4 x 8 track plan

[Anonymous]

Hello,

I know that most of you aren't a fan of the sacred sheet, but it is all I have to work with. I am modeling in HO and I would like to find a nice track plan. I have tried my hand at it and have found that I'm not that good. You can find it here: http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g89/Jarolimek_Railways/Finished1.jpg

I would like 1 loop allowing countinuous running and a few spurs. I'd like the are to be mostly industrial, or the ability to have a backdrop in the center with two scenes...one rural and one urban. Any ideas or pictures are great.

Thanks,
Spit

[tstage]

Spit,

There's nothing wrong with a 4 x 8. Yea, it has it's disadvantages but there are some pluses to it's design: standardized size, availability, sturdiness. My first (and present) is a 4 x 8. I'm using it as a learning layout and would like to eventually go with an around-the-wall layout.

Spit, I like the irregular "loop" on your layout. Makes it more interesting to look at. A couple of things I see right off the bat. Do you know how tight those flex-track curves are on either end? From what I can surmise, they look <18" radius. Might be OK if you are running small switchers and 40' rolling stock. At least 18" radius would be ideal.

The other has to do with your tunnel. Unless you have good access, turnouts inside tunnels are usually to be avoided. Also, make sure you leave enough center-to-center (CTC) distance between your tracks. In general, 2" minimum on straight, 2-1/2" on curves.

Spit, keep plugging away at it. [:)][tup] It's taken me a while to learn what works and what doesn't work. Study other's layouts and glean and apply what you can to your own.

Tom

[SpaceMouse]

Here's my favorite 4 x8 (other than my own):



And here is a discussion by Byron Henderson on how to operate it.

http://home.earthlink.net/~mrsvc/id39.html

The plan is by John Armstrong and is quite sophisticated. You can go a long way without outgrowing it. And it has a mountain and tunnel. If you want someone to design a layout for you you can't get better than this one from the master.

[SpaceMouse]

Off topic: Tom that station of yours looks really great. You did a good job on it. I'm just trying to figure out what part of the country has pink dirt.

Head down to your hardware store and see if you can pick up a really cheap bent can brown latex house paint. You don't need much. Believe me, you'll feel a lot better with the color just a little more natural.

[Texas Zepher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse
Off topic: ... I'm just trying to figure out what part of the country has pink dirt.

That would be parts of Texas, Oklahoma, and the parts of Colorado that have "Fountian" formation outcrops! They call them red rocks and red dirt but after it sits there and bleaches in the sun it is pink or pale orange.....[;)]

[Anonymous]

Tom -

QUOTE: Originally posted by tstage


Spit, I like the irregular "loop" on your layout. Makes it more interesting to look at. A couple of things I see right off the bat. Do you know how tight those flex-track curves are on either end? From what I can surmise, they look <18" radius. Might be OK if you are running small switchers and 40' rolling stock. At least 18" radius would be ideal.

The outside curves are 18" and the passing siding on the left is a little bit more(In decimals).

QUOTE:
The other has to do with your tunnel. Unless you have good access, turnouts inside tunnels are usually to be avoided. Also, make sure you leave enough center-to-center (CTC) distance between your tracks. In general, 2" minimum on straight, 2-1/2" on curves.

I will have large access panels at the minimum. I am trying to figure out a way to make the part over the turnouts removable.

Spacemouse - I like that, but I want something my own. Something I can say "Thats mine". I know I was asking for plans, but I really just wanted ideas as of how to add to mine. BTW, would you mind me seeing you track plan and how you did the double decker? I would copy it, as I said!

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Off topic: Tom that station of yours looks really great. You did a good job on it. I'm just trying to figure out what part of the country has pink dirt.

Head down to your hardware store and see if you can pick up a really cheap bent can brown latex house paint. You don't need much. Believe me, you'll feel a lot better with the color just a little more natural.

I know! I'm also trying to figure out where you can find dirt with words on it!!!! LOL! No offence, Tom...we're just busting your chops! [:D]

Thanks,
Spit

[pcarrell]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse
Off topic: ... I'm just trying to figure out what part of the country has pink dirt.

That would be parts of Texas, Oklahoma, and the parts of Colorado that have "Fountian" formation outcrops! They call them red rocks and red dirt but after it sits there and bleaches in the sun it is pink or pale orange.....[;)]

So is that black writing on it "natural" too? [;)]

[SpaceMouse]

Is this clear enough? See that turnout under the second level on the right. While working on the layout or during a climate change or something it started derailing an engine about once every ten laps. It worked perfectly before I covered it. It is hard to work on and impossible to see why it is derailing. Again--you've been warned. As for me--never again.

[Anonymous]

Okay. Thank you. I have to ask...I'm going to guess that there are nothing less than 18" radius curves, right? And are those snap switches or #4s?

