Does anyone make a curved turnout with a live frog? (code 100 preferred)
By a curved turnout, I don't mean a double curve, but a turnout you can put in place of a 30 degree 18R sectional track. (like Bachmann sectional track) Most track stops turning past the frog. This is for a branc line and a 0-6-0T to serve industries. Space is tight, hence why I want the curved turnout.I could use peco double curved, but I've have had bad luck with the lead trucks on steam jumping the points.(similar to below)
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Atlas Snap track used to have these. Code 100. They do not have a live frog, but they can be modified.
I would ask why the need for a live frog when on that configuration, with that sharp radius, the frog is going to be so small anyway. I can't imagine any locomotive, except maybe a small twin-axled docksider, having trouble with a plastic/dead frog as short as it must necessarily be.
Also, I don't understand why a short loco of the kind you'd worry over dead frogs could have any trouble with Peco points. For the geometry, I would worry about a larger steamer, say a fast freight Mikado or Northern class, or a substantial 2-1-0, but not the smaller engines. It sounds like the points need sharpening, or that they are not lying tight against the stock rails, or the points' upper tips are not at grade with the stock rail bearing surfaces....somehow they are low.
If you're really stuck when all the argumentation is done, and you need something like what you show above, there are people who would make you a nice and durable hand-laid turnout to fit. Just provide a pencil-rubbed paper showing the profile you'd need and the provider will have you in business within a couple of weeks with any luck.
selector I would ask why the need for a live frog when on that configuration, with that sharp radius, the frog is going to be so small anyway. I can't imagine any locomotive, except maybe a small twin-axled docksider, having trouble with a plastic/dead frog as short as it must necessarily be.
I had a 0-6-0T (bachmann) die on plastic frogs before. Putting a keep alive in there isn't an option really.
The trains that failed the PECO double curved were both Bachmann (2-8-0 Connie and 2-6-0 Moguls) The lead trucks have very small wheel flanges. The lead truck is also very light, causing the wheels to often jump the point rails. And yes I regauged it countless times using NMRA. I even tried "lifting" the points with a shim under the throwbar so it be less likely to drive over them. 4 axel diesels and non lead truck steam are not an issue.
I might have to see if fast tracks has a jig and make my own.
I have found it very simple to heat my frogs. I started my layout trackwork using Atlas and Walthers turnouts with dead frogs, but my old steamers' wheelbases wouldn't make it across, especially the long frogs of the Atlas double curved turnouts. And my little ol' 0-4-0 booster engine won't make it across ANY frog. So I wire them all up, and I've added power to frogs using three different methods: pins 2, 3 and 4 on the Tortoises; using the metal rods hanging down under the Caboose Industries manual throws; and finally the "safety pin and two nails" that my dad used to use for turnouts.
This last was a real coup... I wasn't sure it would work. My dad didn't buy expensive track stuff, so when he put in a turnout, he used a safety pin to throw the bar and two nails to hold it in one position or the other. When I don't have a Tortoise handy or a Caboose throw, I just put a safety pin in like my dad would. Doesn't look prototype but I haven't even started on scenery yet and probably won't for another year. But I got tired of my engines stopping midfrog, so I ran a wire from each nail to one of the rails (get 'em right or they'll short) and another wire from the screw holding the safety pin back to the frog, which now often has a handy metal tab at the side of the tie. Presto! When you throw the turnout, the polarity changes. I can add a Tortoise someday when I'm not so skint.
-Matt
Returning to model railroading after 40 years and taking unconscionable liberties with the SP&S, Northern Pacific and Great Northern roads in the '40s and '50s.
Matt - Well that is certainly creative! I must ask - from the picture it looks like the tension of the safety pin keeps the points against the rail but I can't see how there would be tension to keep the points on the opposite rail if the switch was thrown. Could you kindly explain?
Thanks,
charles
AblebakercharlieI can't see how there would be tension to keep the points on the opposite rail if the switch was thrown. Could you kindly explain?
LastspikemikeWalthers makes a double curved turnout with a tabbed metal frog in the size you're looking for
crossthedog The safety pin applies force in both directions, both when you close it (compression) and when you open it (tension).
Got it. I didn't see in the picture that the pin could be closed. I thought that was a bit of solder instead of the "safety" part.
AblebakercharlieGot it. I didn't see in the picture that the pin could be closed. I thought that was a bit of solder instead of the "safety" part.
The safety pin never actually closes -- at least not "upon itself" the way it does in its commercially intended use -- and in fact in my previous photo, the pin is actually as closed as it ever will be. The turnout is in "through" or "main" position (whatever we call "straight" on a curved turnout). To diverge, I would grab the safety pin by its head (as you say, the "safety part") and move it away from the track and lodge it behind the outer nail.
