track help needed

[hoscalelarry]

I've been reading all you fine folks have had to say for about a year now.  One third of my layout wood is here and walls are going up.  All rolling stock and everything is from late '70's still in boxes.

(1)  My problem is that I read that there is no longer BRASS RAILS for the track -- did I read this right??  I plan on going DCC once I get started & decide which one of the two final plans I am going to build.

(2)Another question is -- should I convert everything to the KADEE couplers and get metal wheels for cars -- I've got less then 30 right now. 

Time is "on my side" to do this right as I feel it'll take thhis winter to do this 'first phase' of "my empire". By the way -- I'm doing H O scale in a 12 foot by 30  foot room, around the wall, so that is like 74 total feet long table top, leaveing the 5 foor door open. I have 12 gauge wire for power bus and 20 gauge for leeds from track to buss.

Thank you all in advance for answering these questions.

[NeO6874]

1. That's right - everything is Nickel Silver (NS) now - its a better conductor than brass when it gets oxidized - so you won't have to clean it as often (or at all - if you follow the directions a few of the guys have for keeping it clean)

2. Kadee (KD) couplers are (for the most part) the de-facto standard for knuckle couplers.  Getting all metal wheels will keep your track cleaner longer, as there's no gunk buildup on the track  from the plastic wheels.

[mikesmowers]

   #1.    I do not think brass rail is even made any more, it corrodes very fast and you will spend all your time cleaning track.  Use the Nickel Silver, it is not as prone to corrode and what corrosion it does will conducy electricity.
    #2.   I would say that depends on what type of couplers you have on your rolling stock now. I have EZ Mate on most of my stock now and as the break I do replace them with Kadee.  As for the metal wheels, I would say to go ahead and install the metal wheelsets as they will not pick dust on the track as easily and they will roll a lot more freely
   What kind of rolling stock do you now have?
   I'm sure others will have different opinions on this but this what I personally would recomend.    Hope this helps.     Mike

[hoscalelarry]

Thanks for answering so fast Ne06874 -- Guess I did learn something reading all you guys had to say on here  

I'm almost embarsed to say I have a "hodge podge" of roling stock -- some Bachmann, some Life Like and some Model Power -- all 40 to 50 Foot mostly box cars and cattle cars.

[IRONROOSTER]

Many people find that metal wheels have less problems with dirt.  They also add some weight down low for better tracking.  Kadee couplers are pretty standard, but there are clones now that the orginial patents have expired.  Some people have had good results with clones, but many others have not.  A fairly new manufacturer is Sergent http://www.sergentengineering.com/  They aren't compatible with Kadee's, but appear to be more realistic.

I would convert now as it only gets to be more of a chore later.  I add KD's and change plastic wheels along with weighting to NMRA RP 20.1 http://www.nmra.org/standards/rp-20_1.html as I put the cars in service.
Enjoy
Paul

[hoscalelarry]

Thanks Paul -- YES  I forgot -- I have the NMRA standard and have the scale & weights to weigh all cars before they go into service -- sorry I've been "collecting" everything I thought I needed [except for track] for a year now. I figure getting a little each month -- the 'CFO' won't get upset at cost. 

[nbrodar]

When you convert, forget about buying the little packs of wheels and couplers.   Kadee sells bulk packs of #5s. Although, the bulk packs don't come with any coupler boxes.  Ask you LHS about bulk packs of wheels.  Mine sells 100 packs of Intermountain wheels for $65.

Nick

[MisterBeasley]

I also started with old equipment - cars with horn-hooks and plastic wheels.  I made a pact with myself to keep the horn-hooks off the layout, and so far I've converted about half my rolling stock.  With stuff that old, pretty much every car requires an attack with a cutting wheel to remove the old coupler pocket, and then a drill-and-tap to make way for a screw to hold the new one on.  So, it's a bit of a chore.  If your stuff is new enough, you may be able to just drop in Kadees with minimal effort.  Either way, it's the right thing to do.

I'm still mostly running with plastic wheels.  I've converted some by just replacing the wheels, and others wouldn't behave until I replaced the entire truck set.

If your locomotives are still running well on DC, you can probably just add decoders to make them DCC engines.  You may have to electrically "isolate" the motors from the frames, depending on the design of the loco.  I only had one out of about 10 engines that made the transition, but mine were all from the early 1960's, so you've got a better chance.  New engines sure are nice, though.