[West Coast S]

Based upon your desires, here's what i'd do; A divider down the center with two destinctive districts, industrial on one side, rural on the other, you could elect to desguise the transitions with tunnels, personally, I consider tunnels on a 4x8 extremely unrealistic, or you could desguise the divider edges with a tall structure or scenery effects, such as outcroppings. Regardless of ultimate decisions, I would avoid complex inacessible trackwork...Leave ample room for structures and scenery to dominate as they do in the real world. My trackplan would look like this: A simple loop with passing siding for run around moves with several industrial branching off in various directions to provide switching variety. The rural section would have no industries or sidings, just uninturupted scenery..Well, i'm a radical when comes to a clean design, perhaps some day I won't be alone in my ideas.



Dave

[Anonymous]

Thanks West Coast 5. Is it someting along the lines of this?:



(Click to enlarge)

The only thing is...there is no area that isn't ruined by some sort of manly presence. I am going to try to add a coal mine or something along those lines and have then transport the coal or even lumber to a processing plant.

Thanks,
Spit

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpitFireV12RR

Okay. Thank you. I have to ask...I'm going to guess that there are nothing less than 18" radius curves, right? And are those snap switches or #4s?

It's EZ track--18" turns and #4's.

I run only small steam so no problemo.

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpitFireV12RR

Okay. Thank you. I have to ask...I'm going to guess that there are nothing less than 18" radius curves, right? And are those snap switches or #4s?

Spit,

Yes, there is 15" radius curves. It would probably work on short locomotives (e.g. small switchers and shays) and rolling stock but it won't look pretty doing it.

Tom

[Anonymous]

No, no, I was asking and guessing that spacemouse had 18" curves on his layout.

Thanks,
Spit

P.S. Do you like my first layout or my second one better?

[tstage]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

Off topic: Tom that station of yours looks really great. You did a good job on it. I'm just trying to figure out what part of the country has pink dirt.

Head down to your hardware store and see if you can pick up a really cheap bent can brown latex house paint. You don't need much. Believe me, you'll feel a lot better with the color just a little more natural.

"Ali" (Chip) & "Foreman" (Philip),

Man! Bustin' my chops is right! [swg] So you guys don't like my pink pavement?!? [:0]

Seriously, I've actually been kicking around the idea of painting the base for a while but had put it off till I ballasted. Chances are - since this is a learning layout - I probably won't ballast it anyhow. The real issues are:

1. Once I pull up the rail spikes, remove the track, paint the foam base, and put down the track and rail spikes back in again, the spikes may not hold.

2. Now that I have lights wired into my layout, pulling up and shifting track slightly so that it will spike into the foam base better is not a small undertaking. Some of the present lighting is centered between tracks are any shift in placement will be noticeable.

However, I'll take your jibing and reconsider. You're right, Chip, a nice latex "earth color" would improve the looks of things.

Okay, back to your corners, gentlemen...

Tom

[SpaceMouse]

You still have no runaround other than your passing siding--which will work until you put up a scenic divide. If you still don't know what I'm talking about, here's a link to a diagram.

http://www.chipengelmann.com/Trains/beginner/runaround.html

[jeffers_mz]

For whatever reason, the pavement on parts of I-24 between Lymon and Colorado Springs is pink on one side, green on the other side.

I didn't ask why.

[Anonymous]

Okay Space mouse...I get it now. Thanks a bunch! I'm really thinking of going to the pennslyavania and potomatic, or something from 101 track plans. I might even go to 47 Top-notch track plans too...I think I'll save cutsom trackplanning to a custom train room. Not a 4 x 8....

Thanks,
Spit

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpitFireV12RR

Okay Space mouse...I get it now. Thanks a bunch! I'm really thinking of going to the pennslyavania and potomatic, or something from 101 track plans. I might even go to 47 Top-notch track plans too...I think I'll save cutsom trackplanning to a custom train room. Not a 4 x 8....

Thanks,
Spit

You don't need to give up, but there is a lot to learn.

I've been trying to help newbees the way I was helped when I was starting out. You would not believe how much patience, and how much frustration, I put several members here through because I could not understand what a yard lead was. There's a site that gives the "10 Commandments" of yard design. On it, in order to save space, they cut off the yard lead. The way it is labeled, it looks like the ladder track is the yard lead. This is what I thought people were talking about. It took quite a while for me to figure out where I was wrong, but it made every suggestion people made confusing and try as I might to do what they say, I got it wrong. Anyway, they stuck with me and helped me design a layout that works quite well and looking back on it, is one of the better 4 x 8 layouts out there. For me it was dumb luck.

[SpaceMouse]

One more thing. I really like the split scene idea. But I would double the main on the rural side. Here's why. If you do, it can be used for staging for the industrial side. You can set up operations that can give you a couple hours of enjoyment without repeating your moves.

I'll try to get an explanation worked up later. In the meantime. look through your track plans to see if you can find an interesting, but not complicated, industrial switching for your industrial side. Make sure it includes a runaround. You'll want to have trains coming from both directions.

