- Matt
QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 I was thinking that the yard engine would not be coming in from the mainline...but I guess that is wrong.
A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."
QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell Two hours later, OK, I revised my software and this is in HO. There are no curves sharper then 18 inches and all turnouts are #4's exept the one to the interchange and that's a #8. You will notice that it's pretty close to the edges so an extra 2 or 3 inches added to two sides would help a bunch, but it's all there. Maybe you can have your cake and eat it too. If you'd like I can Email you the plan in an .ral file so your RTS can read it. Just let me know if you want it.
QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 Oh, and I am running all modern so no caboose to worry about. I think I understand what you are all saying, I just don't know how to make it work. I am also afraid that this revision is just as bad as the original!!
QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 I know Peco makes a curved turnout. I was wondering if there was a way to create one or import one from another library in RightTrack.
QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell To me planning is one of the things that I like most. I can build 20 layouts in my head and on paper and it doesn't cost me a thing. And I get to learn from each one.
QUOTE: Now look at Texas Zepher's example he posted. ... (really nice plan BTW TZ).
QUOTE: " What if you had the yard lead come off the curve on the right of your plan and circle up to the top. Then set it up like TZ's yard with the A/D track and the yard, and just lose the loco facilities that he has (you don't have room for them).
QUOTE: You could also eliminate the current A/D siding.
QUOTE: Now on the main loop and the inside loop, switch the crossovers to make the lefts rights and the rights lefts. This would also eliminate one movement when taking a loco from the yard to the servicing facility.
QUOTE: I also added an escape track to the yard. TZ's plan didn't need one because you could access the TT directly, this one needs it.
QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 OK.....here we go. QUOTE: " What if you had the yard lead come off the curve on the right of your plan and circle up to the top. Then set it up like TZ's yard with the A/D track and the yard, and just lose the loco facilities that he has (you don't have room for them). QUOTE: I like that. Any idea what curved turnout would work well in this situation? I have never seen curved turnouts in a store so I was going to try and order a Peco one online. I just need to know what kind. Do they have turnout numbers like standard turnouts (#4, #6 etc...)? I think I will use a curved turnout exactly as you have it...from the right top part of the curve leading north to the yard entrance. I used a standard #6 lefthanded turnout with the curved leg continuing the mainline curve and the straight leg leading to the yard. You can use a curved turnout if you want, but you don't have to. QUOTE: You could also eliminate the current A/D siding. QUOTE: What do yoy mean by that? I eliminated the siding at the top of the mainline loop as it was no longer necessary. QUOTE: Now on the main loop and the inside loop, switch the crossovers to make the lefts rights and the rights lefts. This would also eliminate one movement when taking a loco from the yard to the servicing facility. QUOTE: Perfect...I love this idea! It makes it so there is one less movement for a loco to access the servicing facilities. I thought it was a quick and elegant solution. QUOTE: I also added an escape track to the yard. TZ's plan didn't need one because you could access the TT directly, this one needs it. What does that mean? An "escape track"? I don't get it. Also, what is TT and A/D as well? I guess I need to brush up on my lingo! Ok, lets hit the high points of yard lingo. A TT is a TurnTable. As A/D track is an Arrival/Departure track. An escape track is really a set of turnouts that allows a locomotive to pull head first onto a stub ended siding (or yard track) and be able to drop it's train and get out of the siding while leaving the cars in place. Now, what this means for you..... follow the yard lead off of the main. See where it hits the turnout in the top right of the plan? If you pull onto the left hand side of that turnout you enter the A/D track. This is where all arriving and departing takes place. So your train pulls onto this track until the end of the train clears that turnout. The loco is now out on the stub ended bottom most track of the yard. It disconnects from the rest of the train , leaving the cars there, and pulls towards the end of that track. Once there, the turnout that is closest to it (and the one off of that) is thrown to allow the loco to move to the next track up the yard and then out to the yard lead again so it can leave the area and go to the loco servicing area. While all this is going on, the yard goat has patiently (hopefully) been waiting on one of the yard tracks (doesn't matter which one, as long as it's out of the way) to start breaking the train down. Now he moves to the yard lead and hooks onto the back of the train and begins sorting the cars into the yard tracks. To make up a train, it's the same in reverse. Or you can build the train bacwards if you don't want to back onto the main. Philip Reply pcarrell Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: In the State of insanity! 