Preventing "glowing" buildings

[Seamonster]

MisterBeasley: I'll e-mail you re the welding flasher. If anyone is interested in it, it was published in the Nov/Dec, 1996 issue of N-Scale magazine by Hundman Publishing.

[tommyr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Seamonster

Tom: That has been used for porch lights and other point light usages like marquee lights, automobile lights, etc. You hold the end of the fibre over the match flame, a small distance away to make it mushroom. I haven't tried playing around with fibre optics yet, but plan to some day--yet another thing to keep me from getting to running trains! It might work to reflect the light off something as the fibres do put out a fair bit of light. Can't help you on the frosted globes. Haven't heard about them. Do they just slip over a bulb? Sounds like a good thing.

Bob
No. They where just like a regular frosted light bulb only the size of a pea. I've tried many HS's & online with no luck. Car nuts use aproduct called VHT paint to paint their headers. Ithink this might work to coat GOW bulbs.
Tom

[topcopdoc]

One more final suggestion as if the others were not enough. Glue aluminum foil on the interior walls. It is cheap enough and stops all light from coming through. You then have the opton of painting it your desired color either dark or light. It also will enhances the amount of light provided by a small bulb if left unpainted. Let me know how it works out.
Doc

[tomikawaTT]

The ultimate light-blocker, in my experience, is aluminum foil, which can be used to form a rough set of interior partitions as well as wall and ceiling lining. It shapes easily (fingers only) and, if used as a ceiling lining, reflects the light back down into the structure.
One caution - if used too close to a high wattage bulb, aluminum foil will concentrate heat. I've been using the ultimate `el cheapo' bulbs - 2.5v christmas string lights powered from a 1.25v AC source, and haven't had any problems.

[Anonymous]

A tip I got from one of the guys at the local club is cheap, and quick, but a bit inelegant...

Line the building with aluminum foil. Blocks light from escaping through cracks, and intesifies light coming out the windows. Of course, this approach requires frosted windows/no interiors.

Andrew

[MisterBeasley]

Hey, Seamonster, any chance you could post the schematic for the welder simulator? I'm giving my roundhouse the full Martha Stewart decorator treatment, and I think a workbench with a couple of guys standing around welding would be a terrific addition.

Martha has been a big help on my layout. For the last few days, her book has been holding down the hydrocal castings while the silicone adhesive sets.

[Seamonster]

Mike: I've done some work with SMD LEDs too. Never considered them for structure lighting, but I'll have to look into that. I made a flashing yellow light on my N scale power company line truck since I built it in a working position at a pole. I epoxied the SMD to the top of the toolbox at the rear, relying on the paint to insulate it from the cast metal truck and ran a pair of magnet wire leads hidden inside the truck to a flasher under the layout. Looks neat. I can think of lots of uses for those tiny little things--caboose marker lights, signs, car turn signals. Too many things to try, not enough time.

I've got sequenced lights too, but I just used 555 timers to turn them on and off. I've got a welder simulator too, but it uses incandescent lights and 555 timers. Sounds like we both like playing around with electronics for our layouts. Now if I can just get away from the workbench and build my layout to the point where I can really run trains .................

[gemperfilm]

I have used flat black paint on the inside walls as well as black construction paper. I found the construction paper to be more to my liking. This is true when you make the construction paper a little be longer than the diagnol lenth of the building. The construction paper will curve and add a little depth when you look through the windows. You can also dulcote some of the window glazing as well.

[Anonymous]

I've also been playing around with LEDs for building lighting - with the goal of developing a small system for retail. I don't want this to sound like an ad - but mrr layout lighting is one of the things I sell at shows.

Here's my take so far. I prefer using LEDs because they rarely, if ever, burn out. That means far fewer replacement problems than with incandescent bulbs. I also install lights in cop cars and fire engines and those are permanent installs, so longevity is important.

The smaller Surface Mount LEDS (SMDs) are a far better choice to use for house lighting than the traditional T1 because they have much wider light dispersal due to their "top hat" shape - virtually 360 degrees. The trade off is soldering the wire. SMD's don't have metal leads, but small pads on the back. It's a bit daunting the first time, but once you master the technique, it's easy.

The typical white LED (T1) can be used, but only in a commercial/business setting to simulate flourescent lighting. Few homes have that kind of lighting. But even for flourescent lighting, I prefer using a frosted white SMD I've found that really looks like flourescent. Since they don't have that point intensity that T1s have, you don't need elaborate blocking. I put a couple in a service station and they look very nice.

For house lights, I've found that yellow SMD's at a reduced level using resistors come very close to the real thing. By varying the resistor , you can get different intensities from room to room. I've played with orange SMDs but they tend to look too red when compared with the yellows. Because the SMDs vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, you can also use different ones and end up with different color combinations. I'm playing around with this now.

