turnout wireing

[Anonymous]

I had a small layout before I retired, now I've built a much bigger one and I need to use a simple toggle switch for my turnouts. All I do is burn them up so something is wrong. The toggles have (on-on) with 6 terminals on back. Can someone draw a simple drawing to show me which wires go to which terminals? Thanks[?]

[MisterBeasley]

What kind of switch motors are you using? If you have twin-coil machines, like Atlas or Peco, then you need momentary-contact controls for them. It sounds like you have a double-pole, double-throw (DPDT) toggle switch, which would be appropriate only for constant-voltage switch motors like Tortoise.

[Anonymous]

All of the turnouts are Atlas Snap switch. Before I used the small Atlas slide switch and it worked good. I just haven't figured this toggle out. It has no in between position its on or on. The six terminals on the back make up seperate cicuirts inside. I took one toggle apart . I have a stack of model railroads mag. but can't find a digagram. Hope this helps.

[mcouvillion]

Bardan,

You need to use normally open momentary contacts with your Atlas switch machines. The double pole double throw (DPDT) switches you are using leave power on the switch motor and it burns the internal coil up. With these switch motors, you only want power on for an instant, just long enough to change the position of the turnout. Otherwise - poof!!!

Go by Radio Shack and ask for small momentary contact switches. They are pushbuttons with two connections on the back. The color will be red or black. Make sure they are NORMALLY OPEN. When you pu***he button, you complete the circuit. There are other maufacturers of the momentary contact switches, but you can demonstrate what the Atlas pushbutton is doing with these. Good luck.

Mark C.

[BR60103]

You can start a nice fire on your layout (or at least create a lot of smoke) by having a switch machine stay on.
After you replace the switches you have with the pushbuttons, you can keep the others for reversing switches.
The toggle switch you thought you were getting is, for all practical purposes, not available. Certainly not in any of the big chain electric stores. Pushbuttons work better.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for your help. I got these from EBAY and he claimed they would work for what I wanted them for. O'well.

[jxtrrx]

You can get the push buttons cheaper on line. I just bought a bunch from http://www.allelectronics.com/ Remember, you need two for each turnout.

[Anonymous]

I've also had good luck with allelectronics.com.

Another option is a DPDT switch like you have, but set up as on-off-on with momentary on the ons. Think of it as spring-loaded. You push up for one way, down for the other, switch always returns to the center and off when you release it.

Allows you to have one switch per turnout (rather than two pushbuttons), though both methods work fine... Might boil down to whether you can get the pushbuttons for <50% the price of DPDT's (since you need twice as many), or your preferenced. I got similar DPDTs for about $0.70 each from a guy on Ebay and they've worked out fine. Never used pushbutton style, so not sure what a good price on those is.

[Anonymous]

I HAVE PECO TURNOUTS AND NEED TO PURCHASE THE TWO MOMENTARY BUTTONS FOR EACH TURNOUT..QUESTION IS A COUPLE OF MY TURNOUTS WILL BE HIDDEN. WHAT DO I NEED AND CAN I WIRE THEM USING REG AND GREEN BULBS OR LEDS TO SHOW WHICH POSITION THE TURNOUTS ARE TURNED TO. I WILL MENTION THAT I HAVE THE ELECTROFROG TURNOUTS AND HAVE ALREADY WIRED THE FROGS TO AN SPDT SWITCH FOR CORRECT POLARITY. THANKS

[fwright]

Amoscatello

You realize that your arrangement will require you to both push a button AND throw the toggle switch every time you change a turnout's position?

Question as I'm not familiar with Peco switch machines - do the Peco switch machines have extra contacts on them? The following assumes not:

Most expensive, yet elegant and reliable way to do what you want using Peco switch machnes: Use a capacitive discharge system for power. Get rid of the toggles and use push buttons, or get momentary SPDT toggles. Install a latching DPDT relay that is actuated at the same time as the switch machine (reason for the CD power). Use one set of relay contacts to provide correct frog polarity. Use second set of contacts to switch LEDs to indicate direction. This scheme keeps LED power totally separate - you can use a low voltage DC supply or use higher voltage and resistor.

If you want to stay with your combination of toggles and push buttons (have to do BOTH every time or you will cause a short): Replace the SPDT toggle with a DPDT toggle and run the LEDs off the second pole on the toggle (just like the contacts on the relay in the other alternative).

