Street Running Track

[HAZMAT9]

I finished design on a small city scene on my HO layout and was wondering what track to use for street running (Code 70...?) which expands into a small switching area on the backside of the city. I'm going to be using Code 83 for the mainlines with a #4 turnout from the mainline to the city. Due to costs and current plans, I'm using Atlas flextrack and switches. Any suggestions on what to use through the city and switching areas in Atlas......or am I limited to Code 83 all the way? Trying to avoid mixing track brands for smoother transitions, though I'm game if something will work w/o a lot of headaches. Thanks, Steve [:D]

[ndbprr]

If you are running true street trackage only the top of the rails will be visible so I would go with code 100 in HO - the cheapest and strongest of the choices. Traction fans for years have added the inside guard by turning a rail on its side and butting the head against the running rail. then you can use the bottom of the base to hold your paving material.

[HAZMAT9]

I would have thought a smaller rail would be more to scale especially on the streets since it would tend to blend in more with pavement/road cover. Your idea on the inside guard seems pretty good. I guess I'm confused or haven't seen many MRing pics on street running. It seems that you would almost use the rails minus the ties for street running...is this it or are the ties covered with road material to hide the ties?

[Bikerdad]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HAZMAT9

I would have thought a smaller rail would be more to scale especially on the streets since it would tend to blend in more with pavement/road cover. Your idea on the inside guard seems pretty good. I guess I'm confused or haven't seen many MRing pics on street running. It seems that you would almost use the rails minus the ties for street running...is this it or are the ties covered with road material to hide the ties?

Bingo, cover the ties. Think of the track in the street as a realllllllllllllllllly big grade crossing. [;)] By using Code 100, you get the least expensive track and no handlaying hassles. The only thing you have to make sure to do is keep the elevation between the streets and surrounding terrain right. You can either "sink" the track or build up the street.

[West Coast S]

Spike the code 100 directly onto your roadbed material , Guardrails can be done as noted above or you can use a wheel set with deep flanges and a X Acto knife to make a impression for the flange clearance as the plaster begins to firm up.

Bear in mind turnouts embeded in pavement are of the single point type construction, only one point moved, these are by far the easiest to build from scratch and avoids the massive "pothole effect" after paving that results around the points using standard turnouts.

[bogp40]

I would like to mention, that colored plaster is recommended. Rail cleaning is always a headache w/ steet rail. The top of the railhead is flu***o the pavement. Painted plaster could prove to be a problem in the future, you will find yourself contantly touching up the paint. There is a channel rail available for this purpose but it has to be handlaid on the plywood or tie base. Soldering the base web of guardrail on flextrack is the method I would use. the rails can always be respiked ifthere is any soldering damage to the guage. Any solder can be filed out w/ a section of hacksaw blade to get the flange depth back.
Bob K.

[HAZMAT9]

Many thanks for all the advice, seems pretty straightforward now. Sounds the like the Code 100 will do me just fine and save a few $s. Steve

[jrbarney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Robert Knapp

. . . There is a channel rail available for this purpose but it has to be handlaid on the plywood or tie base. . . .
Bob K.

Steve,
I believe Mr. Knapp is referring to Orr Street Railway Track girder rail:
http://www.trolleyville.com/richard-orr.html
It would look more authentic, but would not be as inexpensive as the Code 100 approach.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Jetrock]

If you're not doing a lot of street running, take a look at Walthers' Street System--they make prefab plastic pieces designed to fit into Atlas track and switches to simulate in-street trackage. They are designed for use with Code 83 track, but work fine with Code 100, which also means that the railhead is .017" higher, which makes track cleaning a tad easier.

You can also make styrene road for your in-street track--less expensive if you're doing a large area--using .020" styrene supported on 1/8" foamcore outside the rails and stripwood inside. If you go this route (or the Walthers Street System) I recommend painting the rails dark brown or black so you don't get unrealistic views of the track when close up--a paint coat kills any shine.

My layout is mostly street-trackage, although I haven't put in the between-the-tracks concrete on most of its length yet.

[Anonymous]

It's possible to obtain the correct pattern rail with a groove in but it seems tricky to find (and I hear it needs a special tool to bend it - due to the shape it's pretty rigid). I've seen conventional rail used in real life too though they didn't have any switches on that section (all embedded switches were/are laid using the grooved rail on that system). www.bristol-rail.co.uk/dockside.php has photos of this system which might be of use. Hope this helps!

[Jetrock]

You are correct, RB--Orr girder rail requires a special bending tool, and those modeling steam or diesel CANNOT use Orr switches (they're effectively a 6" radius curve, have only one point, and are grounded to a common rail.) www.customtraxx.com is a commercial source for Orr girder rail.

