Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Fascia - Before or after scenery?

6745 views
30 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March 2012
  • 1,148 posts
Posted by PC101 on Saturday, March 11, 2023 9:24 PM

wvgca

i ran my fascia before scenery  gave me the opportunity to run the scenery  right to the edge of the fascia, which i left maybe 3/8 inch higher than the layout

 

Likewise I have installed my fascia before the scenery. Knowing were rises in the terrain/landform above the rail head will be, I mostly start with having the top of my fascia 3'' above the rail head or flat land surface. The bottom of the fascia sections are in line. The top edge will then be cut wavy or not to become the top of the highest knowned terrain along the aisle/walkway giving me 3'' to nothing (were rails, parking lots and roads are close to the edge) in waste.

Sheet styrofoam/blue board will be layed in and shaved/hot wired down to the top of the fascia. I model a Northeastern railroad, not to much is flat except maybe rail yards and towns.The top of the fascia will be cut lower then the railhead as needed for lowland, hollows, gullys and waterways (variation in the contour like the Bear mentioned in his above post).

Where the right of way bores though the mountains (around the wall layout) then the fascia will go halfway up to the top of that mountain. I fill in scenery from the fascia up to the mountain top.The mountains are not too tall 18'' to 24'' above the rail head.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 309 posts
Posted by AEP528 on Saturday, March 11, 2023 2:25 PM

SeeYou190

 

 
hbgatsf
Chooch still offers flexible walls; I got the Steel Sea Wall back in the fall and it is still availble as well as some other patterns.  Are you saying that the stone pattern you have is not available or that they have changed the "peel and stick" adhesive?

 

OK, I might have heard wrong about this. I was under the impression that Chooch had gone out of business.

Their website and official eBay store are gone, or at least I cannot find them.

However, their products still have 48 items in stock at Model Train Stuff, and Walthers featured them in last month's flyer.

This announcement was on this forum three years ago.

I guess we need some clarification.

-Kevin

 

https://www.walthers.com/chooch_enterprises

  • Member since
    August 2022
  • From: New England (Cape Cod)
  • 128 posts
Posted by DonRicardo on Saturday, March 11, 2023 2:04 PM

Don't forget about reach while figuring the fascia, lest it get in the way of subsequent alterations or repairs.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, March 11, 2023 9:30 AM

hbgatsf
Chooch still offers flexible walls; I got the Steel Sea Wall back in the fall and it is still availble as well as some other patterns.  Are you saying that the stone pattern you have is not available or that they have changed the "peel and stick" adhesive?

OK, I might have heard wrong about this. I was under the impression that Chooch had gone out of business.

Their website and official eBay store are gone, or at least I cannot find them.

However, their products still have 48 items in stock at Model Train Stuff, and Walthers featured them in last month's flyer.

This announcement was on this forum three years ago.

I guess we need some clarification.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    April 2021
  • From: saskabush
  • 127 posts
Posted by wvgca on Saturday, March 11, 2023 7:03 AM

i ran my fascia before scenery  gave me the opportunity to run the scenery  right to the edge of the fascia, which i left maybe 3/8 inch higher than the layout

  • Member since
    February 2017
  • From: Harrisburg, PA
  • 641 posts
Posted by hbgatsf on Saturday, March 11, 2023 6:22 AM

SeeYou190

 

 
hbgatsf
Kevin - What product is the stone wall?

 

The stone wall is a "peel-and-stick" flexible by Chooch. It is not made any longer.

The peel and stick did not work at all, and I had to take it out and reglue it with several clamps to keep it in place.

Chooch still offers flexible walls; I got the Steel Sea Wall back in the fall and it is still availble as well as some other patterns.  Are you saying that the stone pattern you have is not available or that they have changed the "peel and stick" adhesive?

I found some older threads after I got the walls that discussed they problems with getting them to stick.  Sigh  I haven't installed mine yet but have been thinking about how to do it as I won't have the option of hiding problems with foliage.  I asked about your scene because in the construction picture it looked higher than the 3.5" of the Chooch walls.  

