If you were building this, what changes would you make? As I recover from stroke, I started wondering if I should make improvements or move on to a new one. If I do stay with this one, what changes could be made to maybe get more out of it? So have at it. curious what others would do with this.
I added more info in a post below
SHane
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
I would get rid of the horizontal peninsula (or isthmus, more properly), widen the stub penninsula so that it can accomidate a return loop, and extend it more so that it takes up the whole center of the room. The aisleway then becomes an inverted U with no duck-unders for operation once you're in the train room. I think that's important not to have duck-unders while running the layout. Getting in and out of the room is one thing, you do that far less frequently than each time the train makes a circuit around the room.
With appropriate trackage along the south wall, the one return loop can be used in both directions as a return loop at both ends of a point-to-point arrangement, or you can just go around the penninsula without changing directions for continuous running, both on the same layout.
I would also get rid of the center piece. Two duckunders is one too many for sure.
Then I would enlarge the peninsula or widen the outside shelves so as to get in a small yard and/or more structures.
But no matter what kind of advice you get here, remember that what you build must make YOU happy/satisfied.
Best wishes!!!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Duck unders are for young people. The older you get the lower they get. Add physical limitations from a couple of strokes and it may be impossible should you experience a second one. I would err on doing away with them.
I like JaBear's proposed track plan a lot. No duckunders, complete access to all points on the layout. In JaBear's center peninsula, I believe that he is proposing a wye to permit trains to change direction. An alternative would be to simply turn the peninsula into a loop so that the track would exit the peninsula in the same direction that it entered the peninsula.
To permit a reversal of direction, a crossover could be installed on the left side and the right side of the layout to connect the parallel straight sections of track on each side of the layout. Those crossovers would be part of two reversing sections, one on each side of the layout.
Rich
Alton Junction
NVSRRSo have at it. curious what others would do with this.
what do you want from your layout?
looks like you want a continuos run. but the following might fit better in your space if you were more interested in pt-to-pt operation
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
I like what has been suggested to make access easier. I don't know about you but if it uncomfortable to get into the layout and operate or work I am less likely to enjoy the layout. I like the walk in style and your space is fair sized to accomidate some coninuous run and a branchline if desired. I like my layout elbow high or higher but when I am switching pull a stool up to ease the aches. So if you keep a good sized space a rolling chair could be used to operate the layout while in a seated position.
Hope that gives food for thought.
John
CharlieMAlso you can work under the layout with a mechanic’s creeper and a headlamp.
if you make the layout high enough, ~5', you can use a desk chair with wheels
gregc CharlieM Also you can work under the layout with a mechanic’s creeper and a headlamp. if you make the layout high enough, ~5', you can use a desk chair with wheels
CharlieM Also you can work under the layout with a mechanic’s creeper and a headlamp.
I just recently decided to make my new layout a little higher than first planned, but I will never build another layout at 5' did that once, upper level of a double deck - hated it.
As for the OP and his plan, I don't have any feel for his goals, but if I only had that size space, I would build a switching layout like Greg suggested - OR - I would forget all these plans with peninsulas and just go around the four walls witha duck under/lift out. On one wall I would make the benchwork deep, 4', for a yard, urban scenery, etc.
If I am honest with myself, I would most likely regret the choice of a point to point switching layout as my only layout scheme.
Sheldon
More in keeping with the original design but still eliminating the duck under.
Hi Bear,
I like your design. However, I might suggest that the OP do a mock up to see if the aisle widths are adequate. If the OP will be the lone operator then I don't see any problems, but if he wants to have guests then everyone had better be pretty skinny, or he needs to narrow the benchwork in a few places to allow operators to pass each other.
Cheers!!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critterI like your design. However, I might suggest that the OP do a mock up to see if the aisle widths are adequate. If the OP will be the lone operator then I don't see any problems, but if he wants to have guests then everyone had better be pretty skinny, or he needs to narrow the benchwork in a few places to allow operators to pass each other.
I forgot to mention that this is central pa and that is mostly smaller branch lines, regonals and shortlines. The only 6 axles that run now go from the yard to the quarry. Athearn and BLI untis. most of the fleet are 4 axle. trains usually around 10 caRs but can go to 14. Modern era. layout sits at about 45 inches off the floor
I can see potential in Bear's last design. Any body have ideas on something smaller or possible double level?
Shane
Hi there. You definitely have room for a single mainline with 2 return loops at each end for an open entry into the room. The question is: do you want a double mainline or not. A double mainline adds to the fun and is quite dooable with a liftout. I have a liftout - not that hard to do (If you've never built one, I suggest you do a search to see what are the best practices). My liftout is hinged, has two lines of track and is most often in an up-right position. You'd be surprised the number of times you go in and out of the train room with materials in your hands... Maybe do a coal mine (in some hilly terrain) at one end, and build an industrial site at the opposite side, with one or two passenger stations in between.
I'd leave space in the middle for a comfy chair or two were you can sit, watch two trains run in opposite directions, and sip your favorite beverage. Note: a track that is positioned too high cuts down your visibility if you are sitting in a comfy chair.
Simon
NVSRR I can see potential in Bear's last design.
I can see potential in Bear's last design.
I also like the idea of a double mainline.
richhotrainI also like the idea of a double mainline.
A double main would completely change the feel of the layout. Not saying it can't be done or isn't appropriate, there are lots spun off secondary routes of the PC/RDG/LV in the east that were double track at one time.
