Watching Glue Dry is exciting!

[selector]

I read, early on in my time with MR forums (a whole four muntz alreddy!!) that LN for P takes quite a bit longer to dry than, say, Ohio Sealants PL200 and PL300. Many of the 'senior' modelers here use plain old white glue or carpenter's glue, but many also swear by silicone caulk.

I used PL300 in a warm, but relatively humid basement, and found it to be thoroughly set up in about five days. However, it no longer needed weights ,and was quite well bonded, in one day.

Jarrell, your basement or work area is probably humid. Also, if you use a lot of weights, your seal the area between the layers effectively, thus prolonging the drying time considerably. You might want to try leaving the weights off for several hours, not more than four or five, and then weighting the area for the next day or so. It might make a difference, assuming overall ambient humidity is not the real culprit.

[jacon12]

I let the first section alone with weight on it for about 4 or 5 days and took the weights off today. It 'seems' to be ok. I used the Liquid Nails for Projects and (in smaller letters foamboard. I believe it said on the tube that it worked for insulation. By that, I think they meant foamboard insulation. I'll leave this part alone about the same amount of time and then start laying track. Wish me luck!
Jarrell

[bogp40]

MisterBeasley,
Try using the tile adhesive for those castings. I made no mention of Liquid Nail for that use.
Maybe the "origional" orange/red label would do the job.
Bob K.

[MisterBeasley]

I've got a frame only, with the rafters made of 1x3's, spaced at 16 inches. There is no plywood, so the foam is glued directly to the rafters. For the higher elevations, I built T-trestle supports from 1x2's and then glued the foam to those.

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley
When I glued down my 2-inch pink foam to the benchwork rafters, I kept the weights on overnight. Then I moved the weights elsewhere and started doing trackwork. At some point, I realized I'd made a mistake and had to take some of the foam off.

Mr Beasley,

Did you use a plywood deck over the benchwork rafters ? Or did you just glue the foam directly to the rafters ?

[MisterBeasley]

Hmmm - my label says Liquid nails for Projects and (in little letters) Construction. No mention of foamboard, although it works for that. Contrary to the experience of my fellow Massachusettsian Mr. Knapp above, I couldn't get this stuff to stick to my Hydrocal castings, even when I globbed it on with a gravy ladle worthy of the first Thanksgiving. For that job, thanks to another post on yet another topic, I'm using silicone, which is working just fine. (Ask again in 12 months after a year of climate.)

Boy, this has become a sticky subject. Some of us are set in our ways, and others are just coming completely unglued.

[bogp40]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley

The Voice of Experience:

When I glued down my 2-inch pink foam to the benchwork rafters, I kept the weights on overnight. Then I moved the weights elsewhere and started doing trackwork. At some point, I realized I'd made a mistake and had to take some of the foam off.

Dude, it didn't come off. I had to cut it. Liquid Nails for Projects stays put after a few hours. The curing time they're referring to is probably for building skyscrapers, and even then, it's for legal reasons.

So, next December, buy your wife a pile of cookbooks. She'll love them. If they get used, yummy! If not, you've got your weights. Life is good.

The liquid nail dried overnight because of the open joists. Trapped glue between plywood and foam takes considerably longer. I have pulled apart foam scenery layers that were 2 weeks old, and some interior beads of glue scraped off with a putty knife. This is when I started to use ceramic tile cement spread w/ a notched trowel. The air trapped in the joint allows for drying and also makes a suction for initial tack and hold. This glue is cheap easy to use, also will work to bond plaster castings to foam, wood or to itself. If you still want to use liquid nail and want to speed drying, spread it out w/ a notched trowel works the same by trapping air.
Bob K.

[JohnT14808]

Hmmm. I'll have to remember this one. I had read that Liquid Nails was okay for most applications, but perhaps I mis-read the article. I may have to snitch my son's Elmer's for the next project......

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

Well the label says Liquid Nails for Projects and Foamboard. The other stuff has much higher petroleum distillate content and from all reports hsould not be used with foam.
I put it on with a good-size bead as recommended on the tube. It stuck to the wood real good, but barely to the foam. So I have a couple pieces of wood that i MIGHT be able to chisel the adhesive off, but it's not worth the trouble. And two pieces of foam I reused - there were a couple of thick spots but I was able to knock those right off so the reused pieces of foam would sit flat on my new benchwork.
I know the MR construction articles recommend that PL something or other. But I've never seen that brand in the local stores.
The non foam-safe Liquid Nails was used for some aluminum trim around the outside of the house and it holds on just fine, sheet aluminum to wood.

