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WS foam incline risers: A cheaper alternative?

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WS foam incline risers: A cheaper alternative?
Posted by Metro Red Line on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 2:43 AM
Has anyone devised a cheaper alternative to WS foam incline risers?
I'm thinking anyone with a precise cutting tool can slice a section of foam diagonally, chop it into segments and come up with an incline.
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 8:05 AM
I'm old school. Wood blocks cut in graduated heights.

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 8:27 AM

I use cookie-cutter with 2-inch pink foam.  I cut a long piece about 3 inches wide (for HO) and then support it on trestles whenever it crosses a rafter.  The foam is stiff and strong enough to span the gap without sagging, and it won't distort with humidity like plywood will.  The top and bottom need a bit of rounding so the transition isn't abrubt.

I did try making a triangular ramp out of foam.  I had a hard time getting a straight cut.  It was very early in both layout-building and foam-cutting, so I don't think I was doing a very good job of it.  Still, the cookie-cutter seems a lot easier after I've tried both methods.

 

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Posted by orsonroy on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 8:52 AM

Extruded polyurethane foam (the pink or blue stuff) is surprisingly flexible, as well as easy to cut. While I don't like to use cookie cutter construction (I prefer single-level track per layout level, cutting into a foam base to make scenery grades), it would be pretty easy to cut the foam into 1" wide strips up to eight feet long. Cut the grades out of the strips (no "precision cutting tools" needed: just use a chalk line and a boxcutter) and glue them to the base and to each other. Three strips per track will give you 3" under each mainline, which is more than enough for the track and roadbed.

And all of this will cost you about 20% of what the Woodland Scenics inclines cost!

Ray Breyer

Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 5:44 PM

orsonroy,

How thick is the stuff you are talking about (i.e. pink or blue stuff)?  Are you talking about that Owens-Corning insulation you can get at Home Depot or some other uber foam?

If I understand you correctly (bear with me because I am slow, hehe), you cut three 8 foot triangles that is 1 inch wide and then glue them together to make a 3 inch wide x 8 foot long 'ramp'?

Just making sure I'm getting this down.  I'd rather not spend all my budget on WS foam products!  :))

Mike/Nightshade

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Posted by rghammill on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 8:24 PM
I'd recommend masonite spline instead. It automatically creates horizontal (curves) and vertical (grades) easements. It's cheap and easy to do.

Check out Joe Fugate's site:

http://siskiyou-railfan.net

to see how he did it. It works great.

Randy
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Posted by selector on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 8:42 PM
Randy, I would agree with you, but it is a TON of work!  The smoothness of spline is unparalleled, to my mind, but it is soooo time consuming to build it.  Slapping down some thinnish plywood, gluing some foam for a surface, and then slicing out a ramp from more foam takes about 1/2 the time of just making the splines, let alone the benchwork.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, November 8, 2006 10:46 PM
Where, specifically, can I find these splines on Joe Fugate's site?  There's a lot there to look through!
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Posted by orsonroy on Thursday, November 9, 2006 9:27 AM

 Nightshade wrote:
How thick is the stuff you are talking about (i.e. pink or blue stuff)?  Are you talking about that Owens-Corning insulation you can get at Home Depot or some other uber foam?

I'm talking about the plain old blue or pink insulation foam, that stuff that's at HD. I've successfully cut and bent 1/2" and 1" thick foam. In fact, all of my roadbed was 1/2" foam hand cut into 1.5" wide strips and laid like cork ($9 for 250 linear feet of the stuff!). I can curve the 1/2" thick foam down to 22" radius curves without it snapping on me. I've used the 1" foam as curved tunnel walls and as retaining wall backing. I forget quite how much I can successfully curve the thicker material, but I do remember that it works best if you're trying to bend longer pieces.

If I understand you correctly (bear with me because I am slow, hehe), you cut three 8 foot triangles that is 1 inch wide and then glue them together to make a 3 inch wide x 8 foot long 'ramp'

Yep. It's deceivingly simple. If you're unsure about bending the thicker material, do what WS has done and kerf the sides: adding a series of thin cuts along the sides will help bend the foam without breaking it (if you've got one, a table saw will make FAST work of this: cut to about 1/2 or 2/3 of the way through the material). It may be a little more work, but cutting your own foam risers will STILL save you a lot of money versus the WS stuff.

