Watching Glue Dry is exciting!

[jacon12]

Not!
How long does it take Liquid Nails for projects sandwiched between extruded foam and plywood to dry (bond) anyway? With books piled on top and in an airconditioned space.
Jarrell

[ukguy]

I think I've read somewhere on here it can take upto 24-48 hours to dry all the way, this was because the glue couldnt 'breathe' between the foam and as its basically airtight in there the glue doesnt dry too quick. Dont take my word for it though.

I would advise not to keep prying it appart to 'check' though as this will weaken the bond although I know its not going to need to be that strong anyway.

I remember an old bumper sticker ...... "God give me patience.......BUT HURRY !!!"

Have fun & be safe.
Karl.

[tstage]

Jarrell,

I've heard as long as a week or more - but that may have been under less than optimal conditions. Sounds like your surroundings are better than most...

Tom

[orsonroy]

Since foam doesn't "breathe" like most natural materials (wood, homasote, etc) it can take quite a while. The longest time I've had to wait for LN or wood glue to dry was two weeks! That's one reason I've switched to silicone caulk for gluing foam to foam and foam to wood: it only takes 1-2 days to fully cure and offgas.

[MisterBeasley]

There's a long time between "stuck down so it's not going anywhere," which is only a few hours, and "rock solid." I take all my wife's cookbooks off the table at the first point, and then I'm quite happy to lay track.

[KKEIFE]

I don't know about LN, but I used wood glue and it dried overnight and seems to have a strong bond.

Hope it holds up.

BTW, your posts have been entertaining. You and I are at about the same point in the building process.


Ken

[Anonymous]

Jarrell -

I used Elmers carpenters glue, and it seemed to dry pretty quick (overnight) between the foam and OSB base I had... But between the foam and the WS Roadbed I used, I could peel that stuff up for almost a week after laying it down without ripping anything...

How long have you had the foam glued down? Is it still
"sliding" on the plywood?

[jacon12]

Thanks everybody. I glued the first couple of pieces down about 24 hours ago and weighed it down..

I knew those books would come in handy for something one day! But, I ran out of them and have held off glueing the last 3 sections down til I can find something to use for weights.
Hmmmm.... must be something around here..
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by KKEIFE

I don't know about LN, but I used wood glue and it dried overnight and seems to have a strong bond.

Hope it holds up.

BTW, your posts have been entertaining. You and I are at about the same point in the building process.


Ken

Thanks Ken. Hopefully you're a LOT more experienced at this than I am and things will go smoothly for you. I'm not thus all the questions I ask here all the time. I'm sure glad most all the people here have a good sense of humor!
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ukguy

I think I've read somewhere on here it can take upto 24-48 hours to dry all the way, this was because the glue couldnt 'breathe' between the foam and as its basically airtight in there the glue doesnt dry too quick. Dont take my word for it though.

I would advise not to keep prying it appart to 'check' though as this will weaken the bond although I know its not going to need to be that strong anyway.

I remember an old bumper sticker ...... "God give me patience.......BUT HURRY !!!"

Have fun & be safe.
Karl.

Karl, I'm going to go with the 48 hour time before taking any weight off. That sounds long enough.
Thanks, and hey... you're sure can model realistically!
Jarrell

[jacon12]

Uh oh... I did a google search 'liquid nails drying time' and darned if I didn't get a FAQ page from the company. The very first entry was:
"What is the dry time for Liquid Nails adhesives?
We recommend bracing the application overnight. The adhesive will reach its maximum strength within 7 days. Actual dry time may vary with temperature, humidity and substrates."
Dangit, dangit!
And some of you used carpenters glue and other things? Is that safe for foam?
Oh well, "God, grant me patience, but hurry!"
Jarrell

[orsonroy]

Jarrell,

Wood glue's completely safe for foam, as are any of the non-solvent types of glues. Latex and silicone caulk are great too (the difference is that you can remove stuff glued down with the latex caulk!). I personally prefer wood & white glues and both types of caulk over Liquid Nails, because they're less expensive, available in greater quantity, and more readily available.

