noooooo, soldering

[Anonymous]

i started trying to solder some old atlas sectional track together, i lined them up, put solder on the track, and then toched the solder with the iron, and all i got was a blob of metal on my track, what am i doing wrong[:(]

[randyaj]

If it is old track, it probably needs to be cleaned. Take a small fairly soft wire brush(a brass wire works well) and make sure the rails shine. I usually use a small amount of rosin applied with a bru***o make sure I have a clean good connection. Then apply the tip of the soldering iron to the inside edge of the rails letting it heat the rail. After a moment touch the solder to the outside of the rail. When the rail is warm enough the solder will melt flowing into the rail joiner joint. I would leave several of the straight sections unsoldered, just crimp the rail joiners a little to make better contact. If all fails flex track works a whole lot better.[:P]
good luck
Randy

[cacole]

Not enough heat. You need a higher wattage iron because the rail is absorbing too much of the heat.

The correct soldering procedure is to touch the iron to the track and then touch the solder to the iron after the joint has had a chance to heat up a little. The way you're doing it is backwards and the heat is not being transferred to the rail.

[ARTHILL]

clean and flux is the key. I put a little solder on the end of a hot iron and the touch it to the outside of the fluxed rail and hold until it flows. If the iron is hot enough that only takes a few seconds. If it takes more you need a hotter iron.

[chateauricher]

What wattage of soldering iron should you have ? I saw a 30w and a 100w soldering irons and was wondering which one I should get.

[Anonymous]

it's not really old track, i just am using code 83 instead of the 100 sectional track someone gave me awhile ago, the sectional track is not what i'm using on my layout, i'm using 83 flex track on my layout, i'll have to try those methods of soldering, i really hope it's not the iron, cause i don't have the money for a new one, and i don't think i can return it

[Anonymous]

i'm using the cold heat soldering tool, can't find the wattage, but i know it heats up to 800F in 1 second

[grayfox1119]

The track acts like a heat sink, that is why you need a higher wattage soldering iron when soldering to a larger area of metal, not just tracks. Of course the track must be clean, the tip of the soldering iron needs to clean also and tinned. You can apply a small amount of flux to the area to be soldered, and this will cut 5 seconds off the time to flow solder.

[rolleiman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by prr67

i'm using the cold heat soldering tool, can't find the wattage, but i know it heats up to 800F in 1 second

That should be plenty for code 83 rail.. Make sure the rail is clean at the point where you want to solder, someone suggested a brass wire brush.. These can usually be found at discount tool stores for $1 or less or try the paint section in a hardare store / home center.. You can use rosin flux if you want to but your solder already has it inside and it'll be the first thing to flow when heat hits it. Clean your rails at the rail joint, touch the iron to the rail joiner and rails where the rails meet. Turn on the iron so it heats up and the local area around the tip will heat almost as fast.. Touch the solder to the joint and then slide the iron tip back and fourth along the rail joiner keeping it pressed against the rails to spread the solder. Then remove the heat and leave it alone. You don't want to move it while the solder cools. It doesn't take much solder and in fact if you do it right, you won't be able to see any solder at all.. Remember that the melted solder will be drawn To the heat and that you don't actually want the iron to melt the solder but you want the rail to melt it. It's kind of a fine balance of timing and skill because longer you leave the heat applied, the more likely you are to melt your plastic ties.. Take a piece of that sectional track and practice on it until you can make the solder flow where you want it to.. Better to sacrifice one piece as once you master this skill, you can solder just about anything..

Good luck,
Jeff
[8D]

[rrinker]

The absolute temperature really isn't the issue - withotu enoug power, the hat of the tip will quickly be absorbed by the metal and it will go below soldering temperature. And then low wattage trying to heat all that metal up will take a long time, allowing all the heat to spread everywhere, heating far more than just the joint area. That battery-operated 'cold heat' unit is not up to the task of soldering rack. A 60-75 watt iron would be much better. Keep the tip clean and tinned, and make sure the joint area is also cleaned. You should be able to go in,apply solder, and get out quickly before anything melts, except the solder.

--Randy

[dgwinup]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chateauricher

What wattage of soldering iron should you have ? I saw a 30w and a 100w soldering irons and was wondering which one I should get.

Here's a method I learned from my stained glass days: buy the 100w iron and the necessary parts to make a dimmer control. (Handy box & fittings, short lengths of 12-2 w/g stranded wire, male & female plugs and heavy-duty light dimmer switch & plate.) You now have a soldering iron that works from 0 to 100w.

Plug the iron into the dimmer control and turn it on. Adjust the dimmer switch to give you the correct amount of heat (this takes practice on spare parts - mark the switch face plate at different places depending on your practice pieces).

