Help with Woodland Scenics 3% incline set... Doesn't match up!

[Anonymous]

Is it just me? I've searched and can't find any information on the subject but I am just returning to the hobby after a long absence. Actually I was never really serious about modelling a railroad so I am a NEWBIE.
Anyway, I saw the W/S incline set at the local hobby store.. thought it looked like a great way to easily add a grade to my layout. The box touts "fun", "Easy", "Fast", "Precise". So I bring it home, tack down the first piece that goes from 0 - 3/4", line up the second piece and there is an 1/8" difference between the two! The second piece starts out at 7/8". In N scale, that is a huge amount. What am I doing wrong. I know it's me because if I have to shape and shim each section, that is not easy, fast, fun, or anywhere close to "precise"! None of the sections seem to match up precisely, some vary more than others??? Please help!
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide...

-John

[Anonymous]

I haven't used the incline sets yet. I'm waiting for mine in the mail right now.

So please don't take this wrong but I hope it is you. [;)] Because when I get mine they better line up!

All I could offer in advice is to make sure you are lining them up correctly, and make sure the layout surface is level as well. (I'm sure you checked that already.)

Good luck and I hope someone has a real answer for you. (I wasn't much help, I know)

[Anonymous]

Yep! that's the stuff.
Thanks for the straight edge idea that was helpful.
But in this case it seems to be simple mathematics...
The final block of the 1st section measures 3/4", the first block of the 2nd section measures 7/8". To make it work with the straight edge it made about a 4 1/2" gap between the two pieces... what do I do w/ that? So I then calculated it out and it made sense: 4 1/2" rise in 144" (12') means .03125 rise per inch. To account for 1/8", that's 4". (if my math is right?)
I measured the final block of the 2nd section, it was 1 1/2" just as it should be. I measured the first block of the 3rd section, it was just under 1 5/8". It doesn't matter how much I stretch it, I still need 4" to cover a 1/8" change unless I change the grade, right?
Hopefully I'm just confused and someone can straighten me out???

Thanks again.
John

[Anonymous]

John,
I`m new to Railroading also, and have not used this product. But I was watching a TV show about model railroading the other day. Its called "Working On The Railroad" I believe. They were building a Woodland Scenic layout using these risers. They stated to make sure you had the right side on the bottom, That there IS deffinately a top and a bottom. Easy to put it on wrong. So ya might try flipping some of the pieces over to check if thats the case. Hope this helps some

Gregg

[DSchmitt]

I have used them and did not have any problem. I suspect that OhioGreg is correct. That was my first thought when I read the question.

[Anonymous]

I appreciate the input but flipping it over or having a top and a bottom still does not change the fact that there is physically 1/8" difference in thickness (or height) between the final block of one section and the first block of the next. Trying to match up a 3/4" block to a 7/8" block doesn't work, 1/8" is 1/8" no matter what side you measure it from. If you look at the diagram on the box it plainly shows what the sections are supposed to be:
1. 0 - 3/4"
2. 3/4" - 1 1/2"
3. 1 1/2" - 2 1/4"
4. 2 1/4" - 3"
5. 3" - 3 3/4"
6. 3 3/4" - 4 1/2"

My sections are:
1. 0 - 3/4"
2. 7/8" - 1 1/2"
3. 1 5/8" - 2 1/4"
... that's as far as I've measured.

They don't make any kits w/ 7/8" or 1 5/8" transitions so it appears to just be poor quality. I just can't believe (well actually I can) that I'm the only one to ever experience this. Maybe I just got a bad batch and should take it back and exchange it!

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

The first piece needs elevated ~1/8 to make it align with the track which is up on cork roadbed as a rule. The next piece fits flat to the layout. That's all I could ever figure out on the stuff. Fred

[Anonymous]

If you measured them and they are that far off I would say go back to the hobby shop you bought them at and get new ones. Either they can show you what you may be doing wrong, or give you new ones. From the measurements you've given it sure looks like Woodland Scenics messed up, not you.

I ordered mine online so I hope they measure right. I will surely check them now before using them. Good luck, and try to have fun anyway.