Again, the reason the SMD's work so well is their light dispersal. Mounted in a ceiling, they disperse light thoughout the room.

The system I'm working on will provide a blend of "always on" lights with some that turn on and off. I'll use a programmable chip to control it.

I'll have one specifically for gas stations which will include a "welder" simulator for the garage bay, a couple of white SMDs for the flourescents in the office and bay areas, and maybe a random yellow that goes off and on for the bathrooms.

The house system will have 3 or 4 yellows, at least one or two that go off and on.

If anyone wants the specific specs on the SMDs I like, I can provide them. The yellows can be purchased in small quantities online, but the frosted whites require a purchase of 15 for around $20. Reasonable, but probably more than most folks need.

Mike Tennent

[Seamonster]

Tom: That has been used for porch lights and other point light usages like marquee lights, automobile lights, etc. You hold the end of the fibre over the match flame, a small distance away to make it mushroom. I haven't tried playing around with fibre optics yet, but plan to some day--yet another thing to keep me from getting to running trains! It might work to reflect the light off something as the fibres do put out a fair bit of light. Can't help you on the frosted globes. Haven't heard about them. Do they just slip over a bulb? Sounds like a good thing.

[MisterBeasley]

I've been playing with LED's to light the interior walls of my subways. They look good, but they are very directional and the light only shows up in a narrow cone from the front. So, I was going to try mounting one in the base of a building, and using a white interior ceiling as a reflector. Not sure how that will work, but I'll keep you posted. (Don't hold your breath. The subways are going well, but the surface is still pink foam.)

Welcome back from active duty, Dave, and thanks for doing your part. We all appreciate the sacrifices you guys make to keep our country the way it is.

[tommyr]

Bob
I read somewhere that if you heat the end of a fibre optic strand it will mushroom & form a bulb . This might work for a porch light. I am wondring if this method would also light a building? You would get light effect like a light bulb. I used to be able to buy frosted globes about the size of a pea. They where great for lighting as they gave a soft glow & did not shine through walls. I can't find them anywhere. I wonder if they still makethem . Anyone know?
Tom

[Seamonster]

TCF511: Glad you found it useful. That's what this forum is all about--people passing on tips because they've tried something and it's worked. I couldn't begin to tell you all the useful stuff I've picked up here. Further on the subject, I also put a "floor" in 2 story buildings and light rooms on each floor separately. But, when it gets that complicated, there's a lot of rooms that don't get lights because it becomes a jungle inside the building.

On some future buildings, I'm going to experiment with hanging bulbs from styrene rods fastened across at ceiling level, but that would mean removing a building to replace a burned out bulb. Being the cautious (paranoid?) type of person I am, I've made all my bulbs removable. I fasten the bulb to the end of a short wood or styrene rod which I insert into the building from under the layout. I position the bulb until its light looks just right then push a wedge into the hole to jam the rod in place. The bulb's wires go to a solder terminal strip. If I ever have to replace the bulb, I just need to remove the wedge, pull it down, cut off the wires, and reverse the procedure to install the new one. I checked how hot the bulbs got on 10 volts A.C. and after an hour, they felt barely above ambient temperture to the touch, so I'm not concerned with them burning anything inside the buildings.

Dave Kelly: I've never tried white LEDs for general lighting, but considering that LEDs are a point source light, and even the wide-angle diffused LEDs don't shine much out to the sides, and certainly nowhere near the 360 deg. illumination an incandescent bulb gives out, I don't think they would work too well for general interior illumination. However, I'm sure there's someone out there who has tried this and can give you better advice. You did give me an idea though. They should work well for my porch lights as that is a point of light. I'll have to try that sometime. And I would think that they would work well for those industrial lights in the big green shades that hang over doors. Hmmmm. More things to experiment with. I'll never get to run trains!!!!! [:(]

[West Coast S]

Make sure the DCC address on your P2K atomic bomb is properly set[bow]

Dave

[davekelly]

Has anyone tried lighting a building using white LED's? It seems to be that using LED's would allow several different light sources in each structure, the various intensities available would allow different levels of light and their long life would mean less maintenance.

Any thoughts?

[MisterBeasley]

QUOTE: [i]My pet peeve is seeing a building where the light source is obviously on the floor. Unless there's a seance in progress...

Mike Tennent

The light source is on the floor because the owner is underneath the benchwork doing wiring! [:)]

[tcf511]

Bob, I've posted several questions about lighting buildings recently and your last response was certainly one of the most useful. Thinking about partitioning interior rooms off, etc. is just common sense to experienced detailers but it isn't to all of us who are new. The info about the 12 volt bulbs at 10 volts was helpful too. Thanks!