It might be cheaper to buy both the 30w and 100w irons, but then you will have only 2 heat settings. I needed the adjustable iron for stained glass depending on whether I used lead or copper foil for assembly.

Soldering is an art, but it is easily learned. Practice on spare parts until you get a feel for the heat required. Always clean the parts to be soldered and always use a flux, even if your solder has a flux core. Flux brushed on parts to be soldered helps clean the connection. Flux inside the solder helps the solder flow. You need both for the best joints.

I don't think the cold heat soldering tool is going to have enough power to solder track joints. Solder melts between about 300 and 600 degrees F, so 800 degrees should be enough. However, you need to heat the ends of both rails to get the solder to flow properly. I don't think the cold heat tool will get the rails hot enough for the solder to flow without melting some of the ties. The cold heat tool is excellent for tinning and soldering wires because the mass of the wire doesn't absorb as much heat as the mass of two rails.

With the correct heat range and a properly prepared joint (cleaned and fluxed), you should only need to touch the tip of your iron to the inside of the rails for a few seconds before solder will melt on the outside of the rails. Don't solder the inside of the rails unless you really like to file in tiny places!

It's like the old question of how do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, practice, practice. How do you get a good solder joint? Go north on Broadway (7th Ave) and turn right on 57th Street. No, wait. I reversed that! LOL

Darrell, directionally challenged, but quiet...for now

[Javern]

cold soldering or those instant cool solder tools I find is useless.

[Leon Silverman]

A good investment would be purchasing two metal track gages. Placing one on either side of the joint will insure that the track guage does not change if the soldering heat transmitted to the rails starts to melt the plastic ties.

[jrbernier]

i'm using the cold heat soldering tool, can't find the wattage, but i know it heats up to 800F in 1 second

Tra***he above tool - Basically useless......

Jim Bernier

[claycts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by prr67

i'm using the cold heat soldering tool, can't find the wattage, but i know it heats up to 800F in 1 second

As stated NO GOOD for rails, great for wire connections on PC boards and fixing SMALL electronis Items. Radio Shack sells a soldering ststion for about $39.95 does rails just fine.

[Stevert]

Here's how to get perfectly soldered rail joints without breaking the budget. I have yet to melt a tie using this method:

Go to Home depot (or wherever) and get a 25 watt pencil. Be sure it comes with a 1/8 inch chisel tip. Mine is a Weller model SP23L. Then go to Radio Shack (or wherever) and get the thinnest rosin core 60/40 solder they have. I have a big spool of .032 from RS, catalog number 64-009. You'll also need a clean, damp sponge or rag.

Let the pencil heat thoroughly, then wait another five minutes just to be sure. Clean that 1/8 inch tip on the damp sponge or rag, then **lightly** tin it. Do NOT get a big blob of solder on it!.

Hold the tip of the pencil on the INSIDE of the joint so that the end of the tip is against the joint between the rail joiner and the rail web, and the side of the tip is against the inside of the rail head. With my Weller this is about 30 degrees off the vertical.

Allow the joint to heat for a couple seconds, then apply a small amount of solder to the rail joiner/rail web joint on the OUTSIDE of the track. When you have a small amount of solder on the joint, remove the solder but continue to hold the pencil in place for another couple seconds. You'll see the solder actually wick *into* the joint and almost disappear. Remove the pencil and move onto the next joint.

If it takes more than a few (5 - 7) seconds total for the joint to heat and the solder to flow, you don't hve the tip in proper contact on the inside of the rail. Let the joint cool and try it again.

Be sure to clean and *lightly* tin the tip every few joints. This is crucial for good heat transfer. Like I said, I have yet to melt a tie using this method.

Stevert

[dgwinup]

Flux, you forgot the flux!

Flux will make your soldering easier and neater. Lightly clean the outside of the rail, apply a small amount of flux and follow Stevert's instructions and you will have perfect joints and unmelted ties!

Darrell, fluxingly quiet...for now

[Stevert]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dgwinup

Flux, you forgot the flux!

Darrell, fluxingly quiet...for now

I don't use a separate flux. I've found that the rosin-core solder has enough of a cleaning action that it's not needed, as long as your rails and track joiners are clean enough that trains will actually run on them.[:D]

Stevert

[Seamonster]

I've never used flux either. Like Stevert says, the flux in rosin-core solder is enough.

Just in case anyone is not sure what tinning is, and if you don't mind, Stevert, I'll explain it. It just means that when the tip is hot and clean, you briefly touch the solder to both sides of it so that it gets a thin coating of solder on it. You'll soon discover that a tinned tip transfers heat much better than an untinned one.

