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To solder or not to solder, that is the question.

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  • Member since
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  • From: Frankfort, Indiana
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To solder or not to solder, that is the question.
Posted by Morpar on Monday, December 12, 2022 6:13 PM

I finally got started laying track today, and a big question popped into my head. What is the consensus on soldering rail joiners when laying track? I did it 40 years ago on the 4 x 8 layout in Mom & Dad's basement, but when filling a basement is it a good or bad idea? Maybe just leave some small gaps every so many sections to allow for movement? What do most people do and why? 

For just a little background the basement is 27' x 49', all poured concrete, with a large dehumidifier running at 45% humidity. There is a little heat vent coming off the main trunk to upstairs at one end, but I don't really need it thus far. 

Good Luck, Morpar

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, December 12, 2022 6:18 PM

I generally don't solder rail joiners, but I do solder feeder wires to the outside of the rails on every piece of track. 

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Morpar on Monday, December 12, 2022 6:49 PM

Yeah, I plan to add a feeder to each track section as well. I was more thinking of maintaining track alignment instead of electrical conductivity. 

Good Luck, Morpar

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, December 12, 2022 7:21 PM

If you wire a pair of feeders to every section of track, there is no reason to solder rail joiners for alignment purposes. The rail joiners will hold the rails in alignment without the need for soldering.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by mbinsewi on Monday, December 12, 2022 8:02 PM

I soldered everything.  But that just me, haha.  What Rich says brings up a good point.

I didn't solder feeders to each track, has I had a lot of smaller sections, for yards and spurs, but the main, is all sections of flex track, and all have feeders, so I could've not soldered the joiners and all would be fine.

I even soldered in little jumpers at the track joiners, just to be sure.!

I have a fair amount of hidden track, so I didn't want any problems.  So far, after 12 yrs. ? it's been working fine.

Mike.

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Posted by doctorwayne on Monday, December 12, 2022 9:05 PM

I solder all rail joiners except those at the ends of bridges, as I want to be able to remove the bridges if I need to do scenic work around or under the bridges.
Six of the small towns on my layout have double track through them to allow passage of on-coming trains or room for trains passing in the same direction.  Because I am the sole operator, it's up to me to decide which train needs to be moving and which ones need to remain stationary, hence the feeder wires to both tracks through each town, and ON/OFF switches on the layout's fascia for each of those tracks.

Wayne

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, December 12, 2022 9:14 PM

The one area where I do solder the rail joiners is on curves in order to avoid kinks.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Monday, December 12, 2022 9:24 PM

Well, I have been solding all my rail joints for 50 years now.

I do use DC, so that means all the jonts within each block, typically between 40' to 70' each.

Like Wayne, there are some strategic places I don't solder, but I only install one feeder per block.

If I feel a block needs some expansion/contraction allowence, I solder a jumper around the rail joiner.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by PennsyLou on Tuesday, December 13, 2022 7:56 AM

I'm also in the "solder everything" camp, and install my feeders every 10' or so, or as required for complex trackwork.  I'm currently in the "debug" stage of construction - while the basement layout sees a reasonably stable temperature, there have been a couple places where expansion has been an issue and gaps had to be cut - with additional feeders added as necessary.

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Posted by Pruitt on Tuesday, December 13, 2022 9:20 AM

I solder only where necessary, meaning at two spots:

  1. All rail joints on curves, and
  2. when connecting rail of different heights (like code 83 to code 70).

Other than that, all joints are unsoldered to allow for expansion and contraction.

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Posted by BATMAN on Tuesday, December 13, 2022 1:19 PM

According to Wiring For DCC with Allan Gartner, everything should be soldered to something. Meaning if it doesn't have feeders soldered to it, it should be soldered to the next track that does. I followed this advice and have never had a problem.

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by kasskaboose on Tuesday, December 13, 2022 2:55 PM

Yes on the 1st one.

I also solder DCC feeders to track every three feet and three sets on the turnouts.

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Posted by selector on Tuesday, December 13, 2022 4:27 PM

In order to halve my work, or the chore if that is how you look at soldering feeders and joiners, I solder all along a curve and then only every other joiner.  The ones not soldered act as aligners while still allowing for track wiggling.  Soldering every other joiner allows for six contiguous feet of assured and reliable electrical power along the length.

Logically, and schematically:

x- are soldered, o- are open/sliding

======x===========o===========x=========o========

As you can plainly see, each soldered joiner, an X, powers 180 deg on either side for three full feet. The next on either side are open and sliding, but we don't care that they are electrically unreliable because....next to them are the required soldered/fed joiners.

