The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls

[Bergie]

Nice reference to the power trio from Canada, Rush. Reminds me I need to get some of their quality material on my iPod.

Bravo!

[Leon Silverman]

If you want something light and flexible, check out flexible 6" diameter heating ducts. It is sold in 30" long cartons and can be stretched to 25 feet. You won't have to paint it. It only comes in black.

[davekelly]

Muddy,

I haven't tried it as a backdrop. I purchased them as I have a couple of rather large structures on the project list to work on first and I want to avoid having numerous joints that would be required if I used the Evergreen sheets. I also was very surprised at the cost (one of those great deals that I just can't turn down). There are a couple threads on here discussing styrene backdrops and those that have tried it seem to think it works wonderfully. In fact after reading several of the threads and actually looking at the styrene sheets, I''m pretty convinced that when I get around to making a backdrop, styrene is the way to go.

As to your question. How far apart are the uprights? In looking at the sheets I got, it seems that if the sheet was securely attached along the bottom and the uprights were say about 4 feet apart, it would be pretty sag free. I am also guessing that the uprights wouldn't have to be all that bulky, perhaps 1/2 by 2's with a small cross brace to keep the upright, well, upright.

Hopefully, someone here has actually used the stuff for a backdrop and can fill both of us in.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Dave. I'll be ordering some soon to use for a backdrop so I'll try to do some photos. For anyone interested in very large sheets of styrene at suprisingly cheap prices see the US Plastics website. www.usplastic.com (example: 40 inches x 72 inches for $5.32)

Wayne

[MisterBeasley]

What are the shipping charges like for usplatic sheets? At that price, it's worth ordering just to experiment with.

[Anonymous]

I looked at ordering 10 sheets of .020 styrene. (About 200 square foot.) The total order cost was $60.61 including shipping at $13.72 from Lima, Ohio to Lake Placid, NY. Shipping for a single sheet would be $5.01. The per sheet price for my order was discounted 10% because of the quantity. The price per square foot was about 31 cents including shipping.

This would give me enough for my backdrop and also to cover the bottom of the layout in the sections that get raised and stored up at the ceiling.

Again, this is for the very thin 0.020 styrene. Heavier gauge plastic will have bigger shipping charges.

Wayne

[davekelly]

Mister Beasley,

When I purchased the stuff, a 40 by 72 inch sheet of .02 styrene was 4.66. Shipping for that one piece to West Texas would be 5.03, for a total of 9.63. As a comparison, Evergreen sheets are 6 by 12 inches and you get three in a pack for 2.49. It would take about 13 packs (if my math is right) of the Evergreen sheets to get the same area of sheet - or $32.00 plus shipping or sales tax depending on where you buy it! Of course, like Wayne pointed out, the shipping comes out much less per sheet the more you buy. Like you, I bought some sheets just to play with. I figured I couldn't go wrong!

[Anonymous]

I'm pretty sure most subway tunnels were built pre 1930's. Wouldn't this suggest the use of brick walls (and concrete) with reinforced (rebar grid) ceilings? If memory serves (wishful thinking), the walls were alternately of brick and poured concrete; the ceilings of reinforced (rebar grid) concrete. Vertical steel uprights [studs] seperated wall sections [tangents] from the foci of the raidius (radii) on curved tracks. Also, reinforced concrete joists (ceiling) spanned wide areas at stations. How did we come to such a conundrum? Mister Beasley, please make your next project an elevated train where the scenery is less challenging...lol! Oh yes, your idea of a PCC (multi units?) is a good one. Mustn't forget the proverbial "pick pocket" with a big Irish (red nosed) cop in "hot pursuit!" Happy rails to you.

[MisterBeasley]

Boston's Red Line extension was built in the late 1970s to early '80s, but other parts of the system go way back. I may try slightly different tunnel wall styles in different segments, which will add variety to the scenery as well as speaking to the "evolutionary" nature of subways.

I've been slowly accumulating passengers and other characters for the stations. Now I'm on the lookout for pickpockets, running cops and street musicians, too, thanks to all the suggestions. I hope to lay the first tracks this weekend!

[Anonymous]

Yes Mister Beasley, by the way, how is the "Big Dig" going? At its current rate, the option of "on site" construction should be timely well into the next century. That is, if there are enough U.S. tax payers left to see it through...lol. Will you be using deck, girder, viaduct, trestle, etc. bridge work on the elevated section of the subway? If so, signal stanchions, cattle guards and an isolated third rail may add a bit of interest. Also, grafitti could be employed in such place where viewers can actually see something. Regards

[MisterBeasley]

For those not familiar with the Boston area, the "Big Dig" is the largest highway project going on in the country. They've taken an old elevated highway and put it underground, building tunnels and creating open space above. The cost overruns are staggering, and now they're finding leaks in the tunnels (some of which run under the harbor). Today's news announced that some of the fire exits from the tunnels are "missing, locked or boarded up," according to the radio.

I suspect that my own "Little Dig" will be finished first, and there will be no water leaking down from the bay unless it's made by Woodland Scenics. The cost will be high, but definitely will not require a tax increase. By the time it's done, though, I suspect that I may have stripped all the LHS's in Massachusetts of all their Evergreen H-columns and I-beams.

[Anonymous]

Isnt the topic words (The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls) Part of a song written by Simon and Garfunkel? (The sound of silence).

Maybe i'm wrong!

[davekelly]

History Channel had a fascinating show of the big dig in Boston on it's Modern Marvels series. Makes our construction challenges seem trivial lol.

[Anonymous]

I am listening to the song and i am right!