[BR60103]

I don't think the steam railroads used girder rail for street running.
I think they also went for a second rail for the flangeway.
In Kitchener I remember switches with the lever in between the points, in a channel in the road surface -- may have had a lid on it.
Toronto Transit streetcar system is slowly eliminating girder rail for a flangeway cast into the concrete. They used wooden ties under the road surface but I think they are onto something more modern.

[dinwitty]

you can take scale wooden ties sideways as a barrier for the street pavementt.
No girder rail or 2nd rail.
Just use normal turnouts.

[Jetrock]

The only problem is that while the "sideways ties" approach words for short grade crossings, it wasn't used for street running where, say, a railroad ran down a paved street for several blocks (or miles!)

In-street trackage does not REQUIRE girder rail or guardrail, although it doesn't hurt--you can simulate the effect with styrene or by pouring in plaster and rolling a pair of old thickly flanged wheelsets through the plaster before it dries to carve out flangeways.

Girder rail was generally preferred because a metal flangeway was less likely to chip and collect rocks and bits of concrete that could damage wheel flanges or cause derailments to lightweight trolley cars. Steam/diesel railroads used this sometime but not exclusively--I'll have to go look and see what UP uses on the still-active industrial spur downtown that still uses street running. But at least some of the in-street trackage I have seen uses girder rail.

Does that mean you have to use it? No--I don't, and my prototype did use it. But you could use it if you wanted to--plenty of electric lines that handled freight later changed over to diesel and used the same track!

[HAZMAT9]

A lot of great ideas here. What I would like to do is model the street running area with the look of very old rail running at very low speeds because of weak rails. Funny, I haven't been able to find much in the way of pics or info on the net regarding street running. I may check out the Walther's Street System and if it works, make some modifications to it for a more realistic look. Thanks All! Steve

[Anonymous]

Check the MR back issues from a few years ago for the series on the Union Freight RR. That had a section on modelling street track. John Pryke painted the area underneath the track black to help hide the gaps between the ties that would show through between the pavement and the rail.

Cheers,
Mo

[Jetrock]

The Union Freight series is also reprinted in "Building City Scenery for your Model Railroad" and contains some good advice on urban modeling in general. There is a whole section on how to do the styrene/foamcore streets, which look nice and are easier to get to than plaster, but take some work...piece of advice: DON'T use cardstock for your streets if you do street running!

Normally street running was done at low speeds for safety rather than weak rails--as mentioned, generally the rails are buried so the size of the rails is pretty moot.

[HAZMAT9]

Definitely safety at low speeds!! Also I plan on having the rails work into a few weak sidings w/ lots of weeds with tight curves. Thanks a bunch!! Steve

[dinwitty]

based on any streetcar trackage, you want girder rail, it allowed pavement to fill in the track areas.
Rail turned edge on, or just spike down a 2nd rail, or use metal L-Girder brass.
Since you might not see tie detail like on the mainline, you could handlay-spike it all down, use wood ties or not on the bare track board (I use homasote) cut into the ties a designed dip or the homoste to get some designed rough trackage (but not reliquish good operating!)
Walthers has a cobblestone roadway you could chip out some bricks here and there for some roughed up looks.

[wccobb]

Lottsa good answers here and all "correct". "If ya look long enuf, you'll find a prototype for nearly anything". Seems the prototype was mostly what the Mechnical Department (or whoever) decided they wanted, although local codes could also enter. (Chicago's streetcars had special narrow flanges & flangeways and you COULD NOT run standard railroad equipment over those narrow flangeways).
Someone should mention there is a serious problem with girder rail. It's gotta be in gage. Absolutely in gage. Any outta gage & the wheel flanges climb out. Not too good!!!!. Were cost a strong consideration, code 100 is the way to go, Atlas (or your favorite) track, switches & everything. Get it all working good BEFORE adding the plaster (or whatever) roadway.

[Jetrock]

Flangeways were often shallow on street track--the Sacramento Northern built all their equipment to railroad standards, and when a fantrip brought SN's Birney #62 to San Francisco to run over the Market Street Railway trackage, the wider flanges of 62 caused all sorts of minor damage to the street-railway system, as well as chips on the flanges!

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by Jetrock

The only problem is that while the "sideways ties" approach words for short grade crossings, it wasn't used for street running where, say, a railroad ran down a paved street for several blocks (or miles!)

Actually, there are a few fairly long stretches of street trackage here in Phoenix that use this method.

John Timm

• Reply
• Edit