Getting ready to start construction of my new train room, in my new house. The basement is not finished, so I have the benefit of using any flooring I want. Thus the question ... what type would you use. In all of my reading, I can't recall anyone discusing the benifits of any particular type. I was thinking some solid color vinyl, to be able to find dropped things easier, but I am not necessarily sold.
Thanks.
I just completed my train room in a new house. I chose to use Behr brand concrete stain on the new concrete floor. This is available at Home Depot and is a siliconized acrylic latex product with minimal odor and water clean-up. Since the concrete floor was new with no major dirt, i.e., grease, etc., but only some mud and other minor construction dirt, I scrubbed the floor thoroughly with a strong *** and Span solution, let it dry completely (approximately 1 week) and then put down a coat of the Behr Concrete Bonding Primer followed by two coats of the concrete stain with a roller following instructions on the can. I saved the excess stain for future touch-up in the event the coating gets damaged during layout construction. My thinking behind this was to use the concrete stain to seal the floor surface to prevent concrete dust from coming off and to enhance its appearance. After I've completed the messy parts of layout construction, especially those involving paint or plaster, I plan to install either commercial carpet or padded runners or carpet tiles in the aisles to make standing and walking easier. If necessary, these could be removed easily in the future. I don't think there is any point to putting carpeting on the entire floor since most of it will be hidden by the benchwork and if you eventually put skirting around the base of the benchwork, this will act as a sound deadener. Not having carpeting under the benchwork will also make it easier to work under it, especially if you do as I do, use a low desk chair with rollers to move around under the benchwork.
Bob
I'm a fence-straddler - all-around vinyl, with strips of solidly anchored short-nap industrial carpet in all the aisleways. Standing on a rigid floor for more than a few minutes at a time is murder on the feet, but the vinyl is a lot easier to search for missing screws and other small debris.
My own layout is a garage-dweller, with a slab floor (sloped about 1% toward the door) now vinylized (with the cheapest sheet goods I could find.) When the basic benchwork is all in and the aisle shapes are finalized, I'll chase down some odd ends and cuttings of carpet. In the meantime, the places where I stand are "softened" with thrift store throw rugs.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
preceng wrote: Getting ready to start construction of my new train room, in my new house. The basement is not finished, so I have the benefit of using any flooring I want. Thus the question ... what type would you use. In all of my reading, I can't recall anyone discusing the benifits of any particular type. I was thinking some solid color vinyl, to be able to find dropped things easier, but I am not necessarily sold. Thanks.
Painted the floor and then put down carpet.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
I'm lucky enough to have a "real" room upstairs, so it's got carpet. I wouldn't go any other way. Not only is it easier on your feet, it's easier on any fragile items that fall off the edge of the earth. It's not complete protection, of course, but a lot better than concrete for a plastic model.
Of course, having the TV in the Family Room means that I get thrown out when "The OC" is on, like right now.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I haven't done anything yet, it's still bare concrete. But I was looking at carpet tiles. ANd then along comes the most recent (Jan) issue of MR and what does TOny the K talk about? Carpet tiles. I thinkt hey are about ideal - soft padding to stand on, easy DIY install, AND if you mess one up by dropping a hot soldering iron on it or something, you can pull it out and just drop a new one in place. Easy to fit around benchwork legs too, just cut out a notch with a utility knife.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I just finished building a room in my garage. I put down carpet with a tight weave and a tweed color. Looks great and does make a big difference in sound. I have 2 knee implants so I find a softer floor easier on my legs. Good luck with whatever you choose
Tfer
Two years ago I discovered "Legato" carpeting by Milliken. At the time Home Cheapo had it on sale for $2.00/SF and that price compared favorably to other options.
I love this stuff. It is about 24" squares with a tacky backing that stays in place but can be peeled up if needed. When you replace a square just rub your shoe over the seam and it disappears!
It has the foam padding, a vapor barrier and a decent carpet weave all in one. Any paint or glue mishaps are easily cleaned by pulling up the square, taking it outside (or in a laundry tub) and hosing it off and allowing it to dry. It was also very easy to trim it around the existing layout legs which would be near impossible with any sheet goods.