[hoscalelarry]

A BIG thank you to you guys that have answered and showen me I'm 'thinking right'.  And thanks 'Mister Beasley' for reminding me I'll need to find the drills & taps and get then to the spot where I can use em. 

After I get started I'm also planning on setting up a web site to show all of you how I'm doing and be asking for help in some areas.  YOU GUYS ARE GREAT AND ONCE AGAIN "THANKS"

[jeffrey-wimberly]

I'm using some old rolling stock myself, some of it going back to the mid 60's. As Mr B stated, it takes some work to convert them, as many of the ones I have had truck mounted couplers originally, but the end result is nice and the cars look and track much better.

[Bill54]

Larry,

One thing to consider that hasn't been mentioned.  If you are replacing couplers on loco's or rolling stock that has metal frames, you may want to use the Bachmann EZ Mate couplers because they are plastic.  The metal Kadee's may give you some electrical problems when using DCC and doing consists. 

There are two different qualities of EZ Mate couplers available that are comparable to the Kadee #5's.  The cheap version uses a plastic lever to close the coupler.  The better version is just like the Kadee's that uses a metal spring to close the coupler.

I bought a 25 pair package of EZ Mate couplers, Bachmann #78125, for $17. online. 

I use Kadee's on most of my rolling stock, but when the coupler mounts to metal I like the plastic ones.

You can also find Kadee's in a 20 pair pack online for around $20.  The draft gear boxes are also available in 10 pairs on a tree for about $2 - $3.

Bill

[Anonymous]

Personally, I would go with the Kadees or if another brand go with one that has a coil spring to close the knuckle.  The plastic lever type if parked with the knuckles bound together will take the "spring" out og the plastic lever and the knuckle will no longer close.  I went with metal wheels for there weight and the fact, as mentioned earlier, that they help keep the rails clean.  I've  found the Intermountain brand of wheelsets fits most snap-in trucks good enough that the wheels will stay in the truck.  I use a small drill bit to remove some material from the journal in the axle fits too tight.  They make a too called a truck tuner to do this, but the drill bit works OK for me.  One manufacturer makes wheelsets with different length axles that will fit trucks with to wide a span between journals. Tweet

[tstage]

Thanks for answering so fast Ne06874 -- Guess I did learn something reading all you guys had to say on here  

I'm almost embarsed to say I have a "hodge podge" of roling stock -- some Bachmann, some Life Like and some Model Power -- all 40 to 50 Foot mostly box cars and cattle cars.

Larry,

If I read correctly into your statement above, your rolling stock is several years old.  Bachmann, LL, and Model Power - although not the greatest - are still decent cars to run on a layout.  However, even if you install all new nickel-silver track, you will eventually find yourself cleaning your track quite often because the plastic wheels on your old rolling stock will degrade and dirty your track.

Larry, even if money is not always at a premium in your budget, I'd like to encourage you - at the very least - to start consider replacing your plastic wheel sets on your rolling stock for metal ones - e.g. Proto 2000 or Intermountain 33".  That will both drastically reduce the amount of cleaning you will need to perform on a regular basis and increase the performance of your rolling stock.

Another idea for you to think about.  If you want to update your rolling stock for some better quality stuff - without breaking the bank - look into some of the Accurail boxcars and hoppers kits.  They are fairly inexpensive, nicely detailed and easy to put together.  The underside brake detailing is a bit spartan but the rest of very nice.  IMHO, Accurail's wood and wood end boxcars are exceptional. 

Accurail kits normally run $8-10 a kit but you can find them at train shows at discount.  Accurail is starting to go more RTR so the kits are sadly beginning to become more scarce.  Although not as good as Kadees, the Accurail cars do come with Accumate knuckle couplers.  As others have already stated, the Kadees are factory standard on quality.

Larry, I don't know where you are at in my neck of the woods but there are a few good train stores around the Cleveland area.  Here's a list of the ones I frequent the most:

• Depot Train & Hobby (Cleveland - W. 130th)
• Wings Hobbies (Lakewood - Detroit Avenue)
• Stewart Hobbies (Willoughby - Euclid Avenue)

The largest selection and widest variety of rolling stock (in both kit and RTR form) is Wings, with Stewart Hobbies a close second.  As far as knowledge base is concerned, Jim at Depot T & H is the guy to talk to.  Depot T & H has a decent selection of stuff - just not as abundant.  Occasionally I visit the Hobbytown USA store out in Mentor for supplies because they are open till 9 PM.  Hobbytown caters more to the RC folks.