Here's a better view showing the pin head, now in the divergent setting. Plenty of tension to keep the point snug against the rail.
Sincere apologies to the OP if all this is "divergent" from his purposes in posting.
Okay - now I really think I got it. Thanks for the explanation!
p.s. sorry too, OP!
Peco makes a code 100 curved turnout with a metal frog (electrfrog), since the OP asked. But never mind.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
DigitalGriffinBy a curved turnout, I don't mean a double curve, but a turnout you can put in place of a 30 degree 18R sectional track.
crossthedogI could be wrong but I think the OP is looking NOT for a curved turnout per se but a turnout in which the divergent track continues to curve at the same radius.
Matt, a couple of questions, but first I add my compliments:
Did you 'dress' the stock rails to keep the points nice 'n close, or is that how the turnout was assembled? The stock rails look filed, indented, to get the points well inside the flanges' paths (à la Fast Tracks method).
Do you hide, or HOW do you hide that apparatus so that you and observers don't see the workings?
selectorDid you 'dress' the stock rails to keep the points nice 'n close, or is that how the turnout was assembled? The stock rails look filed, indented, to get the points well inside the flanges' paths (à la Fast Tracks method). Do you hide, or HOW do you hide that apparatus so that you and observers don't see the workings?
I hope this all may be useful to the OP. The turnout in the photo is an Atlas 596 righthand curved turnout and it came with the stock rails narrowed like that. I didn't do any filing. Even so, I have a Roundhouse caboose that trips over that width change in the outer rail when the point is away from it.
I don't hide the apparatus, and I won't until such time as my scenery skills reach the level where I can photograph my layout like Kevin P. or Doc Wayne or any of the rest of you guys and have the images look convincing. I won't have to worry for a while. I suppose you could attach the pin to a long intermediate bar and operate it from the side of the layout, put a pancake house over top of it with a removable roof?
Compliments should go to my dad, Willard. I always figured he saw this idea, minus wiring, in Model Railroader somewhere, but it's possible he just thought it up. He was a genius. For my part, I was studying diagrams in Paul Mallery's Atlas wiring book and noticed that the schematic for frog-wiring might be realized via my dad's home-style throws. Tried it. It worked.
To LastSpikeMike's point, I don't really know how it works either. I just know (from experience, cuz my engines stopped) that a live frog in DC requires a polarity change at the points end when you throw the bar. That's all that the Tortoise is doing inside itself with the 2, 3, and 4 posts, and that's all that's happening with the pendant rods when you throw a Caboose Industries manual throw. So the Modified Willard Pin Throw replicates that schematic.
Again, if this is not helpful to OP I am truly sorry for blathering.
I think the PECO double curved turnout in question with the insulated frog has < R18, hence the derailment.I also needed a straight curved turnout #4.5 for another section of the layout with a live frog. I'm not even sure fasttracks has those. 4.5 yes, curved past the frog, no.I'll figure something out, even if I have to rip up half the table. Thanks all.
The old section of my layout was Code 100. It was mostly Atlas snap-track, and I had learned many years ago not to trust the points on the curved side of Atlas turnouts. I had a few Peco turnouts, driven by Peco under-table switch machines. These proved to be so solid and reliable that I used a couple more for mainline turnouts that needed to reliably handle the curved path at high speed. I never had a problem with those points.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
You can modify a regular turnout by cutting out the web on turnout ties, had to do that on my old layout on one switch.
As a quick and easy solution you could try using whatever plastic frogged turnout you like and, if you're getting stalling issues at the frog, then power the frog with a layer of conductive tape.
I have a roll of copper tape I use for EMI shielding sensitive circuits. It feels reasonably robust but is only about 0.2mm thick. Being copper, it is easy to solder to, though the colour wouldn't match rails very well. Aluminum tape would match better and is also cheap and readily available, but you can't solder to it, so you'd have to rig up a mechanical connection.
DigitalGriffinI even tried "lifting" the points with a shim under the throwbar so it be less likely to drive over them. 4 axel diesels and non lead truck steam are not an issue.
I found a tip that uses a narrow strip of plastic window glazing CA'ed on top of a tie to lift the points (and it also creates a little drag to prevent wheels from picking the points).
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
This one from Peco is 17.2" radius, and not a hot frog. https://peco-uk.com/collections/track/products/turnout-2nd-radius-left-hand
Likewise, Hornby has a 17.2" radius that does have a metal frog that can be powered. Can't find the vendor's page for it. But here is one on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/294814505490
Edit - Found the manufacture's site. When dealing with Hornby make certain you are looking at the 2 rail track rather than the 3 rail for Marklin trains.
https://uk.hornby.com/products/r8072-left-hand-point-x-1-blister-pk-ht8302