[West Coast S]

Spitfire, that's the design, manly presence? I do discern some open country in this plan.. This would a good application for a center divider, although now that I have a visual to work with I would angle it slightly in the direction from upper right to lower left and curve it to terminate at the three track spur on the left, a good location for a structure with enough bulk to hide the edge...Do have any provisions for stagging? A simple spur would suffice, even if portable due to space constraints and hung off the layout edge that could provide a loads in empties out scenario. I suggest this stagging be used as pure illusion to simulate great distances between the mine and processing plant, or lumber to a distant market or for that matter any industry, plus the added bonus of not having to physically model the plant will be a godsend when confronted with such restricted space. Kudos for not falling under the spell of trying to cram a yard into your design... I do like this design, it has great potential...I'm looking to build a small S pike as a experimenatal test lab. A design such as this would grab my undivided attention..


Dave

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpitFireV12RR

Thanks West Coast 5. Is it someting along the lines of this?:



(Click to enlarge)

The only thing is...there is no area that isn't ruined by some sort of manly presence. I am going to try to add a coal mine or something along those lines and have then transport the coal or even lumber to a processing plant.

Thanks,
Spit

[SpaceMouse]

Here's the staging tutorial.

http://www.chipengelmann.com/Trains/beginner/staging.html

[mikesmowers]

Speaking of ''red dirt'' anybody want some? I have pleanty here in South West Okla.

[Hillyard]

If you're looking for inspiration, check this site :
http://www.gatewaynmra.org/
They have several layouts that you might adapt.

If you have access to a public library with back issues of MR, MR had a 4x8 beginner layout in every July or August issue in the period of 1994- 2000 or so. When I got back into the hobby, I checked out every copy of MR & RMC for the previous 10 years, and photocopied anything of interest. This was very helpful.
You might want to check hobby shops, they usually have a good selection of track plan books.

I especially liked the MR Cripple Creek series, the layout had a divider down the middle making it two separate districts. The series also had a good introduction to operation. It's nice to have a purpose for your cars coming & going. I think this is now available as a book from Kalmbach.

For myself, I have a 4 x 8, for now. It's an adaptation of an RMC article on a layout that a teacher did for his 3rd grade class, and it was adapted from a earlier layout in Railroad Model Craftsman. It has 2 interchanges, and 9 industries; 2 passing tracks. I use an off layout fiddle yard to store & sort the rolling stock (first in, first out basis, by car category). My only flaw in building it was to make it too low (for my then little boy). Build it the right height for adults, and make a step platform for any little visitors.

Have fun with it. Figure out what you want to do with your railroad, and what works for YOU.

Hillyard

[jbloch]

Spit:

I would recc. that you look at Wescott's 101 track plans MRR book. I plan on modifying one of the plans in there. A lot of different types of plans are in there that can give you ideas even if you don't copy any specific plan. I'd also think about enlargening your area if you have the space--I'm planning a 6' X 12' which increases your flexiblity significantally--also allows for larger radius curves--a priority for me as I suspect that I may want to run large locos and/or passenger cars.

Jim

[SpaceMouse]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jbloch

Spit:

I would recc. that you look at Wescott's 101 track plans MRR book. I plan on modifying one of the plans in there. A lot of different types of plans are in there that can give you ideas even if you don't copy any specific plan. I'd also think about enlargening your area if you have the space--I'm planning a 6' X 12' which increases your flexiblity significantally--also allows for larger radius curves--a priority for me as I suspect that I may want to run large locos and/or passenger cars.

Jim

Be careful with those track plans. They are conceptual rather than to scale. I put one of them into a cad program. It was supposed to be 6" by 8 feet. By the time I had it drawn in the program, it was actually 9" x 11 feet. And it took a lot of effort to get it to work.

[Anonymous]

Okay guys, I found one I really like in HO scale in 48 Top Notch track plans. It's called the Hazzard County Short line. It's very nice, including a river and a tunnel. I'll take a picture of it sometime.

Thanks,
Spit

[Anonymous]

Alright...i redesigned it...sorta. I added a pass track(Forgot the name), and redid the spurring. The Spur against the mountain will be a coal mine. One of the two others will be a coal powerplant, and the last will be something else(duh). In the top right is the 3 track "yard". Once I finish the layout, I'm thinking of building a retractable lip that would extend the yard, and leave room for engine servicing and a roundhouse/engine house.Where the clump of part numbers is, would be the small town.

[Anonymous]

Hey Spitfire,

I seen a show on diy and they covered a 4x8 layout. Sounds like just the thing you were looking for. You may want to check the diy tv website. They covered everything from start to finish and I think they used a kit.

Godd Luck, Yosemite Sam 

[Anonymous]

Here's my favorite 4 x8 (other than my own):



And here is a discussion by Byron Henderson on how to operate it.

http://home.earthlink.net/~mrsvc/id39.html

The plan is by John Armstrong and is quite sophisticated. You can go a long way without outgrowing it. And it has a mountain and tunnel. If you want someone to design a layout for you you can't get better than this one from the master.

That has to be one of my favorite 4x8s as well. I did see one I liked better, I'll see if I can find it.