Boy am I glad I found this thread. I need about 55+ #5 turnouts to complete my layout. At ~ $15 each commerically purchased that would amount to over $800. If I read correctly on the fast tracks web, the jig will run about $120. I don't see how I, or my CFO, could argue with that math.
And, for the ones I have so far laid on my staging yard, I can say I do not particularly like the clickety-clack !
Thanks
Tom
fwright wrote: I'm not trying to talk you out of Fast Tracks jigs, but just pointing out that you can build custom turnouts nearly as easily. I learned how on my own and from an old Jack Work article in Apr 1963 MR, before Fast Tracks existed. Now the jigs are too expensive for what I would gain. yours in handlaid track Fred W
I'm not trying to talk you out of Fast Tracks jigs, but just pointing out that you can build custom turnouts nearly as easily. I learned how on my own and from an old Jack Work article in Apr 1963 MR, before Fast Tracks existed. Now the jigs are too expensive for what I would gain.
yours in handlaid track
Fred W
Fred,
Have you tried one of the Fasttracks jigs? (I'm not being snide or anything - just curious, because my experience is so different)
I handbuilt many turnouts without a Fasttracks jig in the past (from a 1950s article in MR - I don't remember the author). Maybe others' experiences are different, but for me it is much easier now using the jig and point/frog tool. Granted, the Fasttracks tools are pricey, but the ease and accuracy with which a turnout goes together makes the cost more than worth it.
Probably the part of construction that makes the most difference is the fabrication of points and frogs. I used to file these parts by holding the rail in my fingers. I certainly don't miss the tender skin on my thumbs that I used to get while filing down frog and point rails.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage wrote:I REALLY appreciate this thread. I do have a question for either Harold, Crandell, and Mark: Can you alter the overall length of the FS turnouts fairly easily? If so, how much? For instance, say I want to fit a #6 turnout into a #4 or #5 turnout spot. Is there enough "overlap" on the ends that I could trim the end to make that kind of adjustment?Thanks for the responses...Tom
You are quite capable of laying your own turnout without a Fast Tracks jig (especially after you have built a couple with the jig) if you need a different frog or a curved turnout to fit a specific situation. Steve Hatch at Railway Engineering demonstrated the following technique to me for creating a template for a custom turnout:
1) lay some flex track to fit one leg of the desired turnout. Put a piece a paper on top and "color" over the rails with a pencil to create a tracing of the rail locations.
2) relay the flex track for the other desired turnout leg. Using the same reference point at the point end of the turnout, get a tracing of the rail location for the other leg on the same piece of paper.
3) you now have a paper template with a custom frog, closure rail, and points. Build the components to fit the template with your choice of methods, either at the bench or on site.
Tom, they can be cut right down to just after the points, and just after the frogs, if you wish. I just measured my #8, and I would not feel comfortable paring it down below a full 10".
I can't say for sure, but I would guess one of their # 6 turnouts could be brought down nearer to 9". May I suggest that you log onto their site (handlaidtrack.com), and you can download and print a true-sized template for all of their turnouts.
-Crandell
Tom-
I thought that was what you meant. If you look at the templates (for example http://www.handlaidtrack.com/cd/templates/n-6-turnout-tie-template.pdf ) you can see where the PC board ties are. You could cut outside of those. You might be able to even put them a bit farther back and make the cut, as long as everything is supported.
I have made a few now, and I have to say they really look good. I'm still improving, I know that my best have yet to be built. In N scale, at least, you need to make sure the guard rails don't get too close to the stock rails, and as someone else said you must absolutely do a good job of removing the base of the stock rails where the points will nest. I have actually found the most annoying part adding all of the non-PC ties. They make the nifty quick-sticks, but I am cheap..... If I wanted to lay the ties in place and then lay the turnout on them it relly woulnd't be a problem, since it would not matter if they actually bonded, but I am trying to build on the bench and then move the whole thing into place.
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
Ed Stimpson had an article in the May 1978 Model Railroader, " Maintenance-Free Turnouts", that developed turnouts on the workbench using PC board ties. It was the same concept as Fast Track jig but they were built using a paper diagram. I have built turnouts at the bench using his article and they work really well.
I will use Ed's method for special turnouts but the Fast Tracks jig makes regular turnouts so much faster. I have built curved crossovers using paper diagrams as Ed described. Building turnouts in place on the layout gets really old when the turnout isn't quite right and is located in that arm's length place.
The PC board turnout built on the bench is the only way to build turnouts for ease and reliability
Just a thought
Harold
Brunton wrote: I completed my first turnout, except for painting, last night. The only place my test trucks click is on the frog isolation gaps. Even my first effort is smoother than the Walthers / Shinohara turnouts I've been using! Tonight I'll paint the turnout, and in a few weeks it'll go onto the layout. By the time I'm done I'll have put about 4 hours into the turnout. The next one will go faster, I'm sure.