7,982 posts Posted by pcarrell on Thursday, March 2, 2006 11:30 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 OK...I tried this. In addition to the questions I just asked in my last post (If pcarrell would be so kind to answer them) can someone look at the flex track curves in the top right and bottom left corners? I don't like the way these look (and the bottom right too where the interchange track is) Do you think maybe 3 Peco curved turnouts would fix this problem? I hope someone can think of somehting. If you look at the curved legs of those two turnouts, the curvature doesn't match the curvature of the inside track. A curved turnout might fix this, or it might not. The trick is finding a turnout that has a curved leg that is complimetary to the inside curve. I'm sorry this is kind of vague, but I don't know what your inside curve is (22 inch radius?). I notice that you've changed the yard some. It will work this way, except that there is no escape track (set of turnouts about halfway down the bottom two legs of the yard) so your incoming loco's will be trapped until the yard goat breaks down the train and gets it out of the way. Just food for thought. I noticed that you added a small two ended spur off of the A/D track. What did you have in mind for that? I can see several possibe uses for it. Team track maybe? Engine house for the yard goat? RIP track? What's your thoughts on that? Philip Reply SMassey Member sinceDecember 2005 From: Spanaway, WA 787 posts Posted by SMassey on Thursday, March 2, 2006 12:36 PM QUOTE: can someone look at the flex track curves in the top right and bottom left corners? I don't like the way these look (and the bottom right too where the interchange track is) one way you can make this look better is to remove the piece of sectional track in favor of flex track all the way. That way you can make the curve flow smoother without the kink where the sectional track meets the flex track. A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life." Reply pcarrell Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: In the State of insanity! 7,982 posts Posted by pcarrell on Thursday, March 2, 2006 12:45 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by SMassey QUOTE: can someone look at the flex track curves in the top right and bottom left corners? I don't like the way these look (and the bottom right too where the interchange track is) one way you can make this look better is to remove the piece of sectional track in favor of flex track all the way. That way you can make the curve flow smoother without the kink where the sectional track meets the flex track. True enough, but it's still the same main problem I think. That just disguises it a little better (And sometimes that's enough. I've used that same trick many times myself). The main problem I see is that the curvature of the turnout is different then the rails around it, so it throws things out of place a little. Fixing that should fix the problem. Philip Reply Texas Zepher Member sinceOctober 2004 From: Colorful Colorado 8,639 posts Posted by Texas Zepher on Thursday, March 2, 2006 1:16 PM Wow, much less track and I like it better. I would move the first turnout to the arrival/departure track right up next to the curve. Makes everything 9" longer. It would make things even longer if it was a curved turnout. Usually curved turnouts are just classified by the two radius of the departing tracks. Peco makes one that is almost 22" outside, 18" inside. Shinohara makes a 20 inside 24 outside. QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell I notice that you've changed the yard some. ... there is no escape track (set of turnouts about halfway down the bottom two legs of the yard) so your incoming loco's will be trapped until the yard goat breaks down the train and gets it out of the way. Yeah but easy to fix, just put a crossover back to the main from the track that goes to the two stubs. Actually the very original plan had one at this point (the original entrace to the yard). As soon as the goat takes the train the road locos can "shortcut" back to the main and saw across to the turn table. Reply pcarrell Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: In the State of insanity! 7,982 posts Posted by pcarrell on Thursday, March 2, 2006 1:56 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher Wow, much less track and I like it better. I would move the first turnout to the arrival/departure track right up next to the curve. Makes everything 9" longer. It would make things even longer if it was a curved turnout. Excellent point! QUOTE: Usually curved turnouts are just classified by the two radius of the departing tracks. Peco makes one that is almost 22" outside, 18" inside. Shinohara makes a 20 inside 24 outside. See, this is where I need help from people such as yourself. I model in N scale, so my knowledge of HO is a little limited. QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell I notice that you've changed the yard some. ... there is no escape track (set of turnouts about halfway down the bottom two legs of the yard) so your incoming loco's will be trapped until the yard goat breaks down the train and gets it out of the way. QUOTE: Yeah but easy to fix, just put a crossover back to the main from the track that goes to the two stubs. Actually the very original plan had one at this point (the original entrace to the yard). As soon as the goat takes the train the road locos can "shortcut" back to the main and saw across to the turn table. I LIKE THAT! That's good! Better then my plan by a long shot! Make it a right handed turnout off of the yard onto the main and you can get to the servicing facility in very few moves. Philip Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, March 3, 2006 5:06 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell If you look at the curved legs of those two