BTW Woodland Scenics sells 4% sets for $9.99, 1stplacehobbies.com sells them for $6.99. I haven't seen them at my LHS.

[steffd]

I had tried this product on my previous layout as a possible solution to creating some quick accurate grades. Wrong! I encountered the same problem and even went as far as contacting Woodland Scenics. All I got for my efforts was and apologetic letter. Not to discredit Woodland Scenics for coming out with innovative products or producing other high quality items and know that several modellers have used it successfully, I just personally don’t care for the product. I find it lacks in consistency, smoothness and requires you to glue your track down as it cannot hold spikes which is not necessarily a bad thing but I prefer a combination glue and spikes. Also, it’s a real pain to install switch machines beneath the turnout [tdn]. I just decided that for my requirements, I favour going back to the plywood cookie cutter method with wood risers for my elevated portions and grades as it provides a more rigid and smooth surface for my roadbed, signals and catenery and does not limit the grade percentages I can use. Needless to say, I have since demolished and started from scratch. You can see the pictures on my websits. [:)]

Stephan

[dgwinup]

If you get no satisfaction from either the hobby shop or WS, you can modify the pieces you have by simply cutting 1/8" of of each succeeding section. You could also shim up the shorter sections, but that would create a 1/4" height at the start of your grade that you would have to fill in with scrap foam or cardstock.

I use foam insulation board for layout construction. I can make custom grades by simply cutting the foam to the proper slope. I have also used thinner 1" foam and used the "cookie cutter" method of creating grades.

Hope you get this resolved.

Darrell, quiet...for now

[Anonymous]

Tukaram... thanks for the tip on First Place Hobbies, I was not aware of them. They have some pretty good prices on some stuff I was looking at. I was thinking about placing an order with InternetTrains.com for some flex track and cork roadbed but I am so hesitant with all of the horror stories I've heard about their service. Have you used First Place before? If so, did you have a good experience? I really try to support my local hobby shops but when you need 30 or more pieces of flex track and the local hobby shop wants $3.15 each vs. $1.29 each from an online source (InternetTrains), that's a tough pill to swallow.

Anyway, I did buy the Woodland Scenics incline set locally, it was $12.98 I believe.
I was thinking about doing what you suggested anyway Darrell. I have two options I guess... I was going to start about midpoint on the first section and do a gradual shim job (like 1/32" every couple inches) until the pieces matched up. I also used 1 1/2" Insulfoam over 1/2" plywood for my base so my other option was to shave the foam under the second section to get it to match up. Or, maybe a combination of the two... I'll probably just go with the shims, I don't think the extra incline will kill me. Either way, it will all work out. I was just moving along so smoothly until I got to this point. I was surprised when I searched the net, I found a lot of references to this stuff and no one mentioned this problem.

Oh well, if it was easy... anyone could do it! Oh wait... maybe they should be able to??? LOL.

Thanks for all the replies and input. This was my first post and I was impressed with the amount of responses so quickly... it's good to know help is near if I need it!

-John [:D]

[Anonymous]

John, I used the 2% grade material. Folks are correct - there IS a top and a bottom, also using a straightedge to make sure you are keeping the spacing uniform is important. But either the 3% is poorly made, or you got a bad sample. I had one section (forget which one it was) that was slighty off (nothing like 1/8th"); I was able to correct it by using my razor saw to cut off about half an inch off the end that was higher. Otherwise I was very pleased. Having used cookie cutter, I get a more perfectly uniform rise with this material and since I use stall switch motors, I have not had difficulty installing switch machines.

[germanium]

For a long-time absentee from the hobby (just returned) -
What IS a cookie cutter ???????

[SMassey]

I have used this product and had the exact same problem on one of my 2% grade pieces. what I did was placed the 2 offending pieces about 1/2 inch apart and then used a longboard with some 80 grit paper on it to make the edges match. it changed the grade slightly but it was better than having a (in my case with the straight edge) a 5" gap. after I layed the plaster cloth, roadbed and then track (this area is a double main) both tracks have the same grade to them.