Coincidentally, the January MR has a little blurb about Legato.
Ed
Tony Koester has an article in the January 2007 issue of Model Railroader on that exact topic. His article is about putting down Legato padded carpet tiles from Home Depot after his layout was in place.
You may want to hold off for a while. If you have a truly new home, you don't really know what kind of water surprises you are going to get in your basement. I bought my house last year, fairly new, and the basement looked great with plain old concrete floor. Then a really, really heavy rain (4 inches in one hour) came and put an inch of water in my basement. I was thinking about putting carpeting down there, but now I am glad I didnt. My previous house was a bit older and it had leak problems as well. It had a finished basement and I ended up tearing out the carpet once the mildew smell got too bad.
Finishing your basement is a gamble that can fill your life with all sorts of headaches and kill your wallet. There are ways to mitigate it, but no way to prevent it 100% of the time. Inspections and warranties and all that are great, but would you rather spend your time and money on the train or on lawyers, repairmen, and the like???
To me, spending a boat load of money just for a train setup (that has nothing to do with the train per se) is not a good way to go.
I've been giving some serious thought to a concrete floor coating - like Rust-Oleum EpoxyShield, although I don't have any experience with this kind of material. Over that I would run those thick rubber mats like those used in commercial kitchens, etc. That would make it easier to stand on for long periods.
I'm just not crazy about carpeting or floor covering. In 16 years I haven't had any water problems but there's always a first time - I don't ever want to be pulling up carpeting that was damaged by water, especially under a layout.
I just painted the basement floor in the area where I'll be moving my layout to and (hopefully) expanding it. The floor was already painted--twice. The original paint was oil-based (red) and many years ago I painted over it with latex (beige) not realising that oil paint will bond well to latex but latex won't bond well to oil-based paint. On the advice of the clerk in the paint store, I washed the floor thoroughly then roughed it up with 80 grit sandpaper. Then I applied a coat of special bonding primer that will help latex paint stick to oil paint. I finally went over it with a nice shade of grey latex paint. The reason I went with latex paint is that I had a bad experience with the fumes and flammability of oil-based paint in a basement many years ago. The important ingredient is the special bonding primer. Even if the floor is bare concrete, I would advise putting down this primer first. The paint store clerk told me how to determine if paint is oil-based or latex--rub it with a cloth moistened with acetone. If the colour rubs off easily, it's latex. If you don't have acetone, use fingernail polish remover--it's just diluted acetone with moisturizers and perfume added. I got a lot of very good advice from this paint store clerk, and I would advise anyone planning to paint a concrete floor to talk to a knowlegable paint store clerk and explain what you want to do to make sure you get the right products.
I will be putting carpet down only in the aisle. I don't feel there's a need to have carpet under the layout (although it would be easier to lie on). The carpet is just there to make it easier to stand on and I feel the layout legs would be more stable on the bare floor. Since I've got a bunch of old rubber-backed carpet lying around, I'm going to cut a strip off that. I'm too cheap to go out and buy new carpet just for that although if I did, I would seriously consider self-stick carpet tiles. They used those extensively where I used to work and they worked well.
..... Bob
Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life down here. (Captain Kirk)
I reject your reality and substitute my own. (Adam Savage)
Resistance is not futile--it is voltage divided by current.
I would be cautious about using epoxy-based paint on your concrete floor. Most have a significant odor associated with them and, it's my understanding, that they have a limited working time before they start to set. My son-in-law used one of the Rust-Oleum epoxy-based paints on his garage floor. He followed their instructions to the letter, including letting the new concrete cure for the proper time, proper cleaning and surface preparation and paint application. He even let the paint dry for a period three times longer than what they recommended. After parking his cars in his garage, the paint started to peel off under the car tires and the peeling then spread to other areas of the floor not under the cars. When he contacted Rust-Oleum about the peeling problem, they had no explanation for it. This is the reason I chose to use the Behr brand concrete stain applied over their concrete bonding primer.
I waited a year before finishing my new basement to allow the concrete floor to completely cure and dry and to allow for the appearance of any water problems in the basement. Before painting your concrete floor check to see the recommended cure time for new concrete. I believe it's usually several months.