Ray Breyer

Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943

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Posted by cccpro on Thursday, November 9, 2006 9:47 AM
I am sure there is always a less expensive way to do things - but - and I am sure I am not alone - time is also a key variable in the equation.  I do have a limited budget (both time & money) and I found the risers from WS easy to use and effective.  I also created inclines & supports with wood blocks....  I have two helix's on my N-Scale layout - one with wood block supports and 3/4" plywood.  The other is with WS foam riser 2" rise/8' - worked great!  A huge time saver also.  If time is not as critical a factor as money the tried and true method works but sometimes a few bucks can save hours.  Have fun.
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 9, 2006 1:46 PM

I agree with cccpro.  In fact, I have three boxes of 4% grade WS inclines left over.  Since my grades were short and I changed my height by an inch last minute, I was able to get 6 separate grades built from 2 boxes of 3% WS inclines.  I never even needed the 4% grades.

I am also using foam insulation on my layout but since my grades were only 2.5 feet long and the radius is 21 5/8", I was hard pressed to bend the foam insulation in order to use it for grading.  But I suppose on a straightaway or broad turn, it would work just fine.  However, as I've mentioned in another thread, if I'm going to build this layout in my lifetime I have to cut corners somewhere.  WS inclines were a great way to accomplish what I wanted quickly and easily.

Here's a photo of one of my grades:

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 9, 2006 5:56 PM

Surfstud,

I saw the other two pics on that other "Beginner" thread.  Where do you get your pink foam?  It looks like it's various thicknesses and in sheets (4'x8')?

Mike/Nightshade

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 10, 2006 12:18 AM
Nightshade, it's foam insulation board from Home Depot. Comes in thicknesses of 1/2", 3/4", 1", and 2".  I found it in 2'x'8 sheets which were easier to work with than 4'x'8.  I love using foam - wish I had it many years ago when I built my first layout.
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Posted by ARTHILL on Friday, November 10, 2006 11:50 AM
I get mine from dumpsters at construction sites. Usually a forman will give you all he has if you tell him what you are doing with it.
If you think you have it right, your standards are too low. my photos http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a235/ARTHILL/ Art
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 10, 2006 3:25 PM
 Surfstud31 wrote:
Nightshade, it's foam insulation board from Home Depot. Comes in thicknesses of 1/2", 3/4", 1", and 2".  I found it in 2'x'8 sheets which were easier to work with than 4'x'8.  I love using foam - wish I had it many years ago when I built my first layout.


I haven't seen the 2'x8' at the local HD or Menards.  I did recently buy a 1.5" 4'x8' sheet at Menards for $14 or so.  The pink foam is cheaper at Menards then HD by about $1 per inch of thinkness. (at least here in the Chicago NW suburbs)
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 10, 2006 11:26 PM

I guess it's to HD for me.  I miss Menards, but none down here.  Maybe HD will be inexpensive anyway, as the cost of living is less than up north....

Does everyone here use plaster cloth on top of their foam?  Or are the hills finished off another way?

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Posted by Gwedd on Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:43 PM
 Nightshade wrote:

I guess it's to HD for me.  I miss Menards, but none down here.  Maybe HD will be inexpensive anyway, as the cost of living is less than up north....

Does everyone here use plaster cloth on top of their foam?  Or are the hills finished off another way?

   Hello,

     I don't have a lick of plaster on my layout. I texture the foam with various tools such as rasps, carving knives, palm sander, hot knife and a woodburning pencil. Then it's sealed with a coat of latex housepaint, then it's off to whatever scenic material is going to be required. In fact, I'm giving serious thought to trying my hand at carving a layout out of two or three layers of foam insulation bonded together. Sort of the way an artist sculpts a statue. Create all the terrain, then start cutting away the areas where the track will be laid, etc. Probably won't be getting started till next spring if I do it, but it's something I'd like to play around with.

     Respects

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Posted by weinschenksk on Monday, November 13, 2006 10:39 PM

I have had good luck by cutting the foam at the incline that I want........i.e.1%, 2%, etc......then I run a length of tape(in my case Gorilla Tape) along the side of the incline....then on the opposite side I cut it at 1" intervals........once you fasten it to the layout it is very strong and substantial.....it works for me.........you have to decide which direction your curve will take before you place the tape.......the tape has to be on the inside of the curve......this procedures allows me to tailor my inclines.......i.e. I can make it anything I want......1.1%, 1.2%, etc....

Sam

 

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Posted by Metro Red Line on Monday, November 13, 2006 11:20 PM
So I found a compromise solution -- I bought a 2% WS incline starter set over the weekend. It includes 8 incline ramps that go up to 1/2".

Instead of buying the expensive riser kits, I bought 2x4' white styrofoam boards from HD (they don't sell pink or blue 'round here, but it'll work). I got a two each of 1 1/2" and 1/2" thicknesses. I will cut them to the outline of the track (this will be a double-track incline so the cut white foam boards will be of equal width as the WS inclines). I will use these in tandem with the risers, and use the surplus for mountains!

I do have blue foam (1" thick) for my layout base (which will rest on plywood).

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