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Comment: NY, Kittatinny & Western layout in Oct06 MR

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Comment: NY, Kittatinny & Western layout in Oct06 MR
Posted by leighant on Friday, September 1, 2006 10:16 AM

I just got my October MR and there is a layout visit article to a layout that deserves more analysis and comment that the magazine article space allows.  Bernie Halloran’s NEW YORK, KITTATINNY AND WESTERN layout in October MR is one with many interesting features that were not emphasized or explained. I feel the most appropriate place for online discussions of layouts that appear in Model Railroader magazine is here in the trains.com/ Model Railroader/ “layouts” forum. 

MULTIPLE USE OF HELIX SPACE

Helixes (“helices”?) take up a lot of room while allowing more use of vertical space.  The NYK&W uses a few inches more horizontal room (space on the “plan view” footprint) than the minimum helix but it makes FOUR uses of that space….

 

1. The helix itself, which appears to raise the mainline approximately 3 to 4 inches elevation between Andover on the lower line and Hainesburg on higher level trackage. 

 (I wanted to quote a specific elevation change but there is some ambiguity about the layout plan as drawn in the magazine.  The plan view shows 54 ¾” elevation at the middle of Andover and 58 ¾” at the passing siding just east of Hainesburg.  However, the cross-section A-A shows the track in the tunnel west of the helix and east of Hainesburg siding as 54 ¾”, the same elevation as Andover, implying running through a helix with no change in elevation, and then a 4 inch rise in elevation in the 8 feet of running between section AA and the Hainesburg siding, a steep 4 percent grade!  But the “layout at a glance” specifications indicate a maximum grade of 1.7% so there is some figure that cannot be trusted.  The illustration of the Minisink Viaduct on p.82 appears consistent with a grade separation of about 8 inches between track level at that point.)

(Nitpick of MR coverage, not layout:)

 

2. The space below the Andover-Hainesburg helix is used for a turnback curve that allows lower level east end staging directly below upper level west end staging.

 

3. A John Armstrong-style inverted reverse loop inside the lower end allows quick and easy turnaround of trains terminating in east end/ lower end staging.

 

4. Finally, the space ABOVE the helix is used for the New Jersey zinc mine scene.

 

I would also like to discuss 2 other interesting features of the NY, Kitty & Western: 

asymmetrical balance on a point-to-point layout, and diversity of magnitude of features in a “town”/ switching location/ siding.

But I gotta go to work.  And I want to play with my trains when I get off.  So….”Later.”

 

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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 2, 2006 12:47 AM

OK, I will look forward to it.

You guys in the States get your mags a bit sooner then we do out here.Sad [:(]

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Posted by leighant on Saturday, September 2, 2006 9:40 AM

Continuing analysis/discussion of  New York, Kittatinny & Western layout

POINT-TO-POINT WITH ASYMMETRICAL BALANCE

 

As I read the plan, the NY, “Kitty” & Western appears to be a true point-to-point layout, with no way to start on a train and let it run unattended.  A train will eventually arrive at the end of the track and have to be stopped or ******!  I think of this as usually the most realistic way to build and operate a layout.  My own personal preference is to design a layout for realistic point-to-point operation as the first priority, and then as a lesser priority, provide for some inconspicuous way to allow continuous loop running for testing, engine break-in, exhibits, lazy days etc. IF that can be done without making the layout look like a pointless “loop the loop”.

 

The “Kitty” not only has an actual point-to-point schematic squeezed into a medium-large but not unlimited space.  It also has a strong sense of direction to underscore the message that trains are going somewhere particular.  Although the track runs around the walls of a room, trains continue in the same direction vis-à-vis the viewpoint of an operator in the central aisle until they disappear off the scene into hidden staging.  The turnback curve at the east/ lower end of the mainline turns the direction back around so that east end staging can be directly under west end staging, but that turnback is hidden so it does not affect the perception of visual direction.  Furthermore, the layout direction as seen by an operator corresponds with “MAP” direction.  An eastbound train runs to the right, just as right is east on most maps, and west is to the left.  One more furthermore is the general change in elevation from the east to west end of the layout.  The east end is lower.  Eastbound trains are moving toward the Atlantic seaboard-- the Jersey coast and to connections to New England.  Westbound trains are moving toward the interior/ hinterlands/ mountains. 

 

Both east and west ends of the layout have hidden staging yards, of similar size, located one above the other.  The staging yards themselves appear almost identical on the plan, but there are some other interesting differences that save the opposite ends from being mirror images of each other.  East end/ lower end staging has a reverted loop that allows quick turnaround of trains.  An eastbound train that terminates to the east during an operating session can be turned as appear a few minutes or simulated hours later as another train- westbound- in the same operating session.  For a freight train, it would usually represent a different train.  For a commuter train, it might represent the same set of equipment that went to a central terminal station, unloaded inbound passengers, reloaded outbound passenger and began an outbound trip.  Technically (by the rulebook) it would have a different train number so it would be a different “train” though it would be the same set of cars and locomotive.