There is a Top and bottom to these as well. If you look there will be a right angle (90degrees) at the bottom and an angle at the top. If you place the pieces upside down they will not line up as well. I hope you can get this problem fixed [:)] The only other problem I noticed with these is they are not always exatly the same. doing a double main around my layout made it so I would need two rows of the risers to fit 2 HO mainlines. Other than the one that didnt line up I had a 4% that was not 4% but more like 4.3% in one section. It seemed alright at the top and both sets of risers had the same angle at the start but the second piece down was a totally different angle. They both lined up to their mating piece and also to each other but one was a different angle here is a picture :



all and all I like the products and will prolly use them again on my next layout.

Mike

[selector]

As I understand it, cookie cutter means cutting out a section of masonite, foam, plywood, whatever, in the shape of a surface for the intended path of your roadbed, including grades. So, imagine a rising, sweeping curve that you intend to have your trains negotiate. You draw the outline of that section on a flat sheet of whatever, cut it out so that the edges are approximately 1/2" on either side of the roadbed, and use risers or some type of support to keep it in its intended attitude. The tricky part for grades is the top and bottom transitions from grade to level. If done over too short a distance, the longer locomotives will rock, or lift one or more axles, and you will lose traction.

[Anonymous]

Just for fun... here's a couple shots of my incline set. And yes, they are right-side up, I checked.




-John

[germanium]

QUOTE: Originally posted by selector

As I understand it, cookie cutter means cutting out a section of masonite, foam, plywood, whatever, in the shape of a surface for the intended path of your roadbed, including grades. So, imagine a rising, sweeping curve that you intend to have your trains negotiate. You draw the outline of that section on a flat sheet of whatever, cut it out so that the edges are approximately 1/2" on either side of the roadbed, and use risers or some type of support to keep it in its intended attitude. The tricky part for grades is the top and bottom transitions from grade to level. If done over too short a distance, the longer locomotives will rock, or lift one or more axles, and you will lose traction.

Thanks, Selector !! the jargon has probably changed from 40 years ago, apart from the translation from American to UK English (subtitles needed ???).

[Anonymous]

Hi folks
Another newbe with a simple question to verify. on my nScale plan I will have varying levels of track. Is the correct grade for the climbing sections between 2% - 4%.
thanks 19621993

[BR60103]

John: have you checked the final grade section? (I think that may be the other half of the first section) Does it measure up or off? or the middle bits?
I had an interesting problem with a long 2% grade. I used the starter segements and filled the height with 1/2" extruded foam. Except the foam turned out to be more like 9/16" and I had a bump betweem my segments and a bit steeper grade.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BR60103

John: have you checked the final grade section? (I think that may be the other half of the first section) Does it measure up or off? or the middle bits?
I had an interesting problem with a long 2% grade. I used the starter segements and filled the height with 1/2" extruded foam. Except the foam turned out to be more like 9/16" and I had a bump betweem my segments and a bit steeper grade.

I haven't checked the final section. I'm not going to go up the entire 4 1/2" on this grade so I'm not using it. I have checked the other sections only w/ a straight edge and they all seem to be pretty consistent in the grade, it's just the transitions from one section to the other are bad on all of them, some not as bad as others.

I've decided to make the most of it and turn a "negative" into a "positive"! I had intended on modeling a river into my layout anyway so by making a small modification to the location and direction of that river, I can use the discrepancy to my advantage. I can put in the 4" gap and maintain my grade! I roughly tacked it in place as shown below...
I didn't measure it for the picture so it probably isn't 4" there but it will be when I do it for real.



-John

[Anonymous]

That looks like a good solution for your problem. I got all my inclines in from 1stplacehobbies and luckily they were all the right height. I'm hoping to glue the foam down and start building up my supports for the plaster tomorrow.

And to answer your earlier question (sorry I lost this thread, they move off the pages quick) yes I have used 1stplacehobbies a bit. I have been very impressed with their prices and fast delivery. Not real thrilled with the sites search feature, it is a bit tough to find a particular item sometimes...but worth the time to find it.

[Anonymous]

the bridge between the foam sections is a great idea and should work out nicely.