Feeder Wire Solder Question

[KKEIFE]

OK, I have the wire tinned, the track cleaned, fluxed, and tinned and the wire lying along the outside edge of the track.

Now, to where do I apply the tip of the iron? Does it touch the wire, just the track next to the wire or what?

Also, where is the solder applied?


I have practiced soldering joiners together, but I'm unclear about how to do the feeders......obviously.

Thanks.

[Medina1128]

OK, it's time for soldering 101. If the track is not in place, yet, solder the wire to the underside of the rail joiner. If it IS in place, drill a small hole next to the outside of the rail, between a couple of ties. Bend the tinned wire so that the wire is against the rail, below the head of the rail in the web. Lay the tip ot your iron along the web just past the end of the wire. When the rail is hot, place the end of your piece of the solder on the wire, so that it touches the wire AND the rail. Let the solder flow TO the iron. Don't move the solder joint until the solder is completely cool, or you will have what is called a "cold or fractured" solder joint, meaning that it's not very strong or does not conduct properly.
DON'T LEAVE THE TIP ON THE RAIL TOO LONG, OR YOU'LL MELT THE TIES. I actually remove a couple of ties where the solder joint will be. It's easy to slide a couple of ties under the track after the joint has cooled.

[ARTHILL]

Medina1128 has it right. All I can add is that this is an art form and takes practice. You will melt a few ties and make a few crude joints but I learned it, anyone can. The bigger an iron you have the better it will stay hot and the faster the solder will melt. Speed is the key. Have fun.

[TomDiehl]

I have to disagree with Art on this one, too big of an iron will melt ties for you. A 40 watt iron is plenty for HO rail.

To clarify what Medina said, the iron will only be on the joint area for a second or two AT THE MOST.

[howmus]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

I have to disagree with Art on this one, too big of an iron will melt ties for you. A 40 watt iron is plenty for HO rail.

To clarify what Medina said, the iron will only be on the joint area for a second or two AT THE MOST.

I agree. Anything over 40 watts will trandfer too much almost instantly and will be more liable to melt ties. The trick is to make sure the iron is completely warmed up (ie: HOT) and has been tinned. Get in make the joint, and get out. Usually 2 seconds or less. BTW I prefer and use a 25 watt iron and have no problems joining the feeders to the track.

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ARTHILL

Medina1128 has it right. All I can add is that this is an art form and takes practice. You will melt a few ties and make a few crude joints but I learned it, anyone can. The bigger an iron you have the better it will stay hot and the faster the solder will melt. Speed is the key. Have fun.

Oh, NO, Art, you used the word that is your namesake!! Tsk, tsk. [:D]

[selector]

I use a 35 watt "pistol grip" type, and it is puh-lenty.

[Anonymous]

I use a 25 watt iron and it won't melt the solder. I apply the flux to the rail and the wire and hold the wire to the rail and then hold the solder down and nothing happens. I always have to touch the iron to the solder which makes an ugly joint. What am I doing wrong?

[Medina1128]

If the ambient air temperature is cold, this can affect your soldering, as well. If it's cold in the room, turn up the heat a little, or, just step up to the 40 watt iron. It's what I use. You could always try one of those mini torches that plumbers use... JUST KIDDING!!! DON'T DO IT!!!... Sheesh, you have to be careful what you say around the kids..

[TBat55]

An aluminum heat sink works better than other metal heat sinks (such as a copper battery clamp).

Radio Shack has a great one for HO rail soldering. It is flat (just enough to grab the rail) and packaged with a few soldering tools like a scraper and pick.

I use 0.032" rosin-core solder and a 40W iron with a chisel tip always dipped in cleaner before soldering.

[Anonymous]

Well, to each their own. I use a 100 w. iron or a pencil torch to do this job.

I've never found 25 or 40W to be enough - same problem as Johnny, it won't melt the solder properly with indirect heat through the material versus direct heat on the solder. Takes too long to heat the rail and, in my experience, time is what melts ties, not how hot the heat is...

[howmus]

OK, with a 25w Iron, you will need to place the iron right on the joint itself. I then touch the solder to both the rail and the iron. The solder will flow immediately to the joint. Done! Yes you will have a good joint. If you are putting enough heat on the rail to hold the iron on the track away from where you want the joint, you will melt ties. One of the reasons that I like the 25w Iron is that the area heated is small and is done without spreading the heat down the rail too much. Often I have enough solder on the iron itself to make the joint without adding solder. When the solder flows to the track, it is done.

Johnnny, you are probably using too much solder. It doesn't take much.

[mgruber]

Also, placing wet cottonballs on the rail on both sides of your weld will help keep the surronding area cool.

[Anonymous]

If you have trouble melting the solder, then you should try using a smaller thinner solder. There is also some low melting point solder available. (www.ngineering.com sells some. ) Thinner solder will melt faster and requires less heat.

[Anonymous]

I'm sure the method Howmus describes "works" - nobody would deny you can always melt the solder by touching it to the iron.