turnouts, the curvature doesn't match the curvature of the inside track. A curved turnout might fix this, or it might not. The trick is finding a turnout that has a curved leg that is complimetary to the inside curve. I'm sorry this is kind of vague, but I don't know what your inside curve is (22 inch radius?). I notice that you've changed the yard some. It will work this way, except that there is no escape track (set of turnouts about halfway down the bottom two legs of the yard) so your incoming loco's will be trapped until the yard goat breaks down the train and gets it out of the way. Just food for thought. I noticed that you added a small two ended spur off of the A/D track. What did you have in mind for that? I can see several possibe uses for it. Team track maybe? Engine house for the yard goat? RIP track? What's your thoughts on that? OK...first question. The mainline is 24" and the shortline is 22" (You are correct) Second, I didn't understand the reason for the escape track but since I do now I will be adding them in ASAP. Third, The small two ended spur I was thinking an engine house for the yard loco and maybe an office. I figure the yard loco can go to the TT for the RIP track there. I will model some RIP structures on the RIP in the center of the layout off of the TT. I might just stick an old caboose without trucks on the spur in the yard (for the office) and a shed for the loco. I have a question...what is a team track? Oh..and thanks for the explanation! It helped a lot. Just a quick question again though. When the road loco brings the train in on the A/D track does the train need to fit all the way down that spur (the bottom most spur)? Or can it just fit inside the turnout at the entrance to the A/D track? Also...the A/D track is the first left hand turnout off of the yard entrance right? The second left hand turnout would be the yard lead? Is that correct. I figure since the ladder comes off of the second, that is the yard lead. Reply Edit pcarrell Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: In the State of insanity! 7,982 posts Posted by pcarrell on Friday, March 3, 2006 7:53 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 OK...first question. The mainline is 24" and the shortline is 22" (You are correct) I thought that was what you'd said. QUOTE: Second, I didn't understand the reason for the escape track but since I do now I will be adding them in ASAP. See. this stuff isn't so hard. It's just a matter of figuring your way through it step by step. QUOTE: Third, The small two ended spur I was thinking an engine house for the yard loco and maybe an office. I figure the yard loco can go to the TT for the RIP track there. I will model some RIP structures on the RIP in the center of the layout off of the TT. I might just stick an old caboose without trucks on the spur in the yard (for the office) and a shed for the loco. I kind of figured that, but I thought I'd ask. It'll work well for that. QUOTE: I have a question...what is a team track? This one was so simple I almost kicked myself when I found out. It's a track where cars are set out, usually boxcars, and they are at just the right height so that a team of horses (pulling a wagon of course) could pull right up to the door and load or unload straight into the car. Sometimes there is a small wooden or earthen ramp there next to the track for the team. See, I told you it was simple. In a more modern context the team of horses would be replaced by a truck (pick up or larger). QUOTE: Oh..and thanks for the explanation! It helped a lot. No problem. This is one of those things I just had to go one step at a time to figure it out. QUOTE: Just a quick question again though. Shoot! QUOTE: When the road loco brings the train in on the A/D track does the train need to fit all the way down that spur (the bottom most spur)? Or can it just fit inside the turnout at the entrance to the A/D track? Right on the second shot. If the train pulls all the way down the siding the loco won't have room to uncouple, pull past the escape turnouts, and get out. This means that your maximum train length is determined by the length of the A/D track from just past the turnout off of the yard lead to just before the escape track. That's why you want that distance to be as long as possible. QUOTE: Also...the A/D track is the first left hand turnout off of the yard entrance right? The second left hand turnout would be the yard lead? Is that correct. I figure since the ladder comes off of the second, that is the yard lead. By jove, I think he's got it! Right on the money, man. See, I told you this wasn't to hard. You just have to think your way through it. In my case, that took a while![;)] Seem's to me that you have a decent grasp on this thing now. I'd still suggest you pick up a copy of "Track Planning For Realistic Operation" by John Armstrong. It really is worth every penny of the asking price. The pictures and diagrams help a lot in understanding the tracks and how trains move over them. I still learn stuff from my copy, and I've had it for yaers! Philip Reply Texas Zepher Member sinceOctober 2004 From: Colorful Colorado 8,639 posts Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, March 3, 2006 11:51 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 When the road loco brings the train in on the A/D track does the train need to fit all the way down that spur (the bottom most spur)? Or can it just fit inside the turnout at the entrance to the A/D track? I know pcarrell already answered this but I wanted to try again with different words. It just needs to fit inside the turnout at the entrance to the A/D track. The important thing is that the yard engine can get behind it. Whether the yard engine sits on the ladder or comes all the way from the turn table it doesn't matter. In this little amout of space, seldom is a train going to be short enough for the road engine to cut off without help from the yard engine. Ideally it should be able to just leave the train their, return to the loco facilities and not worry about the train it just left behind. On a 4x8 there isn't enough space to do that with trains any longer than 3 cars. A final coment. I did really want to point out how close this is to your original design of a yard that we picked appart. Basically we came full circle back to your original with the exception of the curved lead on the right. So you see, you weren't that far off. Looks like the 2nd-try of a yard picture overlaid the first try. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 4, 2006 3:21 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher In this little amout of space, seldom is a train going to be short enough for the road engine to cut off without help from the yard engine. Ideally it should be able to just leave the train their, return to the loco facilities and not worry about the train it just left behind. On a 4x8 there isn't enough space to do that with trains any longer than 3 cars. A final coment. I did really want to point out how close this is to your original design of a yard that we picked appart. Basically we came full circle back to your original with the exception of the curved lead on the right. So you see, you weren't that far off. Looks like the 2nd-try of a yard picture overlaid the first try. Do you think I will have space to put a right handed turnout on the A/D track? I know I can put one on there, but I don't have room on the mainline to connect back. I think I am going to be forced to just use the escape track ide by putting the left handed turnouts on the A/D track and the 2nd track i the yard. After the road loco cuts off of the train it can go back to the TT by slipping up to track #2 and then up the ladder to the yard lead and back. I know it is a bit of a haul, but it is all I can think of (UNLESS someone can come up with a better design) Thanks for the explanation of the yard operation. The yard goat can sit on the ladder track and wait until the train is completely inside the first turnout. The while the road loco cuts off the yard goat can break the rear of the train off and start pushing cars into the spurs. That might be my only alternative in order to make room for the road engine to get back out. If the yard goat is on the ladder it will be in the road engine's way, so either it has to tuck in to track 3 or 4 or go to the back of the train until the road engine leaves. TZ, is the comment about going full circle back to what I had a bad thing? I don't know how to take that comment. You said we picked apart my original plan and we have gone back to that plan, so is that bad? Reply Edit pcarrell Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: In the State of insanity! 7,982 posts Posted by pcarrell on Saturday, March 4, 2006 8:11 AM Lava, Your original plan was very good. I said that and so did others. The fact that we haven't deviated far from that proves the soundness of the original idea. It is a good plan, it's just that it could be a bit better with some minor modifications. Now that those are done it works even better. You know, one thing you didn't mention is that the goat could sit on the far end of track two also. I looked at the plan again and you're right. There's no room to have the escape track go straight to the main without sacraficing the crossover just left of the cutoff for the servicing facility. Even if you did do that it would have to be a left handed turnout on the main so that the straight leg is on the escape track and the curved leg would have to match the curvature of the main (24"R). If you did this you could move the escape turnout on the A/D track down towards the end of that track, effectively making the A/D track longer. You just have to leave enough room for the loco to clear the points at the end. Your call though. Man, I'll tell you what,......YOU ARE SOOOOOOO CLOSE!!!!! With all the help you're getting here, especially from TZ (he's a wealth of knowledge and ideas, isn't he?), you're going to have one killer track plan![8D] Philip Reply Texas Zepher Member sinceOctober 2004 From: Colorful Colorado 8,639 posts Posted by Texas Zepher on Saturday, March 4, 2006 2:25 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 TZ, is the comment about going full circle back to what I had a bad thing? I don't know how to take that comment. You said we picked apart my original plan and we have gone back to that plan, so is that bad? NO, no the opposite - I was trying to compliment your original work. I thought you were sort of down on yourself for 'not getting it' when you were really closer than our comments would have indicated. QUOTE: Do you think I will have space to put a right handed turnout on the A/D track? I know I can put one on there, but I don't have room on the mainline to connect back. I can think of three potential alternatives to using track #2. 1. Use a Wye turnout off the main. That way one curves toward the yard while the other curves with the curve. Might have to "kink" the main down to a 22" to make up for it. 2. For the right hand crossover on the main. Replace the turnout on the outside with a single or double slip switch. That way the track from the yard basically crosses over the outside main. 3. Put the crossover on the switchback after it departs from the A/D track (least desireable because of how much A/D track is consumed. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 4, 2006 9:17 PM You guys have all been awesome! Thanks for the comments, I think I am almost ready to start laying track I have a couple problems though. I still cannot find any place onlinne that sells the curved turnouts. TZ just confused me with all 3 of his last suggestions. I don't think I see what you are talking about. Maybe I am just blind to it but the idea about the wye and the single or double slip switch has flown right over my head. Can you illustrate somehow or maybe explain differently? Reply Edit SMassey Member sinceDecember 2005 From: Spanaway, WA 787 posts Posted by SMassey on Saturday, March 4, 2006 9:58 PM Walthers.com will have both the SHinohara and the Peco turnouts that you need. A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life." Reply Texas Zepher Member sinceOctober 2004 From: Colorful Colorado 8,639 posts Posted by Texas Zepher on Sunday, March 5, 2006 8:30 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 TZ just confused me with all 3 of his last suggestions. I don't think I see what you are talking about. Maybe I am just blind to it but the idea about the wye and the single or double slip switch has flown right over my head. Can you illustrate somehow or maybe explain differently? Yes words can be hard: The wye solution The double slip solution The cross over solution With RTS the crossover solution fit best. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:26 PM I don't think I understand the double slip solution. Is that a special turnout or is it just a crossover switch? If it is just a crossing then wouldn't that force the loco into going right from the yard to the inner loop and not be able to go to the outer? Not that that is a problem but since it occurs so close to the beginning of the A/D track it shortens the length. In the 3rd solution I don't see how I could get the locomotive off of the front of the train. If the loco pulls into the A/D track all the way past the first turnout on the yard lead then it is stuck at the end of the spur. It would have to sit there until the yard goat broke the enitire train down. I do however like the wye solution, but it is hard to get things lined up. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:34 PM Here is what I came up with. I had to make it 6" longer too. So now overall I am at 8'6" x 5'. I guessed that with 5' x 8' benchwork I could overhang the left and right ends by 3" giving me 8'6" total. I also figure I can overhang the front and back by 1" giving me 5'2" in width. The benchwork is going to really give me trouble now. I can only find 8' boards so lying 2 of them long ways is easy. Then cutting the short lengths to give me 5' is easy too. But going any longer than 8' I am stumped! Do you think I should just stick with 8'6" by 5'? And what do you think of this layout? I am still trying to mess around with the wye instead of the escape track but I am having a lot of trouble! Reply Edit 123 Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
QUOTE: I like that. Any idea what curved turnout would work well in this situation? I have never seen curved turnouts in a store so I was going to try and order a Peco one online. I just need to know what kind. Do they have turnout numbers like standard turnouts (#4, #6 etc...)? I think I will use a curved turnout exactly as you have it...from the right top part of the curve leading north to the yard entrance.
QUOTE: What do yoy mean by that?
QUOTE: Perfect...I love this idea!
What does that mean? An "escape track"? I don't get it. Also, what is TT and A/D as well? I guess I need to brush up on my lingo!
QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 OK...I tried this. In addition to the questions I just asked in my last post (If pcarrell would be so kind to answer them) can someone look at the flex track curves in the top right and bottom left corners? I don't like the way these look (and the bottom right too where the interchange track is) Do you think maybe 3 Peco curved turnouts would fix this problem? I hope someone can think of somehting.
QUOTE: can someone look at the flex track curves in the top right and bottom left corners? I don't like the way these look (and the bottom right too where the interchange track is)
QUOTE: Originally posted by SMassey QUOTE: can someone look at the flex track curves in the top right and bottom left corners? I don't like the way these look (and the bottom right too where the interchange track is) one way you can make this look better is to remove the piece of sectional track in favor of flex track all the way. That way you can make the curve flow smoother without the kink where the sectional track meets the flex track.
QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell I notice that you've changed the yard some. ... there is no escape track (set of turnouts about halfway down the bottom two legs of the yard) so your incoming loco's will be trapped until the yard goat breaks down the train and gets it out of the way.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher Wow, much less track and I like it better. I would move the first turnout to the arrival/departure track right up next to the curve. Makes everything 9" longer. It would make things even longer if it was a curved turnout.
QUOTE: Usually curved turnouts are just classified by the two radius of the departing tracks. Peco makes one that is almost 22" outside, 18" inside. Shinohara makes a 20 inside 24 outside.
QUOTE: Yeah but easy to fix, just put a crossover back to the main from the track that goes to the two stubs. Actually the very original plan had one at this point (the original entrace to the yard). As soon as the goat takes the train the road locos can "shortcut" back to the main and saw across to the turn table.