I completed my first turnout, except for painting, last night. The only place my test trucks click is on the frog isolation gaps. Even my first effort is smoother than the Walthers / Shinohara turnouts I've been using!
Tonight I'll paint the turnout, and in a few weeks it'll go onto the layout.
By the time I'm done I'll have put about 4 hours into the turnout. The next one will go faster, I'm sure.
Mark, have you a jeweller's saw? I paid for one (gulp!...import duties and all made it almost not worthwhile), but it does a superb job of the frog isolation cuts. In fact, you have to squint to see them...believe it or not. I do not like the effect that a cut-off disk, diamond or not, has on my track. In comparison, the latter leaves a canyon.
I agree. The geometry is different, unless you make allowances for between-track distances so that the newer angle matches. So, yes, I have cropped the extremeties of my #8's, but you must ensure that you don't force a tighter curve than you had intented by placing diverging and through tracks too close together.
You can cut some length off of the ends, but in my mind that's really not part of the turnout anyway. But I don't see how you are ever going to fit a #6 into the space of a #4, since the distance from the points to the frog, and the diverging angle are fixed there just ins't anything you can do about it. That's what makes a #6 a #6, after all (of course you knew that). You can look at the tie templates for the Fast Tracks turnouts on their website, anything after the last PC board tie could be cut off, so from that you can see what is possible.
rrinker wrote: Soldering, I can do. Anything from delicate electronics to big #12 bus wires. I just need to spring for a GOOD iron like the Weller. And with some background in machining, I know how to use jigs and fixtures. I don't know if you were there at the same time I was - I was the one that asked how long the point and frog jig would hold up. Only thing I'm not so sure about it their use of acid flux. Even if you clean it off, there's still residue and I'd be afraid it would eventually eat the copper cladding on the pc ties. I don't knwo what they were using at the trains how, but in the video that's on the CD they handed out, he specifically mentions that it is indeed acid flux. Maybe I'm just paranoid, after all the "never EVER use acid flux on electronics!" mantras over the years. Hmm, works ok on copper pipe, guess it wouldn't eat copper cladding or nickel silver either. --Randy
Randy, the acid in the flux will only react until it is taken up. Acid gets used in any oxydative reaction, so it is limited. Personally, I used just enough on a very small artist's paint brush to see a smudge on the PCB tie. After assembly, I washed each turnout in warm sudsy water using a vegetable brush to ensure all surfaces were scoured. To date, each turnout looks fine. And, if you-know-what happens, as is its wont, remove the turnout, or desolder the offending tie and slip it out, to be replaced.
Randy, if nothing else counts in turnouts, the frogs do, and these will have you giggling when you see how well yours work. They are that nice.
Acid flux works because the turnout can be washed completely free of the acid flux unlike an electrical device which cannot be immersed in water. If you are really paranoid use a baking soda bath. Mine have been setting for a month and are still bright and shiny.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
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Randy,
I do have prior experience laying my own track and building turnouts - way back in college (30 years ago). I built the turnouts following an article from an even older Model Railroader.
The key thing with the Fasttracks jig is good soldering. The jig holds all the tracks in the correct orientation. You need to make sure it will stay that way when you remove the turnout. I even went so far as to buy one of the same Weller soldering irons they use (from a different vendor - it was a little cheaper).
This is one of my best modeling investments in years.
It is actually quicker than tuning commercial turnouts. I bought the jig and built my second turnout in under 45 minutes. The turnouts are better than commercial prefab offerings.
I manufactured six #8 turnouts of theirs, and built a curved #9(ish) in place using the #8 frog jigs and tweaking it a bit to work. I have also partially built a #6 double-slip using their jigs.
As Marks says, they are very slick. You must pay attention to the video, and take your time to do all he says you should do. For example, grinding away the inside foot of the stock rails where the points lie is critical, and you must do it completely and thoroughly if you want the point rails to work well.
The break-even point, for most of us, will be at the 6-8 turnout point, but more-so when you consider that you will never have to purchase another commercial turnout, and that you will build among the best turnouts you can get whenever the mood/need strikes you.
I bought a jig at the National Train Show and sat down Sunday night to build my first turnout with it. It was pretty straight-forward. Took about 2 1/2 hours. The next one will take less time, I'm sure. Even on my first turnout, the trucks roll through the frog much smoother than with a commercial turout.
I have yet to attach the tie strip and paint the turnout, but I anticipate no problem.
Seems to have been a good investment.