The Legato carpet tiles look like a possible solution to getting a soft surface on your floor, at least in the aisles. I would test the adhesive they're held down with to be sure it'll not bring up floor paint if you need to remove them. Using carpet runners held down with two-faced carpet tape might also be a solution. These could be rolled up if it became necessary to remove them.
I would agree with Bob about waiting until the concrete cures. I have read other places that it takes as much as a year to get all the moisture out of newly poured cmeent. One way to tell is to tape a piece of pastic sheeting to the basement floor. If moisture appears on it, you need to wait. This may not always be accurate if you have a high water table in your area so take the results with a grain of salt.
On the other hand, I would disagree with Bob about using epoxy on the basement floor, if one uses the right kind. I used the Rustoleum Epoxy for basements and was very happy with it. In fact, my wife liked it so much she made me do the entire basement with it. That actually turned out to be a good thing because it really cuts down on the amount of dust. There is very little odor and it dissipates fairly quickly.
Hope this helps and good luck on whatever you decide.
Tom
Life is simple - eat, drink, play with trains!
Go Big Red!
PA&ERR "If you think you are doing something stupid, you're probably right!"
In my concrete-floored train room, I use the interlocking foam rubber pads in my aisles (the rest of the floor is painted with garage floor paint). They're 2 feet by 2 feet, about half an inch thick, and are very easy on my bony old feet!
They're not cheap, about $16 for a pack of 4, so I buy a couple of packs every few months.
At first, I'd just move them to wherever I was working and/or standing a lot. Now that I have my aisles pretty well covered, I have a couple I move around when I'm sitting under the layout. They're even better for sitting on!
They're also easily vacuumed. I don't bother trying to ccompletely clean off paint spills, so I don't know how they'd react to paint thinner, acetone, or the like.
Lowe's used to sell them in the floor covering department, and I've gotten them at Target, where they're sold as exercise pads.
I've seen these interlocking rubber mats at Lowes and Home Depot. At $16 for a package of 4 - 2' x 2' mats, this works out to be $1.00/ square foot. This is half the sale cost of the Legato carpet squares mentioned in one of the above posts. As I recall, these foam rubber mats have a textured but relatively smooth surface that would make locating dropped items easier. The only problem I had with the ones I saw was that they only came in red, blue, green, yellow and black. These are OK colors for exercise mats or for a kids room, but, except for the black, really aren't appropriate for a train room floor. Has anyone seen these mats in earth-tone colors?
RFinch wrote:I've seen these interlocking rubber mats at Lowes and Home Depot. At $16 for a package of 4 - 2' x 2' mats, this works out to be $1.00/ square foot. This is half the sale cost of the Legato carpet squares mentioned in one of the above posts. As I recall, these foam rubber mats have a textured but relatively smooth surface that would make locating dropped items easier. The only problem I had with the ones I saw was that they only came in red, blue, green, yellow and black. These are OK colors for exercise mats or for a kids room, but, except for the black, really aren't appropriate for a train room floor. Has anyone seen these mats in earth-tone colors? Bob
All the ones I bought at Lowe's and Target were a very dark gray, except one pack that had one each of red, yellow, blue and green. I put the red one at my utility sink, and use the other colored ones to move around under the layout. The grey ones are in my aisles.
One side is smooth, easily vacuumed, and most dropped "stuff" shows up pretty well. The other side is sort of ribbed, to keep them from slipping.
My Home Depot also carried them, in dark gray only, but dropped them a couple of years ago.
Do a Google search for "Interlocking foam pads" or the like.
To Pondini:
Thanks for the info. I'll look into the interlocking mats further.
bnsfncoal wrote:I had vinyl and replaced it with a commercial carpet. While you do have to be careful with paint and plaster and,and,and,and....it is easier on the feet and it makes the room a lot more quiet. I'm sure you will bet many,many opinions that why this forum is great.
I overcame the problem of keeping the carpet clean during construction by using adjustable feet on my legs, built the layout and when it came time to lay the carpet I raised the legs one at a time and slid the carpet underneath.
My floor is 3/4 floor grade ply a DPM/insulation layer 3/4" then chipboard flooring panels then underlay and carpet.
Shaun