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Posted by jjdamnit on Tuesday, December 13, 2022 5:05 PM

Hello All,

I solder all the joints and feeders except for the insulated plastic rail joiners!

Smile Big Smile Wink

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by PC101 on Tuesday, December 13, 2022 6:43 PM

I solder every rail joint that needs to be soldered. About 98% of the joints I'd guess.

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Posted by "JaBear" on Wednesday, December 14, 2022 2:27 AM
The Club is in an uninsulated building that experiences over a year, a temperature range from 26°F to 86°F. It is also situated in an active geothermal area with the attendant hydrogen sulphide in the air.
 
Our practice is to only solder the joiners in the curves if required, but every length of track has its own soldered feed of 20 gauge wire. The bus is 14 gauge.
 
If laying track, Peco Code 100, in winter we use a credit card between the rail joins which seems to take care of any expansion during the summer.
 
My 2 CentsCheers, the Bear.Smile

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by rrebell on Wednesday, December 14, 2022 10:07 AM

I found out that it is best to solder everything and then cut any gaps needed. Now this is asuming track is laid on a stable base, plywood is not stable.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, December 14, 2022 11:27 AM

Morpar
What is the consensus on soldering rail joiners when laying track?

I doubt you will find a consensus.

I solder rail into sections of about 72", and then leave a loose rail joiner for the next section. All sections get feeder wires.

rrebell
Now this is asuming track is laid on a stable base, plywood is not stable.

How is plywood not stable? I thought it was pretty universal except for foam.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by NorthsideChi on Wednesday, December 14, 2022 2:48 PM

My 12' demo layout that I use to test ideas on just has the ends of the tracks soldered  No joiners.  But I do have feeder wires in 6 locations.  The layout is moved around a lot and sometimes I drop heavy MDF on top and then set heavy equipment on that.   It's endured basement floods, humidity, and dust from wood and metal working.  Still always works and somehow trains continue to run smoothly on it.  

When I set up a large permanent layout I'll do the same thing.  soldered ends and feeder wires. It's just a pain to carefully flip like 10' of track that's been soldered becauee it will break apart. I have to ask my friends or neighbors to help set up track in the past. 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, December 14, 2022 4:46 PM

rrebell

I found out that it is best to solder everything and then cut any gaps needed. Now this is asuming track is laid on a stable base, plywood is not stable.

 

At the risk of sounding elitest, any kind of quality plywood is plenty stable in any environment which a model train layout should be constructed.

Don't even begin to tell me foam is stable. Anything I can break over my knee is not stable.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Wednesday, December 14, 2022 5:21 PM

I solder feeders to the rail joiners for power connectivity, and, like a few others, I typically solder the rails on curves.  I have tight 18-inch curves, so that helps keeping the track stable.  I use Atlas flex track, so that is a bit springy.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by Morpar on Wednesday, December 14, 2022 8:12 PM

With all of the comments being for soldering the joints (as well as feeders) I am doing just that. Still getting the hang of using a resistance soldering rig, but so far it isn't bad. I have only had to relay 1 section of track and finesse 1 joint. Since I figured I need to get the helix at each end done to act as a baseline I started with the easier one yesterday. I got the first layer done and tested today and am almost ready to lay out the second layer tomorrow. Thanks for all the input! I really thought the joints should be soldered, but wasn't sure if in the long term people had issues with the rails being too solid.

Good Luck, Morpar

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Posted by John-NYBW on Wednesday, December 14, 2022 8:52 PM

I solder the feeders to the rail joiners and then solder those joiners to the rails. I do that at every other joint. That connects a feeder to every section of track with half the feeders required if you solder directly to the rails. It also makes for less soldering.  

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Posted by rrebell on Thursday, December 15, 2022 8:40 AM

SeeYou190

 

 
Morpar
What is the consensus on soldering rail joiners when laying track?

 

I doubt you will find a consensus.

I solder rail into sections of about 72", and then leave a loose rail joiner for the next section. All sections get feeder wires.

 

 
rrebell
Now this is asuming track is laid on a stable base, plywood is not stable.

 

How is plywood not stable? I thought it was pretty universal except for foam.

-Kevin

 

No, plywood expands a bit with humidity, things like beaded seasoned foam do not (foam dose shrink when first made).

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Posted by rrebell on Thursday, December 15, 2022 8:42 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 
rrebell

I found out that it is best to solder everything and then cut any gaps needed. Now this is asuming track is laid on a stable base, plywood is not stable.