On the west end of the railroad, there is no quick and easy way to turn trains.  They would have to be either shuffled by hand on hidden staging tracks to put loco on the front, caboose on the back, etc.  -OR- backed out unrealistically onto the visible part of the layout and switched using a passing siding or runaround track to resort the equipment, then backed again into hidden storage.  This would not usually be very realistic during an operating session.  HOWEVER, there is less need to reshuffle equipment on the west end of the layout because there are so many staging tracks-- five at the extreme west end Upper Level staging, more tracks (five?) in CNJ/laundry room staging west of Andover, and  five tracks in the furnace room west of Hainesburg.  That means 15 trains can be made up on the west end of the railroad before an operating session ready to run east.  It may not be necessary to turn and send back trains that terminate westbound, to have plenty of trains to run.

Furthermore, it would be realistic to turn commuter passenger trains onstage at the last outbound town on their run.  A train with A-A diesels on the head end could be turned by cutting off the diesels from the west end of the train and running around to recouple them on the east end of the train for the inbound trip.

 

So the asymmetrical balance of directional operation.  Staging for plenty on trains on the west end (15) without any quick way to turn them, and staging for only 5 trains on the east end but quick and easy turning.

 

Still to discuss, another time:

WHAT IS A “TOWN” ON A LAYOUT?  VARIETY OF “SCALE”

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Posted by fiatfan on Saturday, September 2, 2006 12:07 PM
Very interesting analysis, Ken.  It gave me some ideas to think about and also made me realize I have an industry in the wrong town.

I have a grain elevator in a town surrounded by hills and mountains.  Where is the grain coming from, a mine?  Probably not.  So I will be relocating the elevator to another town that makes more sense.

Anyone else stop to consider what industries should be in which town?

Tom

Life is simple - eat, drink, play with trains!

Go Big Red!

PA&ERR "If you think you are doing something stupid, you're probably right!"

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Posted by leighant on Sunday, September 3, 2006 10:15 PM

The third thing I find interesting and instructive on the "Kitty" layout (what Tony Koester calls "learning points") is the variety of features in the four different "towns".

What is a town? (on a model railroad, that is...)

A town to the geography or census bureau is an inhabited place with homes, businesses etc.  A town on a model railroad is more like a "station" on a railroad as defined by the rulebook, a named operating point.

We modelers often give a town name to

  • places with a passenger or freight depot--
  • yards
  • passing sidings
  • industry locations large and small

What is interesting here is the different mix of features and scale of-- oops, "scale" is the word we use to define modeling proportions, such as HO, O, N, etc.  I guess what I mean is the MAGNITUDE of different industries.  Some layouts might have one of each kind of industry, each with room for one car.  On the "Kitty", industries come in different sizes (as far as their traffic capacity).

Sparta Junction has NO industries unless you count railroad supplies, fuel etc as an "industry".

Andover has 5 different industries, three with car capacities of about 3 cars, one with room for 6 and one with room for 8. 

Hainesburg has 3 businesses with room for 1 or 2 cars each, and one with a spur for 3 or 4.

Ogdensburg's NJ Zinc can originate an entire train at one time.

This implys three different kinds of switching going on in the three "towns".

All four have some provision for passing siding, but those provisions are somewhat unequal with a long long siding at Ogdensburg.  But Ogdensburg does NOT have a passenger station as do the 3 other locations.

Notice that there are TWO different Borden's facilities in different towns.  I wonder if one ships to the other, or if a car is half-loaded at one point and filled the rest of the way at the other.  At the very least, it could mean that a distinctive private owner car does not always go to the same location every time it is switched.

I think of variety as the spice of locations-- and operation.

Interesting layout.

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Posted by Bernie NYK&W on Sunday, October 21, 2007 8:23 PM

leighant ,

One year later, you get a reply. Bad form on my part.  Thanks for noticing what I worked into the layout.  Yes, the art department did a wonderful job on the trackplan, but did make a few tiny mistakes.  Old John Armstrong knew how to work things out.  The reverted loop worked fine, even backing full-lenth passenger cars with diaphrams. There were two side-bars with the article that MR didn't use.  One of place names, the other on using the "helper district" to fiddle engines and cabosses on the upper, or west end.  You caught on.  More later.

Bernie

Bernie Halloran NYK&W
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Posted by Bernie NYK&W on Sunday, October 21, 2007 8:33 PM

leighant,

You really picked up the operating scheme.  Yes.  The article was at MR for three years, during which time it was scheduled for one of the annual pubs with the sidebars and more diagrams for switching at the west end.  Above the entry duck-under is a "helper district" when a pair of A-A diesels sat and a few electromag uncouplers to allow the west-bound engines to cut off, cut off the caboose, and the "waiting" A-A pushers would take on the end of the train, becoming the new "east-bound" which would then tag on its caboose and back into the upper staging, waiting to be dispatched back east, another day.  It worked okay, because of all the other action available from other staging.

Bernie

Bernie Halloran NYK&W
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Posted by Bernie NYK&W on Sunday, October 21, 2007 8:42 PM

leighant,

 Yup. You got more of it just right. The "long long siding at Ogdensburg" was part of the helper district trick, so another train could head east while the west-bound train was being 'reversed.' There is a station at the far, far end of Ogdensburg.  The Borden's plants both ship milk products east, to metropolitan New Jersey, the densly populated part. Towns are diffent, and in a small space, variety is important.  Thanks for noticing.

Bernie

Bernie Halloran NYK&W

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