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy

Jarrell,

Wood glue's completely safe for foam, as are any of the non-solvent types of glues. Latex and silicone caulk are great too (the difference is that you can remove stuff glued down with the latex caulk!). I personally prefer wood & white glues and both types of caulk over Liquid Nails, because they're less expensive, available in greater quantity, and more readily available.

So, don't use the yellow Elmers Carpenter glue?
Jarrell

[MisterBeasley]

The Voice of Experience:

When I glued down my 2-inch pink foam to the benchwork rafters, I kept the weights on overnight. Then I moved the weights elsewhere and started doing trackwork. At some point, I realized I'd made a mistake and had to take some of the foam off.

Dude, it didn't come off. I had to cut it. Liquid Nails for Projects stays put after a few hours. The curing time they're referring to is probably for building skyscrapers, and even then, it's for legal reasons.

So, next December, buy your wife a pile of cookbooks. She'll love them. If they get used, yummy! If not, you've got your weights. Life is good.

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MisterBeasley

The Voice of Experience:

When I glued down my 2-inch pink foam to the benchwork rafters, I kept the weights on overnight. Then I moved the weights elsewhere and started doing trackwork. At some point, I realized I'd made a mistake and had to take some of the foam off.

Dude, it didn't come off. I had to cut it. Liquid Nails for Projects stays put after a few hours. The curing time they're referring to is probably for building skyscrapers, and even then, it's for legal reasons.

So, next December, buy your wife a pile of cookbooks. She'll love them. If they get used, yummy! If not, you've got your weights. Life is good.

Mr. Beasley, I had thought about taking a couple of small pieces of foam... oh .. a couple of inches square maybe.. and glueing them together with LN, weight them down and see what happened overnight.
Thanks for your input. I need those books to move on down the benchwork, I ran out![^]
Jarrell

[SpaceMouse]

More books on the way [:D]

[egmurphy]

I left mine overnight and it was fine. The one difference between my way of doing it and yours was that instead of weighing it down with books, I used a bunch of my old Model Railroader Magazines that I had laying around!!! [:D]

QUOTE: So, don't use the yellow Elmers Carpenter glue?

Carpenter's glue is fine. I actually used that to glue my cork roadbed to the foam.


Could you try to mess up your place before taking the next photos? You're giving the rest of us a complex. [swg]



Regards

Ed


[swg]

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

More books on the way [:D]

Okiedokie, thanks Chip.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by egmurphy

I left mine overnight and it was fine. The one difference between my way of doing it and yours was that instead of weighing it down with books, I used a bunch of my old Model Railroader Magazines that I had laying around!!! [:D]

QUOTE: So, don't use the yellow Elmers Carpenter glue?

Carpenter's glue is fine. I actually used that to glue my cork roadbed to the foam.


Could you try to mess up your place before taking the next photos? You're giving the rest of us a complex. [swg]

"Could you try to mess up your place before taking the next photos? You're giving the rest of us a complex."

If I turned the camera around 180 degrees you guys would feel pretty good![*^_^*]
I'll do that sometime.
Jarrell




Regards

Ed


[swg]

[jacon12]

I'm probably not going to get to work on it tomorrow, but Saturaday the books are coming up and moved down to the next section. I tend to think Mr. Beasley is right. If I were hanging the stuff from the ceiling I might want to leave it 7 days.
I'm ready to move on now and start putting kinks in track. I'll be good at that!
Jarrell

[rrinker]

When I built my test 4x8, I used Liquid Nails for Foamboard. I weighted it with stacks of MR for 2 days, and then didn't put any pressure on it (in a direction to break the bond) for a long time. It STILL didn't adhere worth a darn. In fact the two 2x8 pieces of foam got reused on the 8x12 portion of the layout - the Liquid Nails came off cleanly! I won't touch the stuff. I have an unopened tube - anyone want it? When I built the 8x12 I used Elmers Carpenter's glue. That stuff set up in 24 hours, and I can lift the layout by pushing up on the foam in between the wood framework and the foam doesn't come loose from the wood.

I wouldn't take those books off for at LEAST a week. Gives you time to work on a track plan. [:D]

--Randy

[Anonymous]

what do you mean you have no weight glue down the foam get a blanket and pillow and use your weight (lol)

[KKEIFE]

Jarrell:

Just a note. I also used WS risers to elevate my track at a 2% grade. I used Aileens tacky glue to glue it down and glue the risers to inclines. It is available at Wal-Mart and is very inexpensive. It dried fast and seems to hold well so far.

