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frog higher than rails -- defecting turnout?

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  • From: Northeast OH
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Posted by tstage on Friday, March 17, 2023 4:03 PM

Greg,

I had an Atlas 90o crossing that was especially noisy.  After some investigation, I discovered that the plastic insulated area in the middle of the crossing was higher than the track.  This caused locomotives to scrape their underbelly each time they passed over the crossing.  Once I replaced it with a Shinohara crossing - voila! - no more noise!

I would replace the errant turnout with another one but verify that the new turnout doesn't suffer from the same issue.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by jjdamnit on Friday, March 17, 2023 3:48 PM

Hello All,

I've experienced a similar situation on Atlas Snap Switches with plastic frogs.

What I did was buy a medium grit sharpening stone and used it to "knock down" the uneven plastic frogs.

The sharpening stone is more abrasive than a "Bright Boy" and less aggressive than a Jeweler's or another type of file so it doesn't mar the Nickle-Silver rails while being able to remove the excess plastic.

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, March 17, 2023 1:18 PM

Here is a system that may be easier to keep aligned with railheads and has discs down to 6000 grit:

https://www.horl.com/de/en/sharpeners

As an interesting aside: you can clean some of the fine-grit lapping stones with Bon Ami to get the metal scurf out of the pores in the stone as you work...

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, March 17, 2023 12:48 PM

gregc

while investigating the cause of derailments, it was noticed that cars jumped when reaching they frog and that the frog was noticeably taller than the adjoining rails.

this turnout was installed ~10 years ago in hidden staging

is this a known problem (at that time)? could atlas have sold a bad batch of turnouts?   probably a customline turnout

is the only alternative to replace the turnout or can it be repaired (ground down with a dremel tool)?

 

Random occasional problem with a few batches over the years. By one means of another, as suggested, just file them down. Personally I do not use a power tool for this, a small flat mill file works fine.

I like the idea of the circular hone.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, March 17, 2023 12:45 PM

mbinsewi

The porototype uses whats called flange bearing frogs, or jump frogs.

The busiest line gets a nice smooth ride, as the opposing, or less used line has to "jump" over frog.

https://www.trains.com/mrr/beginners/ask-trains/ask-mr-flange-bearing-frogs-explained/

Mike.

 

Only used in specific situations.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, March 17, 2023 12:29 PM

The porototype uses whats called flange bearing frogs, or jump frogs.

The busiest line gets a nice smooth ride, as the opposing, or less used line has to "jump" over frog.

https://www.trains.com/mrr/beginners/ask-trains/ask-mr-flange-bearing-frogs-explained/

Mike.

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Posted by gregc on Friday, March 17, 2023 11:24 AM

to all, very enlightening, thanks

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by hon30critter on Friday, March 17, 2023 11:20 AM

gregc
while investigating the cause of derailments, it was noticed that cars jumped when reaching they frog and that the frog was noticeably taller than the adjoining rails.

Hi Greg,

When I was with my old train club, one of my tasks was to 'tune' all the Atlas turnouts. I would say that about 40% had high frogs so I dressed the turnouts with a file. It didn't take too much to correct the problem.

However, we discovered another problem with a few of the turnouts where the frogs had popped out of their positions and were sticking up quite high. It was easy to glue them back into place before the turnouts were installed, but if the problem occurred after the turnout was installed (likely from rough handling) it was a much greater challenge.

I used a heavy steel block about 1 1/2" x 3" x 2" to test the turnouts. All I did was slide it down the rails towards the point of the frog. If the frog was out of place in the least, the block would catch on the point.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by dknelson on Friday, March 17, 2023 10:44 AM

I  heard a clinic on Zoom where the very experienced modeler told about using a circular hone on his track that removed all little protrusions and irregularities that can occur even with the best track and best track laying.

It is a Norton machine knife stone, and you rub the flat botton back and forth on the track.  

Here is an image taken from the internet:

Norton Machine Knife Stone (sharpeningsupplies.com)

Dave Nelson

 

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Posted by wvgca on Friday, March 17, 2023 9:29 AM

i 'tuned' all the atlas custom line number six switches before i installed them.. a few passes with a file took the 'extra' height off the frogs , it wasn't much but there was some ..

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Posted by rrebell on Friday, March 17, 2023 9:09 AM

I had that problem with a Shinohara turnout, I just filed it, worked great.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, March 17, 2023 7:39 AM

I had 1 Atlas #6 turnout that was like that, it was up front and easy to get to, so a Dremel fixed it.

It only seem to affect travel in one direction.

Mike.

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    September 2004
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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, March 17, 2023 5:08 AM

That was a problem at the time.

If you can reach the turnout with a Dremel, you would be better off just replacing the faulty turnout.

Rich

Alton Junction

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frog higher than rails -- defecting turnout?
Posted by gregc on Friday, March 17, 2023 4:52 AM

while investigating the cause of derailments, it was noticed that cars jumped when reaching they frog and that the frog was noticeably taller than the adjoining rails.

this turnout was installed ~10 years ago in hidden staging

is this a known problem (at that time)? could atlas have sold a bad batch of turnouts?   probably a customline turnout

is the only alternative to replace the turnout or can it be repaired (ground down with a dremel tool)?

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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