Another alternative (very expensive) - replace Peco switch machines with Tortoise. Depending on wiring configuration, you can use toggle switches to show turnout position (momentary toggles not required) and/or wire LEDs in switch machine circuit (no extra contacts required). Tortoises also have extra contacts for frog polarity.

Last alternative: replace Peco switch machines with twin coil alternatives with extra contacts built-in.

Bottom line: with twin coil switch machines, you need 2 sets of contacts - one for frog polarity, and one for the LEDs. A CD supply is advisable for best performance and long switch machine life and will also throw multiple switch machines/relays simultaneously with ease. Use push buttons or momentary toggles for control.

yours in turnout control

[claycts]

My $.02, for the money ($10.00) the Atlas #66 Delux undertable has all the connections you need, frog, lights, throw. Us Push buttons and you are home free.
The Tortise is the Rolls Royce of this idea at $16.95 PLUS the edge connector $3.95. At $20.00 per turnout motor that gets a liitle pricey.

[Jacktal]

Amoscatello...Atlas sells a neat latching DPDT relay called the Snap Relay (Atlas 200) which can be wired in parallel with your TO motors so that they'll follow TO movements.One side can handle frog power and the other side your signal lights.They would eliminate the hassle of switching your SPDT at the same time you throw your TO so you don't get instant shorts when timing isn't right.A single momentary SPDT switch could then do all this.

Tortoise are indeed great for this,probably the best option,although costly.Another solution is Peco's PL-13 accessory switch that fits underneath the PL-10 TO motor for frog power,signals,etc,but I haven't heard of anyone using them.They could be pricey (as these are Peco's) but it could be surprising as they look simple in design.And you'd probably have to order them........

[Anonymous]

Kchronister, what is the exact name of the DPDT switch you are talking about?

[Anonymous]

I THANK ALL YOU GUYS FOR YOUR IMPUT ON MY QUESTION. I FOUND OUT THAT A FRIEND OF MINE HAS ABOUT A DOZEN OF THE ATLAS SNAP 200 WHICH IS ABOUT HOW MANY I NEED. SO IM GOING TO TRY THAT OPTION....THANKS AGAIN

[Jacktal]

And if these Snap Relays are "new in box",they have a very well detailed installation sheet that will enable you to do what you want.But remember that you can't use your regular SPDT switches to actuate them as constant current will fry these in no time,along with your Peco twin coil motors."Momentary" SPDT switches (On-Off-On) or individual push button switches will be fine.

[Anonymous]

So I have my DPDT (on-off-on) momentary switch. How do I wire it for a Bachmann turnout? Do I connect the three wires from the turnout to the three ports on one side of the switch and the two wires from the accessory power pack to the other side? So the DPDT switch would look like this:
to turnout {----------o o--------} to power source
to turnout {----------o o--------} to power source
to turnout {----------o o

[BR60103]

Skip: No way. Take the 3 terminals on one side of the switch. Move the toggle one way and the center terminal is connected to one of the ends. Move it the other way and it is connected to the other end. Nothing connects across.
Take one wire from the power source (call it the white wire) and connect it to the center terminal on one side. Connect a red wire and a green wire to the end terminals on that side and run these to the terminals on the switch machine. (Where depends on what switch machine, but there's only a few combinations. Can't do any damage at this point.) The other wire from the power source goes to the other terminal on the switch machine (start with the middle one).
Now try the switch. If it throws both ways, you're fine. If it throws one way only, you have the black wire on the wrong terminal.
You could use the white and black wire to figure out which terminals work ahead of time.
I'm not sure what to do with the other 3 terminals.

[Anonymous]

So it would be like this:
to turnout {------------------o o--------} to turnout
to power source {---------o o--------} to power source
to turnout {------------------o o

[NeO6874]

no, you have it wrong still.. .but its close

the DPDT will look like this

TO Turnout {------------o o----------} (NOTHING)
POWER SRC{---------o o----------} (NOTHING)
TO Turnout {------------o o----------} (NOTHING)

then the OTHER Power source lead would connect to the other Turnout wire. If its Atlas Snap Switch Solenoids, the two wires from the Solenoid to the DPDT swithc will be RED and GREEN, and the third (BLACK) wire will go to your BLACK POWER SRC.

you could probably use the other 3 leads for a second switch, say in a situation like this (IGNORE THE *, i needed them to make the picture look "right"):

TRK A
***\ TO1
****\ TO2
TRK B

you would then throw both Turnouts at the same time, if you wired it like this (I think)

TO1 RED {---------------o o---------------}TO2 RED
WHT PWR SRC {-----o o---------------}WHT PWR SRC
TO1 GREEN {----------o o---------------}TO2 GREEN

(again, ignore the * - they were just used to make the picture look "right")

TO1 BLK{-------
*****************\__BLK PWR SRC
*****************/
TO2 BLK(-------

I think this is all right, though i might be off on the colors of the wire.