I have seen a number of people on this and other forums recommend it.

[MisterBeasley]

I'm using Liquid Nails for PROJECTS, not Liquid Nails for FOAMBOARD. Randy, when yours didn't adhere, did the stuff "come unglued" from both the foam and the wood, or did it stick to one and not the other? Also, I'm using 2-inch pink extruded foam, and pine benchwork. I'm curious about what the difference is. It sounds like the combination of foam, wood and adhesive is much more complicated than I thought.

Also, I spread mine on pretty thick, like I sometimes do when posting on this forum. [:o)] Did you use a thick or thin layer of LN for F?

[rrinker]

Well the label says Liquid Nails for Projects and Foamboard. The other stuff has much higher petroleum distillate content and from all reports hsould not be used with foam.
I put it on with a good-size bead as recommended on the tube. It stuck to the wood real good, but barely to the foam. So I have a couple pieces of wood that i MIGHT be able to chisel the adhesive off, but it's not worth the trouble. And two pieces of foam I reused - there were a couple of thick spots but I was able to knock those right off so the reused pieces of foam would sit flat on my new benchwork.
I know the MR construction articles recommend that PL something or other. But I've never seen that brand in the local stores.
The non foam-safe Liquid Nails was used for some aluminum trim around the outside of the house and it holds on just fine, sheet aluminum to wood.

--Randy

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by EMT49

what do you mean you have no weight glue down the foam get a blanket and pillow and use your weight (lol)

Lets see... the approximate height of the benches is 42 inches from the hard tile floor. I'm 61 and getting more brittle by the day. Hmmm... 42 times the hypotenuse squared (my head) = ride in ambulance.
Nay, thanks anyway[8D]
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by KKEIFE

Jarrell:

Just a note. I also used WS risers to elevate my track at a 2% grade. I used Aileens tacky glue to glue it down and glue the risers to inclines. It is available at Wal-Mart and is very inexpensive. It dried fast and seems to hold well so far.

I have seen a number of people on this and other forums recommend it.

Kkeife, thanks for the reminder on the Tacky glue. I plan to use WS risers also!
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

When I built my test 4x8, I used Liquid Nails for Foamboard. I weighted it with stacks of MR for 2 days, and then didn't put any pressure on it (in a direction to break the bond) for a long time. It STILL didn't adhere worth a darn. In fact the two 2x8 pieces of foam got reused on the 8x12 portion of the layout - the Liquid Nails came off cleanly! I won't touch the stuff. I have an unopened tube - anyone want it? When I built the 8x12 I used Elmers Carpenter's glue. That stuff set up in 24 hours, and I can lift the layout by pushing up on the foam in between the wood framework and the foam doesn't come loose from the wood.

I wouldn't take those books off for at LEAST a week. Gives you time to work on a track plan. [:D]

--Randy

LN for Foamboard? I didn't see that at Homer D. Pot. I got the LN for Projects.
Jarrell

[jacon12]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

Well the label says Liquid Nails for Projects and Foamboard. The other stuff has much higher petroleum distillate content and from all reports hsould not be used with foam.
I put it on with a good-size bead as recommended on the tube. It stuck to the wood real good, but barely to the foam. So I have a couple pieces of wood that i MIGHT be able to chisel the adhesive off, but it's not worth the trouble. And two pieces of foam I reused - there were a couple of thick spots but I was able to knock those right off so the reused pieces of foam would sit flat on my new benchwork.
I know the MR construction articles recommend that PL something or other. But I've never seen that brand in the local stores.
The non foam-safe Liquid Nails was used for some aluminum trim around the outside of the house and it holds on just fine, sheet aluminum to wood.

--Randy

Thanks Randy. I don't have it here in front of me right now but it does say foam, in smaller letters, on the tube. Sorry to hear it didn't stick!
Jarrell

[JohnT14808]

Hmmm. I'll have to remember this one. I had read that Liquid Nails was okay for most applications, but perhaps I mis-read the article. I may have to snitch my son's Elmer's for the next project......