[Seamonster]

Yes, definitely some rooms lit, some not, and some with dimmer light than others. In one of my houses, a bright light in the kitchen/living room area leaked into the bedroom area, showing dimmer through that window, which I felt was just the way it should be. I partition off the rooms with either black paper or styrene painted black. Some rooms get bulbs, some don't. Also, I put curtains or shades on almost all my windows. Brown kraft paper makes good window shades. White paper with horizontal pencil lines can pass for venitian blinds. I use 12 volt miniature bulbs operated on 10 volts A.C. from a transformer. They should last the life of the layout on the reduced voltage.

Here's something you might want to try. Just for an experiment, I added a porch light to one of the houses. I model in N scale, so I figured a scale-sized light fixture wouldn't even be visible, so I just drilled a very small hole through the wall where I wanted the light and put a dab of paint around the hole to represent the fixture. Then I mounted a 1.5 volt microbulb directly behind the hole, with an appropriate dropping resistor. It made a very convincing-looking porch light.

[Anonymous]

hazmat9 raises a very good point - rarely are all windows in a building lit. It's much more realistic to block off "rooms" inside with some lit, some unlit. Different rooms should also have different intensities of light/color.

My pet peeve is seeing a building where the light source is obviously on the floor. Unless there's a seance in progress...

Mike Tennent

[wjstix]

I don't think I have any lighted buildings that I haven't painted. I just use spray cans to spray primer gray inside and out (Tamiya is very good) then either use spray cans or airbru***o paint the outsides a different color. The gray looks OK for the interior, can always go back on the primered gray interior walls and brush paint on another color if I want to.

On brick buildings, I paint the outside gray, then paint the bricks with art markers an overall brownish red, then use a small bru***o paint some of the bricks different colors - dark tuscan, light tuscan, brown, etc. The gray looks pretty good as mortar.

[Anonymous]

I just make a tube of paper that sits over the light, like a lantern globe. Quick and easy. It cuts down the intensity of the light enough that it doesn't shine through the walls. Had buildings with these in em' for 10 years on the old layout, no heat problems (use common sense)

[pcarrell]

Your tracks don't run anywhere near 3 mile island do they? [:D]

I just use black paint on the insides of the buildings.

[HAZMAT9]

In addition to the tips above, I like to block out a few windows in structures such as apartment buildings by either painting over or covering with cardstock or something. I sometimes put slits in the cardstock to make it appear that a bit of light can escape through either blinds or drapes. This way you have random windows some dark, some with light. As well for cheaper structures that don't seem to match up perfectly at corners..etc (where light can escape) I seal these areas with a white silicone from the inside of the structure. Steve

[wrumbel]

I once had a white church that I put lights in. The whole building lit up like a christmas display, not what I had in mind. I found that if you paint the insides silver frist, then any color you like, the silver will block out the light. As mentioned eariler, make sure the corners are sealed or the silver paint will leak to the outside.

Wayne

[bogp40]

Egg crating and diffusers from styrene, cardboard or thin ply can also change the effect of the lighting. Remember to use a bulb of lower voltagage rating than the max supplied, and your bulbs will last a lifetime.
Bob K.

[Anonymous]

I usually use a basecoat of flat black on the inside and then cover that with another colored coat. Most of the interiors of my Railroad buildings are "peasoup greenish" (I think it is called Pullman green, not sure anymore) and the other building interiors vary, some are white, some yellow, some brown. Depends on how much interior you can see when the lights are on.

To me, it looks better than merely flat black. Many of my ceilings are gloss white or silver to reflect the light better.

[Seamonster]

I use black paint. Got to make sure it's applied evenly though, or spots will show through. I've found that one place where light will creep through is where walls join or roofs join to walls. If you don't have a perfectly tight joint light will leak out. And so will the black paint if you apply it after assembling the building. A filet of epoxy or a piece of square styrene or stripwood, painted black and glued into the corners will stop the light. The best thing is to paint the inside of the walls black before assembling the kit, but I don't always think of it in my hurry to get the kit assembled and see what it looks like.

I have a larger 12 volt bulb, the size of a flashlight bulb, mounted on a stick which I hold up inside the building after it's assembled and painted to check for light leaks. If light from THAT bulb doesn't get through, the light from the mini-bulbs sure won't.

[exPalaceDog]

QUOTE: Originally posted by canazar

Yup paint works, or you can also use dark construction paper as well if painting isnt an easy optiion..

Be sure that paper will not get too close to the light bulb and over heat.

Have fun

[canazar]

Yup paint works, or you can also use dark construction paper as well if painting isnt an easy optiion..


Personaly, I think the look of the CVR would be pretty cool... thats funny....

Good luck

John k