As far as two levels goes, one coud easily split the line at some point and have the portion on the center peninsula on one level and one of the two spurs at the bottom on a separate level. Very common in SE PA to have multiple lines in the same valley on different level (most likely different railroads that could have been spun off by CR.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
snjroy Hi there. You definitely have room for a single mainline with 2 return loops at each end for an open entry into the room. The question is: do you want a double mainline or not. A double mainline adds to the fun and is quite dooable with a liftout.
Hi there. You definitely have room for a single mainline with 2 return loops at each end for an open entry into the room. The question is: do you want a double mainline or not. A double mainline adds to the fun and is quite dooable with a liftout.
dehusman richhotrain I also like the idea of a double mainline. A double main would completely change the feel of the layout.
richhotrain I also like the idea of a double mainline.
A double main would completely change the feel of the layout.
A double main line would fit if the curved track on the bottom left extends to the liftout (Dr. Wayne has done this, I can pull it up if needed). Or if the liftout is moved a few feet on the right. My train room is 11'X7' and I have a liftout with two mainlines (22" radius). It's tight, but it fits and it is perfectly functional.
richhotrain snjroy Hi there. You definitely have room for a single mainline with 2 return loops at each end for an open entry into the room. The question is: do you want a double mainline or not. A double mainline adds to the fun and is quite dooable with a liftout. dehusman richhotrain I also like the idea of a double mainline. A double main would completely change the feel of the layout. Given the footprint of the proposed layout, there probably isn't sufficient room for a double mainline, but I still like the idea. Rich
Given the footprint of the proposed layout, there probably isn't sufficient room for a double mainline, but I still like the idea.
Double track does not take much extra room. Being able to go 2" larger on the curves is the biggest space consideration for double track.
A layout this size would definately be better in double track.
First off if you want to do a continuous run, fiqure out your min radius and find two places in the room that a circle of that size fits. Then connect the two any way you want and the work your other stuff into it.
rrebell First off if you want to do a continuous run, fiqure out your min radius and find two places in the room that a circle of that size fits. Then connect the two any way you want and the work your other stuff into it.
I will suggest again that being inside the circle and avoiding "balloon" loops is much more effective in a space of this size and well worth the duck under/lift out compromize.
If you want staging or a longer run, go twice around hiding some parts of the run.
Our selectively compressed curves look better from the inside.
Continuity of direction, left is west, right is east, is maintained making operations more logical and simpler.
And there is no real estate "inside the loops" that is hard to justify or use.
richhotrain NVSRR I can see potential in Bear's last design. I still like Bear's first design, with or without my suggested modifications. A lot more interesting than the second design which is way too basic for me. And, there is no need for a lift out on the first design. I also like the idea of a double mainline. Rich
I still like Bear's first design, with or without my suggested modifications. A lot more interesting than the second design which is way too basic for me. And, there is no need for a lift out on the first design.
The problem I see with Bear's first plan is there isn't a convenient long enough straight section for a decent yard. Bear's second plan allows for that along the left wall. You could also add a staging track or two behind the yard hidden with a low backdrop.
Ray
I agree with Sheldon. A plan for this size should be around the room with a duckunder/liftout at the entrance. Peninsulas would probably not add much to operations and risk just being in the way of better elbow room. If you want to store stuff underneath the layout...skinny aisles make it hard to stoop without bumping your head or shoulders on the way back up. Maybe one side could have a little bump-in for a slight curve on one of the four walls.
I would have a town from 7 oclock to 11 o clock and then another from 3 oclock to 6 oclock with the liftout in the SW corner dead space. Operate it point to point style but simply run laps around the room to build up simulated distance between towns. Its important for a small layout to have that continuous running feature.
A double mainline would allow the train to use the outer loop for gathering lapping distance and then cross into the inner loop to pull into the stations.
And then there are the times you simply want to run two trains in opposite directions just because you can.
The plan could also have room for two or more staging tracks along a wall, possibly hidden behind a partial ridge. Another bonus of being able to have wider shelves since there wouldn't be a peninsula.
- Douglas
The area I. Question has mostly single track and for most of its time it has been that way. Might have been a few double track areas at one time.
I did have double track at one time. . I do see the advantage.
I take it the general consensus is the original isn't any good.
shane
Radius of the curves is a big factor as well, as others have mentioned. With 6 axle diesels, you need, at minimum, 22" radius. Sheldon would argue for more, and he would be right if you have long passenger cars or freight cars.
The point I am making is that if you want a loop for continuous operation, then doing that without a liftout involves large return loops at least 46" wide. That creates reach problems. For that reason, the liftout option, with track running along the walls with 24'' shelves is preferable. Otherwise, you need to think how you will reach that darn loco that derailed in the loop, against the wall... It's also easier to build scenery when every inch of the layout is easily reachable.
Duck unders are never a good idea. Just because you are in perfect health dosn't mean you can't step wrong and have a wobble for a few weeks, had that happen twice in the last 5 years, first time I could barely walk for a few days and I can keep up with the 20 year olds on class 3 trails. Oh and the stepping wrong happened walking down a concreat sidewalk that first time.
rrebell Duck unders are never a good idea. Just because you are in perfect health dosn't mean you can't step wrong and have a wobble for a few weeks, had that happen twice in the last 5 years, first time I could barely walk for a few days and I can keep up with the 20 year olds on class 3 trails. Oh and the stepping wrong happened walking down a concreat sidewalk that first time.
Well they don't have to be duck unders, they can be lift outs, or lift ups, swinging gates like the one that appeared in a "different" magazine a year or so ago. I am seriously consdering that for mine.
The well published Severna Park Model Railroad Club which has appeard in MR 5 or 6 times in the last 60 years has a duck under, no casualties yet..... even with the public coming in for open houses.
Not doing duck unders since I do have back problems and now slight balance problems from a stroke. so lift sections or no sections at all.