people use foams including the Model RR dvd showcase. Buy why we do we need foams? What is the advantage as opposed to directly laying the scenic items on the plywood?
Thanks,
Rudy
There are a lot of answers to that question. Here are some
1. It gives a base that alows some easy contour carving.
2. If is ideal for staring buildupts for mountains.
3. It is light weight. You don't need as thick a plywood, and some use no plywood.
4. It seems to give a better base for ground cover.
5. Because I get my foam from dumpsters around construction sites it is cheaper.
However, I do not use it for perfectly flat surfaces. I just don't have many of those. There are lots of other good reasons, plus some good reasons to not use it as base.
I like foam best for stacking and making mountains and valleys. I like it because you can carve all the detail in the foam and not use plaster.
That is a start, lets see what else you get for answers.
Foam is very forgiving and a lot cheaper than plywood. All of the reasons in the first reply are very valid. If you need to remove a piece or cut a hole for a river etc, its very easy in foam and there is a base underneath when you're through.
Try Home Depot or Lowe's for the foam - they have 1 1/2 and sometimes 1/2" building insulation in 4 x 8 sheets for around 10 or 12 bucks. I use Liguid Nails foramboard adhesive to attach it to a 1/4" plywood base. Then you can attach whatever you want to the foam with just about any kind of adhesive - white glue is OK, cheap clear adhesive caulk is great, and hot glue works well but be sure to get the low heat kind. Don't use any CA type adhesive as it eats right through it.
dadret wrote:Foam is very forgiving and a lot cheaper than plywood. All of the reasons in the first reply are very valid. If you need to remove a piece or cut a hole for a river etc, its very easy in foam and there is a base underneath when you're through. Try Home Depot or Lowe's for the foam - they have 1 1/2 and sometimes 1/2" building insulation in 4 x 8 sheets for around 10 or 12 bucks. I use Liguid Nails foramboard adhesive to attach it to a 1/4" plywood base. Then you can attach whatever you want to the foam with just about any kind of adhesive - white glue is OK, cheap clear adhesive caulk is great, and hot glue works well but be sure to get the low heat kind. Don't use any CA type adhesive as it eats right through it.
Don't usually like to disagree with other posters, but....
Relative price of foam and plywood varies significantly with region of the country you live. In many parts of California, when you can find foam it can be twice the price of 1/2" plywood.
If you prefer to start with flat surface tabletops, foam is probably the easiest way to get scenery, both above and below track grade. Since you have a closed surface from underneath, stacking foam for elevated scenery poses no real disadvantage. But you still have to create access panels or lift-off scenery sections for any hidden track.
If you are using an open grid framework with plywood or other subroadbed under the track locations only, foam is a relatively awkward way to build your scenery. One of the thin shell scenery bases gives you easy access from underneath to your hidden track, wiring, switch machines, under-the-track uncoupling ramps, etc.
Final point of comparison is weight. In many situations, scenery weight is not important. In modular and portable layouts (and some shelf layouts), weight can be critical. Where weight is critical, foam can be your friend. However, covering foam with a layer of plaster undoes the weight savings.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
I will have to Agree with the last poster, You have to remember that with more engines, the more weight you have, the more support that you have to add to the layout.
I personally started to use foam on my re-build, then I found that the more engines I had running, or stationary then the more WOODEN supports I had to add to the section. Personally I run heavy steam rivarossi engines, from 0-4-0's to 4-8-8-2's and let me tell you that wood is the better way to go for that style of engines.
I made a roundhouse with foam (Foolish Mistake), and had the roundhouse 6/8's all the way around. with Berkshires in the house's and the big boys, and let me tell you, talk about a sagging table. LOL looked like i added a sunken pond there instead of a level roundhouse, besides a 130' turntable that has to fit perfectly and so do the tracks. And the foam was 3" thick. 400.00 worth of foam surface to waste (Almost), At least I can use it for scenery., Plus insulate the room more where I have my layout.
So it is a matter of what you have, what scenery you will use, and (weight) of that section of it. how many engines, how many cars, will you have a small or large yard. and above all, the scale. anyting HO and below ( again depending on equipment ) will work, Plus again depends on your under layment.
Personally I use 1/2" partical ply with a 1/8th inch ply section on top, with 2x4 frame construction in the under laying. Costs more to do, but I wanted to make sure that I had a stable top to crawl upon IF I ever needed to, and I can move the layout as well, in sections of 2' x 4' and 4'x4' sections.
"Sometimes the Most real things in life, are the things we can not see."
Hawk007 wrote: I will have to Agree with the last poster, You have to remember that with more engines, the more weight you have, the more support that you have to add to the layout.
This is true with any form of layout construction, whether the layout is foam-based, homasote or wood (or even steel!). But adding more support under a layout doesn't mean that you need a LOT of support under foam.
Part of the appeal of foam layout construction is in its strength: for the lightness of the material, it's surprisingly strong, and will easliy and effectively support more weight than a typical small scale (Z thru S) will usually add to a benchwork surface. Unless you're running solid gold Big Boys and using concrete for rock molds, 2" foam, 1/4" plywood, and conventional steel shelf brackets will be more than sufficient to hold up (and KEEP up) a layout, especially a linear, shelf-type layout (a tabletop like a 4x8 will need some sort of legs)
I personally started to use foam on my re-build, then I found that the more engines I had running, or stationary then the more WOODEN supports I had to add to the section. Personally I run heavy steam rivarossi engines, from 0-4-0's to 4-8-8-2's and let me tell you that wood is the better way to go for that style of engines...with Berkshires in the house's and the big boys, and let me tell you, talk about a sagging table.
This is really odd. I used to own a large fleet of Rivarossi steamers, and I would call them anything BUT heavy. I currently run mostly reweighed modern plastic engines, brass and white metal steam, all of which are MUCH heavier than Rivarossi models, and I've never experienced ANY sagging of my foam. My layout base is 2" foam, 1/4" ply, and nothing else. I know a modeler who has a LARGE home layout that's even more spartan: 2" foam on 1x3 homemade shelf brackets, with NO plywood under the foam. That layout has been up for over 10 years, features LARGE brass steam running on a 10 scale mile long mainline hauling long trains, and which has two long yards and three large engine servicing facilities. He has had NO sagging on his minimalist foam-based layout, and in areas where 10-15 brass engines are sitting in the same place, that's a testament to the durability of foam.
Ray Breyer
Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943
Have fun with your trains
OK, I have to admit there may be merits to foam tabletop construction but I'm from the old school and when it comes to mounting turnout motors (Tortoises) I've seen some postings here about HOW do I mount them to foam board. Sure, I guess you could glue a little scrap of plywood and mount the machine to that but there is still the issue of a one or two inch length added to the actuating wire.
I've seen layout plans that show a piece of 1" foam on top of a 1-1/4 inch hollow core door! Now there's 2-1/4" of dead space between the roadbed and the switch motor!
I'll stick with 3/4" plywood and 1/4" cork roadbed. I've used 1/2 " ply and 1/2" Homasote with success also... Your choice, just my $.02
The Tortoise has plenty of power to run through the extra distance - hence in the future I will just glue them on the bottom of the foam. The same caulk I use for my track and roadbed holds them on just fine - no need for an additional square of plywood. Up til now, I have screwed the tortoises to a small square of perf board and mounted them from the top - not very difficult, and the operating distance is then only the thickness of the roadbed material. There are pictures on my web site of this.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.