[Anonymous]

Ok, thanks NeO6874.

[NeO6874]

you should be thanking BR60103, he was the one who stated how to do it , i just got it illustrated [:)]

though, as BR said, you might need to play with the wires, ESPECIALLY if you're going to be using the DPDT to throw two Turnouts at once. although, i KNOW that the black is the common ground (i took apart one of the atlas switches that come in the TO package) i think RED then throws the points to the diverging route, and GREEN is the straight through route (though i might have those MIGHT backwards)

[Anonymous]

Well, thanks to both of you. So I only need a SPDT switch if I'm just controling one turnout?
The Bachmann turnouts are a bit harder to wire because all the wires are green. They're like that because they're made with a socket attached so they just plug in to bachmann switch machines. But those are very unreliable so that's why I want the SPDT switches instead.

[NeO6874]

you MIGHT be ablt to get away with SPDT switches, althoguh you will need momentary on ones so you don't burn out the solenoids.
wiring would be the same i think still..

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I know I need momentaries. What concerns are there when using a (momentary) SPDT?

[fwright]

An SPDT (momentary) toggle switch or 2 push buttons (SPST, momentary, normally off) are all you need for twin coil switch machine control.

If you are using Atlas Snap relays (or similar) to operate lights or frog polarity, you simply wire the relay in parallel to the switch machine control using the same terminals on the toggle (assumes relays use same power supply as switch machines). Note the relay does not have to physically adjacent to your switch machine.

Also note you can have multiple toggles or push buttons at different locations to control the same switch machine. Totally optional, gives you the opportunity to have both local and central control panels.

Hope this helps.

yours in turning out
Fred W

[NZRMac]

I still think this is the best way.



The leds can be for signals or panel indicators, or just use the toggle switch for turnout indication. Only one CDU is needed for all the turnouts.

Ken.

[BR60103]

Skipeo:
the only concerns I have on momentary SPDT are that I never see any.
Feel free to use a momentary DPDT and waste the extra contacts. (You may not have a choice or they may turn out to be cheaper.)
My preference is push buttons or studs.

[NeO6874]

with the other ("wasted")contacts, couldn't he wire them to some form of a signal? say a searchlight with a 2 color LED in it (if that will fit the era of course)? though the light(s) could probably be placed next to the DPDT switch, one on each side of the throw, to show which way the turnout was last thrown...

[fwright]

The problem with controlling twin coil switch machines (Atlas, Peco, NJ, etc) and lights (LED, bulbs, etc) with the same toggle or push button switch is that the twin coil machines are momentary devices and lights are latching devices. Switch machines need a very brief shot of current to function, and are then turned off (momentary). Lights are turned on to stay on until a reason occurs to turn them off (latch). So no matter how many extra contacts there are on your toggle switch, you need another device to latch the desired lights "on" when the toggle is thrown.

Usually this was accomplished with a latching relay, contacts on the switch machine, or now can be done electronically as well. But logic circuit design is beyond most MRs, so relays or contacts implement the logic for us. The Atlas Snap relay is a great and easy-to-use example of a latching relay to be used where the switch machine doesn't have enough or any built-in contacts. It is a twin coil switch machine driving DPDT latching contacts. The included instruction sheet shows how to wire it up for lights and/or signaling. It can be wired up to the same power as your switch machine, and can therefore be operated from the same pole of your toggle as the switch machine. Other latching relays or latching circuits using different power sources would have to use the "extra" contacts on your toggle switch.

If your switch machine has extra contacts built-in, or you add contacts to the machine or throw mechanism, you can switch the indicating lights through those.

Hope this makes sense and helps.

yours in logic design
Fred W

[NeO6874]

[oops]

totally forgot about that when i was posting my reply... no more pre-breakfast posts for me...