 

 

 

At the risk of sounding elitest, any kind of quality plywood is plenty stable in any environment which a model train layout should be constructed.

Don't even begin to tell me foam is stable. Anything I can break over my knee is not stable.

Sheldon

 

That is why you use wood framing like 1x4's to set it on, and by the way, those expand but caulk has enough plability that is a mute point.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, December 15, 2022 9:10 AM

To add my small opinion to that of the practical model railroaders:  My advice would be to solder the joiners in a length of rail served by a physical soldered feeder.  If the feeders are parallel-joined to an adequate undertrack bus -- as they should be -- there will be little if any discontinuity, of either electric power or DCC logic, across joints left open for expansion or to facilitate switch extraction.

I liked Mel Perry's apporoach to joints, which was to cut the gap with suitable kerf, file up a 'fitting' piece of sheet styrene or equivalent to 'rail profile', cement it in, and file or dress the railhead contact area to smoothness.  I do NOT believe in using those insulating rail joiners with a fin or pin to accomplish the task of gapping.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, December 15, 2022 10:43 AM

rrebell

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

 

 
rrebell

I found out that it is best to solder everything and then cut any gaps needed. Now this is asuming track is laid on a stable base, plywood is not stable.

 

 

 

At the risk of sounding elitest, any kind of quality plywood is plenty stable in any environment which a model train layout should be constructed.

Don't even begin to tell me foam is stable. Anything I can break over my knee is not stable.

Sheldon

 

 

 

That is why you use wood framing like 1x4's to set it on, and by the way, those expand but caulk has enough plability that is a mute point.

 

 

If I can't lean my 230 lbs on it, it's not "stable".

If humidity and temperature are stable, wood is stable. Especially plywood.

I don't see the attraction of foam, I just don't get it. I don't like working with it as insulation, and I'm surely not building a model train layout with it.

As for scenery, I like my scenery hollow - wire screen and plaster or other hard shell methods.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, December 15, 2022 10:47 AM

Overmod

 I do NOT believe in using those insulating rail joiners with a fin or pin to accomplish the task of gapping. 

Yet, they work, and they are easily concealed.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by John-NYBW on Saturday, December 17, 2022 6:01 AM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

I don't see the attraction of foam, I just don't get it. I don't like working with it as insulation, and I'm surely not building a model train layout with it.

As for scenery, I like my scenery hollow - wire screen and plaster or other hard shell methods.

 

The advantage of foam is its lightweight which makes it easier to move. I built the first section of my current layout using a foam base but soon discovered its main disadvantage which is it makes using undermount switch machines difficult. My solution was to mortoise out a rectangular section from the foam and glue a plywood piece into it. Those have held up for 20 years now. After dealing with that, I realized it's unlikely I'll be moving my layout so why worry about having a lightweight base. The rest of the layout was built with a sturdy plywood base. 

I've tried several methods for scenery contours but have settled on using webs made of cardboard strips and covered with red resin paper. I cover that with joint compound in the back half and plaster of paris in the front half. I buy the joint compound in powdered form in large bags. It's sturdy enough for the background scenery but I prefer the extra strength of plaster for the foreground. 

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, December 17, 2022 7:05 AM

John-NYBW

 

 
ATLANTIC CENTRAL

I don't see the attraction of foam, I just don't get it. I don't like working with it as insulation, and I'm surely not building a model train layout with it.

As for scenery, I like my scenery hollow - wire screen and plaster or other hard shell methods.

 

 

 

The advantage of foam is its lightweight which makes it easier to move. I built the first section of my current layout using a foam base but soon discovered its main disadvantage which is it makes using undermount switch machines difficult. My solution was to mortoise out a rectangular section from the foam and glue a plywood piece into it. Those have held up for 20 years now. After dealing with that, I realized it's unlikely I'll be moving my layout so why worry about having a lightweight base. The rest of the layout was built with a sturdy plywood base. 

I've tried several methods for scenery contours but have settled on using webs made of cardboard strips and covered with red resin paper. I cover that with joint compound in the back half and plaster of paris in the front half. I buy the joint compound in powdered form in large bags. It's sturdy enough for the background scenery but I prefer the extra strength of plaster for the foreground. 

 

John, when I was younger I tried for years to design a layout that would be built in modules in case of a move. I found all such track plans unable to meet my scenic and operational goals. 

I prefer plaster on wire screen, and open grid/plywood benchwork. 

Sheldon

 

    

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