--Randy

Thanks Randy. I don't have it here in front of me right now but it does say foam, in smaller letters, on the tube. Sorry to hear it didn't stick!
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

When I built my test 4x8, I used Liquid Nails for Foamboard. I weighted it with stacks of MR for 2 days, and then didn't put any pressure on it (in a direction to break the bond) for a long time. It STILL didn't adhere worth a darn. In fact the two 2x8 pieces of foam got reused on the 8x12 portion of the layout - the Liquid Nails came off cleanly! I won't touch the stuff. I have an unopened tube - anyone want it? When I built the 8x12 I used Elmers Carpenter's glue. That stuff set up in 24 hours, and I can lift the layout by pushing up on the foam in between the wood framework and the foam doesn't come loose from the wood.

I wouldn't take those books off for at LEAST a week. Gives you time to work on a track plan. [:D]

--Randy

LN for Foamboard? I didn't see that at Homer D. Pot. I got the LN for Projects.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by KKEIFE

Jarrell:

Just a note. I also used WS risers to elevate my track at a 2% grade. I used Aileens tacky glue to glue it down and glue the risers to inclines. It is available at Wal-Mart and is very inexpensive. It dried fast and seems to hold well so far.

I have seen a number of people on this and other forums recommend it.

Kkeife, thanks for the reminder on the Tacky glue. I plan to use WS risers also!
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by EMT49

what do you mean you have no weight glue down the foam get a blanket and pillow and use your weight (lol)

Lets see... the approximate height of the benches is 42 inches from the hard tile floor. I'm 61 and getting more brittle by the day. Hmmm... 42 times the hypotenuse squared (my head) = ride in ambulance.
Nay, thanks anyway[8D]
Jarrell

[rrinker]

Well the label says Liquid Nails for Projects and Foamboard. The other stuff has much higher petroleum distillate content and from all reports hsould not be used with foam.
I put it on with a good-size bead as recommended on the tube. It stuck to the wood real good, but barely to the foam. So I have a couple pieces of wood that i MIGHT be able to chisel the adhesive off, but it's not worth the trouble. And two pieces of foam I reused - there were a couple of thick spots but I was able to knock those right off so the reused pieces of foam would sit flat on my new benchwork.
I know the MR construction articles recommend that PL something or other. But I've never seen that brand in the local stores.
The non foam-safe Liquid Nails was used for some aluminum trim around the outside of the house and it holds on just fine, sheet aluminum to wood.

--Randy

[MisterBeasley]

I'm using Liquid Nails for PROJECTS, not Liquid Nails for FOAMBOARD. Randy, when yours didn't adhere, did the stuff "come unglued" from both the foam and the wood, or did it stick to one and not the other? Also, I'm using 2-inch pink extruded foam, and pine benchwork. I'm curious about what the difference is. It sounds like the combination of foam, wood and adhesive is much more complicated than I thought.

Also, I spread mine on pretty thick, like I sometimes do when posting on this forum. [:o)] Did you use a thick or thin layer of LN for F?

[KKEIFE]

Jarrell:

Just a note. I also used WS risers to elevate my track at a 2% grade. I used Aileens tacky glue to glue it down and glue the risers to inclines. It is available at Wal-Mart and is very inexpensive. It dried fast and seems to hold well so far.

I have seen a number of people on this and other forums recommend it.

[Anonymous]

what do you mean you have no weight glue down the foam get a blanket and pillow and use your weight (lol)

[rrinker]

When I built my test 4x8, I used Liquid Nails for Foamboard. I weighted it with stacks of MR for 2 days, and then didn't put any pressure on it (in a direction to break the bond) for a long time. It STILL didn't adhere worth a darn. In fact the two 2x8 pieces of foam got reused on the 8x12 portion of the layout - the Liquid Nails came off cleanly! I won't touch the stuff. I have an unopened tube - anyone want it? When I built the 8x12 I used Elmers Carpenter's glue. That stuff set up in 24 hours, and I can lift the layout by pushing up on the foam in between the wood framework and the foam doesn't come loose from the wood.

I wouldn't take those books off for at LEAST a week. Gives you time to work on a track plan. [:D]

--Randy

[jacon12]

I'm probably not going to get to work on it tomorrow, but Saturaday the books are coming up and moved down to the next section. I tend to think Mr. Beasley is right. If I were hanging the stuff from the ceiling I might want to leave it 7 days.
I'm ready to move on now and start putting kinks in track. I'll be good at that!
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by egmurphy

I left mine overnight and it was fine. The one difference between my way of doing it and yours was that instead of weighing it down with books, I used a bunch of my old Model Railroader Magazines that I had laying around!!! [:D]

QUOTE: So, don't use the yellow Elmers Carpenter glue?