[robengland]

I don't use flux either. Some fluxes are pretty corrosive and you don't want to be leaving them there long term to corrode your rails.

I use a 30W pencil or an 80W bolt. Both work fine. Boy does that 80W rig get a fast joint, but sometimes a few plastic ties start melting so after a bit of practice i prefer the 30W pencil that i also use for most wiring and electronics.

Far and away the most important thing is a clean tip. Tin it with a bit of solder (melt some solder on when it is real hot so it is shiny). Now let me give you the #1 all time secret for easy soldering: HAVE A DAMP SPONGE HANDY AT ALL TIMES. If you wipe the iron in the sponge before you solder you should have a nice satisfactory hiss of steam to tell you it is hot enough and a nice shiny clean tip for good heat transfer. Don't sizzle away too long ,you'll cool the tip.

If you do this you can use crappy cheap soldering irons, you don't need extra flux, you won't melt many ties.

For decades I tried to solder without a wet sponge. Once I learned this tip everything changed. I haven't hurled a solder iron at the wall since [:D]

That's all you need, but my other five top factors in easy soldering are:
2) Good solder. If you buy two or three different brandsa and mixes of rosin-cored solder you will be amazed at the difference in performance. I'm not in the USA so I can't recommend a brand. Try a few, find the best one, and stick to it.
3) Clean metal. This one has been covered. I use a file not a brush. I wipe the bottom of the rail, which also takes any burrs off so the rail joiner goes on easy. Oh yeah, don't try to solder rails without a joiner on. The joint will be a weak point and give you a jog in the track. Then I file in the web of the track. Everywhere the joiner contacts it. Then I use a screwdriver or blade to scrape the inside of the rail joiner to ensure some bare metal, no matter how shiny the joiner is. I suspect good quality rail joiners solder easier too but I can't prove that. I use Peco.
4) wait until the iron is hot. If it doesn't hiss on the sponge and solder soesn't melt as soon as you touch it to the iron, go do something else until it will.
5) good technique. Also been covered. Just remember the rail has to be hot. A bit of solder on the tip of the iron assists heat trasfer. Position the tip so as much of its surface area is touching rail as possible. This means pointing the bolt straight down so the end of it is on the top of the rail is NOT good technique. Hold the iron at a low angle and snuggle it in to the side of the rail.
Then wait a second until the ties start complaining [;)], THEN apply the solder and watch it flow and get sucked into the rail joiner.
6) Wet tissues. Have two wet little balls of tissue. Put one an inch or so each side of where you are working, especially if working near points. This stops heat travelling too far down the rails if the job take s afew seconds longer than anticipated. If you are slick you shoudln't need them but...... Once the joint is made, blow on the solder until you see it lose its shine and harden. Then get a wet tissue on it to relieve the suffering of the ties.

Easy with a bit of practice. No flux. No fancy tools. Not too many melted ties.

[Billba]

In 40 years of soldering, I agree with the tips in this thread. They will give good results with a little practice.

A 50-100 watt pencil or a 75-150 watt gun can be used, again with practice. Weller and Ungar are good brands, although there are many others.

Keep a wet sponge or rag handy to clean the tip, and when tinning the tip use very little solder to tin the tip.

An additional suggestion, use a small metal clamp for a "heat sink" about a 1/2" or so away from the solder joint on each section of rail. That adds up to 4 clips at each section of rail if you are using flex or sectional track. Brass alligator clips flattened at the end, aluminum, or even small steel clips will work.

Don't cool the solder joint to fast, this will leave a cold solder joint. Cold solder joints are dull, and brittle.

You had a blob because the work (rail) wasn't clean or hot enough.

DO NOT use acid core solder. Use rosin core solder. Acid core solder is used by plumbers, and it will corrode brass or nickel-silver track. Get as fine a gauge of solder as you can find. You will not need to flux the joint.

Solder will not make a good mechanical joint, use rail joiners as suggested by others.

It is a good idea to "dress" the end of each rail with a small, fine file before soldering. Do this just before you solder so that the rail does not have time to oxidize.

Most important, make sure that you have good ventilation when soldering, and wear safety glasses. Solder can pop. Also, give everything time to cool down before touching it with your fingers. It may seem obvious, but every "professional" has gotten in a hurry at one time or other and "earned" a blister that they would rather not have had.

Good luck, hope this helps a little. Keep us posted.

[robengland]

I once idly picked a soldering bolt up by the wrong end while my mind was on something else. The groove in my hand has grown out now.

[Anonymous]

oww