HOWEVER, I definitely DISagree that it will create a good joint. Using the tip of the iron to melt the solder is a Soldering 101 no-no for a reason... If the item you're soldering isn't hot enough to melt the solder itself (i.e. without touching the solder _to_ the iron tip) it's also not hot enough for the solder to properly bond. In other words, you will NOT get a reliable joint, either mechanically or especially electrically.

What I recommend is this (and this technique is size-of-iron neutral, by the way, I'd recommend this with any size iron - it just takes longer to melt the solder with smaller irons, and thus more chance of tie meltage, IMHO).:

1) touch the iron to the outside of the rail. In terms of position, think of it as having the tip right in the sideways "U" shape created by the top and bottom of the rail's profile. Do that right at the joint.

2) Hold the tip of your solder at the exact same location on the INside of the rail, exerting some slight pressure. That's easy to judge with the very thin solder we use - if it bends, you pushed to much. (remember, solder will flow TO the heat, so putting the solder on the inside is the best way to make sure you don't leave any solder there to interfere with wheel flanges).

3) The moment the rail right at the joint is hot enough, it will melt the solder. For me, using the 100W gun, I'd say that's about 5-ish seconds.

4) If you remove both solder and gun when that happens, the pressure you put on the solder and the built in momentary delay while you react will yield just about enough solder for a good joint, and you ensure the rail is heated for no longer than absolutely necessary.

Personally, in a worst-case-scenario, I'd rather have to replace a slightly melted tie than have a bad joint. But it's been a long time since I melted a tie - I melted MORE ties using a small iron.

I do find the pencil-torch is the best way to avoid meltage, since, at 3000 degrees or so you can literally have heat on the rail for mere seconds... Now, that ONLY works during initial construction - once the track is ballasted and any scenery in place, the torch is right out. I would suggest that you master doing it with an iron first anyway.

PS - I think someone else already said this, but it's worth repeating... Make sure the iron is fully hot BEFORE you start. Don't put the tip on the rail and then pull the trigger... Heating the iron on the track will definitely lead to melted ties. If you use a plug-in-type 'pencil' iron, make sure you let it get good and hot. The 25W iron I use for delicate work has a temperature indicator... It's hot enough to burn you after a few seconds, and hot enough to melt solder in under a minute... But if you watch the temperature gauge, you find it's not actually up to "full" temperature for a good 10 minutes!

[Anonymous]

OK lets throw more fuel here to increse the flames! The best solder joints occur when both items to be joined are heated enough to melt the solder and form a jouint between them. The size of the iron affects the time it takes to get the soldered items to temperature. The larger the iron the faster both items get to optimum temperature, and the faster you can remove heat from them to prevent melted ties down the whole length of the rail . You know you have accomplised the bond when the solder flows on both items and the joint remains shinny when the heat is removed and the joint begins to cool. This is an art that as you do some you will quickly acquire, and like riding a bicycle you will retain.
HTH
Will

[ARTHILL]

A big iron does not get hotter, it stays hotter. The purpose is to touch the iron to the track and transfer heat quickly. A small iron will cool down and have to reheat and that melts ties. A large iron will stay hot and transfer heat more quickly and you can remove the iron from the track more quickly.

[howmus]

Well, Just so you know. I worked for 2 summers for a telephone company soldering wires on a main telephone frame. I also work with pro sound, and have occasion to solder lots of stuff there. The electronics repairman at the Audio store where I send a lot of work, never does anything more than touch a well tinned 25w iron to connections, no other solder is added. Yes it is easy to end up with a "cold" solder joint. I guess I should have said I put the solder on the rail right where the iron is. You don't actually aim for the soldering iron. The transfer of heat to the rail with a lrge iron is more and can melt the ties because there is a lot more heat available at the same temp. I still stand by what I said and would be glad to show any of you the end result which is a good , shiney, solid joint whithout melted ties. The bottom line is: Do what works best for you.

Yes, as someone has said use very fine solder. It will help immensely. I use the fine stuff from Radidio Shack and it works very well for fine applications.

[KKEIFE]

Medina: If you solder the wire to the bottom of the rail joiner as you suggest (which is what I would like to do) how do you prevent the remelting of the joint when you solder the rail joiner to join two section of track?

[TomDiehl]

One thing needs to be clarified here, the reason for touching the solder directly to the tip. Two simple reasons: 1. If the solder melts instantly, the iron is near or at temperature to work. 2. A small "bubble" of melted solder on the tip of the iron will aid in the heat transfer (iron to workpiece) because of a larger contact area. Many times, that small bubble will be all the solder you need, as the joint gets hot enough, the solder flows into the joint from the iron tip. Source: the high reliability soldering course I took in the Air Force.

[emdgp92]

When I built my current layout, I used a large soldering gun. Overkill? Maybe, but since it warmed up quickly, adding feeder wires didn't take as long. I didn't have to wait for it to heat up again. One thing that I didn't see anyone mention, is that if you apply a little flux to the wire, the process goes quickly. A soldering gun can melt ties easily...however I found a way around that. Wet paper towels placed around the joint will take away some of the heat, while a pair of Vise-Grip pliers clamped to the rail will work also.