Carpenter's glue is fine. I actually used that to glue my cork roadbed to the foam.


Could you try to mess up your place before taking the next photos? You're giving the rest of us a complex. [swg]

"Could you try to mess up your place before taking the next photos? You're giving the rest of us a complex."

If I turned the camera around 180 degrees you guys would feel pretty good![*^_^*]
I'll do that sometime.
Jarrell




Regards

Ed


[swg]

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

More books on the way [:D]

Okiedokie, thanks Chip.
Jarrell

[egmurphy]

I left mine overnight and it was fine. The one difference between my way of doing it and yours was that instead of weighing it down with books, I used a bunch of my old Model Railroader Magazines that I had laying around!!! [:D]

QUOTE: So, don't use the yellow Elmers Carpenter glue?

Carpenter's glue is fine. I actually used that to glue my cork roadbed to the foam.


Could you try to mess up your place before taking the next photos? You're giving the rest of us a complex. [swg]



Regards

Ed


[swg]

[SpaceMouse]

More books on the way [:D]

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley

The Voice of Experience:

When I glued down my 2-inch pink foam to the benchwork rafters, I kept the weights on overnight. Then I moved the weights elsewhere and started doing trackwork. At some point, I realized I'd made a mistake and had to take some of the foam off.

Dude, it didn't come off. I had to cut it. Liquid Nails for Projects stays put after a few hours. The curing time they're referring to is probably for building skyscrapers, and even then, it's for legal reasons.

So, next December, buy your wife a pile of cookbooks. She'll love them. If they get used, yummy! If not, you've got your weights. Life is good.

Mr. Beasley, I had thought about taking a couple of small pieces of foam... oh .. a couple of inches square maybe.. and glueing them together with LN, weight them down and see what happened overnight.
Thanks for your input. I need those books to move on down the benchwork, I ran out![^]
Jarrell

[MisterBeasley]

The Voice of Experience:

When I glued down my 2-inch pink foam to the benchwork rafters, I kept the weights on overnight. Then I moved the weights elsewhere and started doing trackwork. At some point, I realized I'd made a mistake and had to take some of the foam off.

Dude, it didn't come off. I had to cut it. Liquid Nails for Projects stays put after a few hours. The curing time they're referring to is probably for building skyscrapers, and even then, it's for legal reasons.

So, next December, buy your wife a pile of cookbooks. She'll love them. If they get used, yummy! If not, you've got your weights. Life is good.

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

Jarrell,

Wood glue's completely safe for foam, as are any of the non-solvent types of glues. Latex and silicone caulk are great too (the difference is that you can remove stuff glued down with the latex caulk!). I personally prefer wood & white glues and both types of caulk over Liquid Nails, because they're less expensive, available in greater quantity, and more readily available.

So, don't use the yellow Elmers Carpenter glue?
Jarrell

[orsonroy]

Jarrell,

Wood glue's completely safe for foam, as are any of the non-solvent types of glues. Latex and silicone caulk are great too (the difference is that you can remove stuff glued down with the latex caulk!). I personally prefer wood & white glues and both types of caulk over Liquid Nails, because they're less expensive, available in greater quantity, and more readily available.

[jacon12]

Uh oh... I did a google search 'liquid nails drying time' and darned if I didn't get a FAQ page from the company. The very first entry was:
"What is the dry time for Liquid Nails adhesives?
We recommend bracing the application overnight. The adhesive will reach its maximum strength within 7 days. Actual dry time may vary with temperature, humidity and substrates."
Dangit, dangit!
And some of you used carpenters glue and other things? Is that safe for foam?
Oh well, "God, grant me patience, but hurry!"
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ukguy

I think I've read somewhere on here it can take upto 24-48 hours to dry all the way, this was because the glue couldnt 'breathe' between the foam and as its basically airtight in there the glue doesnt dry too quick. Dont take my word for it though.

I would advise not to keep prying it appart to 'check' though as this will weaken the bond although I know its not going to need to be that strong anyway.

I remember an old bumper sticker ...... "God give me patience.......BUT HURRY !!!"

Have fun & be safe.
Karl.

Karl, I'm going to go with the 48 hour time before taking any weight off. That sounds long enough.
Thanks, and hey... you're sure can model realistically!
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by KKEIFE

I don't know about LN, but I used wood glue and it dried overnight and seems to have a strong bond.

Hope it holds up.

BTW, your posts have been entertaining. You and I are at about the same point in the building process.


Ken

Thanks Ken. Hopefully you're a LOT more experienced at this than I am and things will go smoothly for you. I'm not thus all the questions I ask here all the time. I'm sure glad most all the people here have a good sense of humor!
Jarrell