Pav!

[davekelly]

. . . .and tenament halls . . . . .

[rrinker]

Yes, the Rush song is Spirit of Radio and says "...on the studio walls" and is a reference to the Simon and Garfunkle song.

--Randy

[Anonymous]

Mister Beasley, I recently heard an estimate of over 400 leaks. These flaws are largely due to building on unstable soil with a very high salt content. Not very surprising when construction is on and around salt marshes. I understand the only method for curing and setting the poured concrete is by pre-freezing the soil supporting the forms? It begs the question: did the project engineers bother to research the mess into which they were entering? It may be called an "enginerring marvel" by some, however "political boondoggle" is the phrase that comes to my mind. Oh well, there should be plenty of employment in Boston into infinity. Should anyone be curious as to why the U.S. Interstate sytem across the country is in tatters; just look to "The Big Dig." Regards

[davekelly]

The history channel show did say something about the special concrete that would be used - but I don't remember the specifics of it.

[davekelly]

Ted,

You might find this little article interesting. http://www.wrgb.com/news/regional/regional.asp?selection=article_32275

Fasinating to see what the results can be when you google "big dig boston"

[Anonymous]

Thanks Dave, yes "been there-done that." If you would like to "dig" a bit deeper, I'm sure you will find the horrendous costs (so far) astonishing with "no end in sight." Thanks again, Ted

[ahuffman]

Another suggestion for tunnel construction might be the ribbed plastic pipe sold for drains. It come in 10 foot lengths and 100 foot rolls and is very flexible. It may be possible to split one side and make it into a semicircular tunnel.

On the subject of music in the subways, the little system here in Pittsburgh has classical music piped in through the ceiling speakers.

I'm looking forward to seeing this subway layout. I've only personally seen one such. It was an O scale trolley layout with a portion of subway running and was viewed from what would be the platform on the near side of a station. It belonged to Peter Weiglin when he lived here. One of his claims to fame is having been the first director of marketing for a public transit agency in America.

You can find some information on the Big Dig on the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority's website at http://www.masspike.com/bigdig/index.html

[davekelly]

ahuffman,

There's some really good subway layouts out there. Goggle "subway new york model" some of the work is amazing!

[davekelly]

Mister Beasley,

Check out this website! Pics pics and more pics!!
http://www.nycrail.com/

You might also enjoy this site: http://www.nycsubway.org/irt/irtbook/ch2.html This particular page discusses the construction of the IRT line and does have several photos showing the construction of the line. nycsubway.org site itself is filled with great info.

[Anonymous]

Must be a rush fan[{(-_-)}]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by musicmanL888

Must be a rush fan[{(-_-)}]

Perhaps, but you have to go back to the source, Paul Simon's "Sounds of Silence" for the phrase MisterBeasely quoted, not the paraphrase in the Rush song.

Wayne

[Anonymous]

Hey Guys,
I grew up with all the music you've been talking about, But what the h___ is a subway? I grew up in Detroit. (The Motor City.) Give me a cool ride with ZZ TOP's "Sharp Dressed Man" on the Radio. Besides it's a long walk down to the "GT" Millwalkee St. yard to see what's in town today. I keep my camera in the glove box, just in case.

[MisterBeasley]

First Tracks! As a skier, that conjures up images of being the first one down a slope after a night of fresh powder. But now, as a model railroader, it means a caulking gun and roadbed and flex track. Either way, it's all downhill from here.

The first tracks for the MBTA (Moose Bay Transit Authority) were laid over the weekend, and I applied power and shuttled my R-17's back and forth a few times on Monday, April 11th. I've added a turnout and some "under construction" areas, and I've been looking for musicians for my stations, thanks to the suggestions here. And no, I haven't even started on my taxes...

[challenger3802]

As for the walls on the London Underground, they range from brick walls (which have recently been painted burgundy to cover over the graffiti) on the sub surface lines, to grimy black walls in the deep tube lines. And in those deep tube lines, cables run halfway up the walls which carry all the power and communcations links.

Looking out the carriage windows there really is nothing much to see except darkness, until you come roaring into the brightly lit stations!

If you wanted to get really realistic you could have your trian stop in the tunnels for no apparent reason - just like the real thing!

Ian

[Anonymous]

Lots of great subway photos here:
http://world.nycsubway.org
This covers the cars and stations and gives you a lot to work with. I haven't come across tunnel shots though.

Also for surface track, the satellite photos at maps.google are a tremendous resource. I haven't figured out how, if you can, pinpoint stations, but if you know a nearby address you can find stations and trackwork pretty easily.

For instance if you search for
Krispy Kreme Medford Massachusetts
and click on item A, that will bring you right beside the Wellington Station and one of the servicing facilities on the Orange Line. Zoom in to the largest magnification and just scroll over a little to the left and down a little. You can drag the photo around with the mouse for smaller adjustments than you get by clicking the arrows.

The cars in service on the Orange Line are 65' long, so as you can see from the train in the reversing loop, that loop is approximately 130' radius, or about 9 3/4" in N scale!

If you continue scrolling down to follow the tracks you will pretty quickly come to the servicing facilities for the diesel powered commuter trains, and then to North Station.

Cheers,
Maureen

[Anonymous]

I bought a couple of sheets of this stuff:

http://www.heki-kittler.de/heki/seiten_e/tipps_e/tipps_seite_e.html#t2

at a train show and lined a tunnel with it. I really liked the look and how it worked.... so maybe it's an option for you.

The only problem is, I can't find anyone that seems to carry it... so if anyone has found it here in the US, please let me know.