Anyway, Larry, I probably gave you way more info than you really wanted.  I thought I'd put in more than my two bits because you are a local guy.  Hope that helps...

Tom

P.S.  Larrry, I notice to that you are a Vietnam vet.  First off, THANK YOU for serving our country.  [You can insert a warm and hearty handshake at this junction.]

Secondly, do you ever visit the Brecksville or Wade Park VA facilities?  I work for the VA but I work at an offsite facility.  Every once in a while I have to go to Wade Park to do or pick up something.  If you are there, it would be fun to meet up sometime.  FYI: Jim at Depot Train and Hobby is a Vietnam Vet, as well.

[hoscalelarry]

Tom,

   Thanks for your info -- as you well know, there is NEVER "to much" info you can give in this form.  I like your web site for more info on the 'how to' do things.  With those details -- even I can make lights, etc. without to much trouble. I sent you an e-mail and hope we can find time to get to meet one day as you say 'would be fun'.

   Tom -- THANKS for letting me know about Jim @ Depot Train -- I ALWAYS shop first at Vietnam Vet owned stores -- my way of supporting fellow Vets -- and I hope all who read this do the same.

Larry

[cudaken]

 Hi Larry. My board is proof that the older cheap rolling stock can be made to pull well. If I had it to do over I would stick with the TYCO stuff, easyer to convert over to chassis mounted coupler box's. Bachman's you need to cut off there box, sand and level before you install a Kadee box. (I have not had good luck with the Kadee's that are made to fit the Bachmans)

 You can also use the washer by Kadee make's to raise the car to get the coupler height right on the Tyco's. Just clip the washer and slip on the neck of truck. Bachmans are to thick to let the washer slip on so you have to use off set couplers. All so a good idea to have some thin plactics stock you can mount it first on the chassis when you need to lower the coupler box.

 Kadee boxe's I am using have ear's on either side of the box, if you happen to use that style you will need to cut the ears off after thay are mounted. Wheels will hit the ears in a turn and cause a derail. This drove me nuts till I figured it out.

 With you only having 30 cars at this point I would all so use the Proto Wheels. I on the other hand have around 115 cars now, I replaces 3 sets a week because I don't have the funds to do it all at one time. If budget is tight like mine Walthers axles work well and lot cheap than the Protos. I get 3 sets of them for $2.95 vs $6.95 for three sets of the Protos. LHS now sells them to me in bulk 20 sets for $10.00

 I know most people will snear at this statment but don't sell the horn hook tuck mounted couplers short. My A line at this point are still all Horn Hooks, alxes have been up graged and bosters tuned so they roll freely. I pull a 40 car dragg with all tucked mounted couplers, that seems to be there limt but that is a good sizes train. My B line draggs a 60 car train, they are all Kadee converted.

                    Cuda Ken

 

  

[RRTrainman]

Your correct.  Nickel-silver is the norm' now.  I a DC cab unit for power. I haven't swicth yet but for DCC I would use N-S track for it.  Its been recommended to me when I start my swicth to DCC.

[fsm1000]

Brass rail, oh my. SOOOOO glad we don't use that anymore. Boy do I remember that LOL
We must have been a tough [or desperate LOL] bunch back then.
As for couplers I use kadees no. 5 myself. They are reliable, common and just plain work.

If you want to start a website try googlepages, it is free and does not have spyware like 'freewebs' does [they use 'doubleclick' and place it on EVERY computer that visits a 'freeweb' site].
Of course you could always pay for one as well and get a lot more options.
Anyhow, glad to see you coming back to model RRing.
Pop on over to my site and the ton of other free sites [I have a lot of links to some] available out there.
They will certainly get you up to speed on whats going on now.

Heck I even remember the old locos that used rubber bands before they came out with gears and universal joints. Now THAT'S old stuff LOL

[tstage]

   Tom -- THANKS for letting me know about Jim @ Depot Train -- I ALWAYS shop first at Vietnam Vet owned stores -- my way of supporting fellow Vets -- and I hope all who read this do the same.

Larry

Larry,

Yes, I got your e-mail.  We'll try and work out a time to get together sometime.  I know exactly where you are - given the explanations you gave.

FYI: Jim is usually @ Depot Train on Mondays, Wednesday, and Saturdays.  Tell him it my fault for sending you there.   Also, Jim doesn't own the store.  He just works there.  But he's still a warehouse of knowledge about steam and model railroading in general.

Tom

[Anonymous]

Tweet!

What LHS do you visit? 

Mike/Nightshade