QUOTE: Originally posted by pcarrell If you look at the curved legs of those two turnouts, the curvature doesn't match the curvature of the inside track. A curved turnout might fix this, or it might not. The trick is finding a turnout that has a curved leg that is complimetary to the inside curve. I'm sorry this is kind of vague, but I don't know what your inside curve is (22 inch radius?). I notice that you've changed the yard some. It will work this way, except that there is no escape track (set of turnouts about halfway down the bottom two legs of the yard) so your incoming loco's will be trapped until the yard goat breaks down the train and gets it out of the way. Just food for thought. I noticed that you added a small two ended spur off of the A/D track. What did you have in mind for that? I can see several possibe uses for it. Team track maybe? Engine house for the yard goat? RIP track? What's your thoughts on that? OK...first question. The mainline is 24" and the shortline is 22" (You are correct) Second, I didn't understand the reason for the escape track but since I do now I will be adding them in ASAP. Third, The small two ended spur I was thinking an engine house for the yard loco and maybe an office. I figure the yard loco can go to the TT for the RIP track there. I will model some RIP structures on the RIP in the center of the layout off of the TT. I might just stick an old caboose without trucks on the spur in the yard (for the office) and a shed for the loco. I have a question...what is a team track? Oh..and thanks for the explanation! It helped a lot. Just a quick question again though. When the road loco brings the train in on the A/D track does the train need to fit all the way down that spur (the bottom most spur)? Or can it just fit inside the turnout at the entrance to the A/D track? Also...the A/D track is the first left hand turnout off of the yard entrance right? The second left hand turnout would be the yard lead? Is that correct. I figure since the ladder comes off of the second, that is the yard lead. Reply Edit pcarrell Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: In the State of insanity! 7,982 posts Posted by pcarrell on Friday, March 3, 2006 7:53 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 OK...first question. The mainline is 24" and the shortline is 22" (You are correct) I thought that was what you'd said. QUOTE: Second, I didn't understand the reason for the escape track but since I do now I will be adding them in ASAP. See. this stuff isn't so hard. It's just a matter of figuring your way through it step by step. QUOTE: Third, The small two ended spur I was thinking an engine house for the yard loco and maybe an office. I figure the yard loco can go to the TT for the RIP track there. I will model some RIP structures on the RIP in the center of the layout off of the TT. I might just stick an old caboose without trucks on the spur in the yard (for the office) and a shed for the loco. I kind of figured that, but I thought I'd ask. It'll work well for that. QUOTE: I have a question...what is a team track? This one was so simple I almost kicked myself when I found out. It's a track where cars are set out, usually boxcars, and they are at just the right height so that a team of horses (pulling a wagon of course) could pull right up to the door and load or unload straight into the car. Sometimes there is a small wooden or earthen ramp there next to the track for the team. See, I told you it was simple. In a more modern context the team of horses would be replaced by a truck (pick up or larger). QUOTE: Oh..and thanks for the explanation! It helped a lot. No problem. This is one of those things I just had to go one step at a time to figure it out. QUOTE: Just a quick question again though. Shoot! QUOTE: When the road loco brings the train in on the A/D track does the train need to fit all the way down that spur (the bottom most spur)? Or can it just fit inside the turnout at the entrance to the A/D track? Right on the second shot. If the train pulls all the way down the siding the loco won't have room to uncouple, pull past the escape turnouts, and get out. This means that your maximum train length is determined by the length of the A/D track from just past the turnout off of the yard lead to just before the escape track. That's why you want that distance to be as long as possible. QUOTE: Also...the A/D track is the first left hand turnout off of the yard entrance right? The second left hand turnout would be the yard lead? Is that correct. I figure since the ladder comes off of the second, that is the yard lead. By jove, I think he's got it! Right on the money, man. See, I told you this wasn't to hard. You just have to think your way through it. In my case, that took a while![;)] Seem's to me that you have a decent grasp on this thing now. I'd still suggest you pick up a copy of "Track Planning For Realistic Operation" by John Armstrong. It really is worth every penny of the asking price. The pictures and diagrams help a lot in understanding the tracks and how trains move over them. I still learn stuff from my copy, and I've had it for yaers! Philip Reply Texas Zepher Member sinceOctober 2004 From: Colorful Colorado 8,639 posts Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, March 3, 2006 11:51 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 When the road loco brings the train in on the A/D track does the train need to fit all the way down that spur (the bottom most spur)? Or can it just fit inside the turnout at the entrance to the A/D track? I know pcarrell already answered this but I wanted to try again with different words. It just needs to fit inside the turnout at the entrance to the A/D track. The important thing is that the yard engine can get behind it. Whether the yard engine sits on the ladder or comes all the way from the turn table it doesn't matter. In this little amout of space, seldom is a train going to be short enough for the road engine to cut off without help from the yard engine. Ideally it should be able to just leave the train their, return to the loco facilities and not worry about the train it just left behind. On a 4x8 there isn't enough space to do that with trains any longer than 3 cars. A final coment. I did really want to point out how close this is to your original design of a yard that we picked appart. Basically we came full circle back to your original with the exception of the curved lead on the right. So you see, you weren't that far off. Looks like the 2nd-try of a yard picture overlaid the first try. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 4, 2006 3:21 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher In this little amout of space, seldom is a train going to be short enough for the road engine to cut off without help from the yard engine. Ideally it should be able to just leave the train their, return to the loco facilities and not worry about the train it just left behind. On a 4x8 there isn't enough space to do that with trains any longer than 3 cars. A final coment. I did really want to point out how close this is to your original design of a yard that we picked appart. Basically we came full circle back to your original with the exception of the curved lead on the right. So you see, you weren't that far off. Looks like the 2nd-try of a yard picture overlaid the first try. Do you think I will have space to put a right handed turnout on the A/D track? I know I can put one on there, but I don't have room on the mainline to connect back. I think I am going to be forced to just use the escape track ide by putting the left handed turnouts on the A/D track and the 2nd track i the yard. After the road loco cuts off of the train it can go back to the TT by slipping up to track #2 and then up the ladder to the yard lead and back. I know it is a bit of a haul, but it is all I can think of (UNLESS someone can come up with a better design) Thanks for the explanation of the yard operation. The yard goat can sit on the ladder track and wait until the train is completely inside the first turnout. The while the road loco cuts off the yard goat can break the rear of the train off and start pushing cars into the spurs. That might be my only alternative in order to make room for the road engine to get back out. If the yard goat is on the ladder it will be in the road engine's way, so either it has to tuck in to track 3 or 4 or go to the back of the train until the road engine leaves. TZ, is the comment about going full circle back to what I had a bad thing? I don't know how to take that comment. You said we picked apart my original plan and we have gone back to that plan, so is that bad? Reply Edit pcarrell Member sinceFebruary 2005 From: In the State of insanity! 7,982 posts Posted by pcarrell on Saturday, March 4, 2006 8:11 AM Lava, Your original plan was very good. I said that and so did others. The fact that we haven't deviated far from that proves the soundness of the original idea. It is a good plan, it's just that it could be a bit better with some minor modifications. Now that those are done it works even better. You know, one thing you didn't mention is that the goat could sit on the far end of track two also. I looked at the plan again and you're right. There's no room to have the escape track go straight to the main without sacraficing the crossover just left of the cutoff for the servicing facility. Even if you did do that it would have to be a left handed turnout on the main so that the straight leg is on the escape track and the curved leg would have to match the curvature of the main (24"R). If you did this you could move the escape turnout on the A/D track down towards the end of that track, effectively making the A/D track longer. You just have to leave enough room for the loco to clear the points at the end. Your call though. Man, I'll tell you what,......YOU ARE SOOOOOOO CLOSE!!!!! With all the help you're getting here, especially from TZ (he's a wealth of knowledge and ideas, isn't he?), you're going to have one killer track plan![8D] Philip Reply Texas Zepher Member sinceOctober 2004 From: Colorful Colorado 8,639 posts Posted by Texas Zepher on Saturday, March 4, 2006 2:25 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 TZ, is the comment about going full circle back to what I had a bad thing? I don't know how to take that comment. You said we picked apart my original plan and we have gone back to that plan, so is that bad? NO, no the opposite - I was trying to compliment your original work. I thought you were sort of down on yourself for 'not getting it' when you were really closer than our comments would have indicated. QUOTE: Do you think I will have space to put a right handed turnout on the A/D track? I know I can put one on there, but I don't have room on the mainline to connect back. I can think of three potential alternatives to using track #2. 1. Use a Wye turnout off the main. That way one curves toward the yard while the other curves with the curve. Might have to "kink" the main down to a 22" to make up for it. 2. For the right hand crossover on the main. Replace the turnout on the outside with a single or double slip switch. That way the track from the yard basically crosses over the outside main. 3. Put the crossover on the switchback after it departs from the A/D track (least desireable because of how much A/D track is consumed. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 4, 2006 9:17 PM You guys have all been awesome! Thanks for the comments, I think I am almost ready to start laying track I have a couple problems though. I still cannot find any place onlinne that sells the curved turnouts. TZ just confused me with all 3 of his last suggestions. I don't think I see what you are talking about. Maybe I am just blind to it but the idea about the wye and the single or double slip switch has flown right over my head. Can you illustrate somehow or maybe explain differently? Reply Edit SMassey Member sinceDecember 2005 From: Spanaway, WA 787 posts Posted by SMassey on Saturday, March 4, 2006 9:58 PM Walthers.com will have both the SHinohara and the Peco turnouts that you need. A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life." Reply Texas Zepher Member sinceOctober 2004 From: Colorful Colorado 8,639 posts Posted by Texas Zepher on Sunday, March 5, 2006 8:30 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 TZ just confused me with all 3 of his last suggestions. I don't think I see what you are talking about. Maybe I am just blind to it but the idea about the wye and the single or double slip switch has flown right over my head. Can you illustrate somehow or maybe explain differently? Yes words can be hard: The wye solution The double slip solution The cross over solution With RTS the crossover solution fit best. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:26 PM I don't think I understand the double slip solution. Is that a special turnout or is it just a crossover switch? If it is just a crossing then wouldn't that force the loco into going right from the yard to the inner loop and not be able to go to the outer? Not that that is a problem but since it occurs so close to the beginning of the A/D track it shortens the length. In the 3rd solution I don't see how I could get the locomotive off of the front of the train. If the loco pulls into the A/D track all the way past the first turnout on the yard lead then it is stuck at the end of the spur. It would have to sit there until the yard goat broke the enitire train down. I do however like the wye solution, but it is hard to get things lined up. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, March 5, 2006 10:34 PM Here is what I came up with. I had to make it 6" longer too. So now overall I am at 8'6" x 5'. I guessed that with 5' x 8' benchwork I could overhang the left and right ends by 3" giving me 8'6" total. I also figure I can overhang the front and back by 1" giving me 5'2" in width. The benchwork is going to really give me trouble now. I can only find 8' boards so lying 2 of them long ways is easy. Then cutting the short lengths to give me 5' is easy too. But going any longer than 8' I am stumped! Do you think I should just stick with 8'6" by 5'? And what do you think of this layout? I am still trying to mess around with the wye instead of the escape track but I am having a lot of trouble! Reply Edit 123 Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
If you look at the curved legs of those two turnouts, the curvature doesn't match the curvature of the inside track. A curved turnout might fix this, or it might not. The trick is finding a turnout that has a curved leg that is complimetary to the inside curve. I'm sorry this is kind of vague, but I don't know what your inside curve is (22 inch radius?). I notice that you've changed the yard some. It will work this way, except that there is no escape track (set of turnouts about halfway down the bottom two legs of the yard) so your incoming loco's will be trapped until the yard goat breaks down the train and gets it out of the way. Just food for thought. I noticed that you added a small two ended spur off of the A/D track. What did you have in mind for that? I can see several possibe uses for it. Team track maybe? Engine house for the yard goat? RIP track? What's your thoughts on that?
QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 OK...first question. The mainline is 24" and the shortline is 22" (You are correct)
QUOTE: Second, I didn't understand the reason for the escape track but since I do now I will be adding them in ASAP.
QUOTE: Third, The small two ended spur I was thinking an engine house for the yard loco and maybe an office. I figure the yard loco can go to the TT for the RIP track there. I will model some RIP structures on the RIP in the center of the layout off of the TT. I might just stick an old caboose without trucks on the spur in the yard (for the office) and a shed for the loco.
QUOTE: I have a question...what is a team track?
QUOTE: Oh..and thanks for the explanation! It helped a lot.
QUOTE: Just a quick question again though.
QUOTE: When the road loco brings the train in on the A/D track does the train need to fit all the way down that spur (the bottom most spur)? Or can it just fit inside the turnout at the entrance to the A/D track?
QUOTE: Also...the A/D track is the first left hand turnout off of the yard entrance right? The second left hand turnout would be the yard lead? Is that correct. I figure since the ladder comes off of the second, that is the yard lead.
QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 When the road loco brings the train in on the A/D track does the train need to fit all the way down that spur (the bottom most spur)? Or can it just fit inside the turnout at the entrance to the A/D track?
QUOTE: Originally posted by Texas Zepher In this little amout of space, seldom is a train going to be short enough for the road engine to cut off without help from the yard engine. Ideally it should be able to just leave the train their, return to the loco facilities and not worry about the train it just left behind. On a 4x8 there isn't enough space to do that with trains any longer than 3 cars. A final coment. I did really want to point out how close this is to your original design of a yard that we picked appart. Basically we came full circle back to your original with the exception of the curved lead on the right. So you see, you weren't that far off. Looks like the 2nd-try of a yard picture overlaid the first try.
QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 TZ, is the comment about going full circle back to what I had a bad thing? I don't know how to take that comment. You said we picked apart my original plan and we have gone back to that plan, so is that bad?
QUOTE: Do you think I will have space to put a right handed turnout on the A/D track? I know I can put one on there, but I don't have room on the mainline to connect back.
QUOTE: Originally posted by lava96 TZ just confused me with all 3 of his last suggestions. I don't think I see what you are talking about. Maybe I am just blind to it but the idea about the wye and the single or double slip switch has flown right over my head. Can you illustrate somehow or maybe explain differently?