Rick

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,623 posts
Posted by rrebell on Thursday, March 9, 2023 10:06 AM

The Milwaukee Road Warrior

 

 
rrebell

Still beleive it easier to do facia last. It is much easier to get the scenery right and then hold the board up to it and mark the back and jig saw exactly all the ups and downs of the scenery.

 

 

 

I am remembering right that you build on homasote?  I would guess that would resist the kind of damage I'm talking about much better than foam.  Or do you use foam as well?  Just curious.

 

Never saw the question but will answer now as I just ran across this thread. I run my layout on 2" foam only over 1x4 framing. Layout has been finished almost a year now and no issues. In fact the only two issues I had before were my fault and this was years ago now, one was I shorted the layout during the building stage (left a tool on some track) and this made me a few repairs to the trackwork in one area. The other was not getting the radius right in two spots, new equipment found these for me, if I had to do again I would do one notch above whatever I desided on like 18" radius would be 19" etc.  Also of note the sheen I picked for the facia was perfect (eggshell).

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:45 AM

hbgatsf
Kevin - What product is the stone wall?

The stone wall is a "peel-and-stick" flexible by Chooch. It is not made any longer.

The peel and stick did not work at all, and I had to take it out and reglue it with several clamps to keep it in place.

In the end, the edges all kept trying to curl up no matter what I did. I just hid the problems with a lot of shrubbery.

The end result was OK

-Photograph by Kevin Parson

I would not suggest this product. The headaches were not worth it.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    February 2017
  • From: Harrisburg, PA
  • 641 posts
Posted by hbgatsf on Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:30 AM

SeeYou190

 

 
Aralai
I think it may be easier to mount the fascia now so I can scenic right up to it.

 

That is how I do it.

-Kevin

 

Kevin -

What product is the stone wall?

Rick

  • Member since
    November 2019
  • 402 posts
Posted by The Milwaukee Road Warrior on Sunday, November 7, 2021 6:48 PM

rrebell

Still beleive it easier to do facia last. It is much easier to get the scenery right and then hold the board up to it and mark the back and jig saw exactly all the ups and downs of the scenery.

 

I am remembering right that you build on homasote?  I would guess that would resist the kind of damage I'm talking about much better than foam.  Or do you use foam as well?  Just curious.

Andy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Milwaukee native modeling the Milwaukee Road in 1950's Milwaukee.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/196857529@N03/

  • Member since
    February 2017
  • From: Harrisburg, PA
  • 641 posts
Posted by hbgatsf on Sunday, November 7, 2021 7:19 AM

cowman

 

One thingI didn't do was to paint the masonite.  I didn't realize it would swell so much, so it got a bit wavy..  Seal it with a clear sealer or paint to keep it where you planned on having it.

If you have enough moisture (or humidity) for this to be a problem, wouldn't you need to seal both sides?

Rick

Rick

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,623 posts
Posted by rrebell on Sunday, November 7, 2021 1:38 AM

Still beleive it easier to do facia last. It is much easier to get the scenery right and then hold the board up to it and mark the back and jig saw exactly all the ups and downs of the scenery.

  • Member since
    November 2019
  • 402 posts
Posted by The Milwaukee Road Warrior on Saturday, November 6, 2021 8:38 PM

For me, fascia is going on first because I have a foam base on plywood and I learned early on that as I leaned over to do various things further towards the back of my layout, my belt buckle did damage to the exposed edge of the foam.  Grrr.  

I stopped wearing belts in the layout room and started installing my masonite.

And rule #1 of the layout area subsequently became 'no belts.'

Andy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Milwaukee native modeling the Milwaukee Road in 1950's Milwaukee.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/196857529@N03/

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Canada
  • 1,284 posts
Posted by wickman on Monday, November 1, 2021 10:09 PM

Yep add fascia before scenery , it shapes the scenery perimeters especially in the corners.Fascia

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 2,342 posts
Posted by kasskaboose on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 8:39 PM

Count me in for adding fascia BEFORE most of the scenery.  I'd do the scenery you can't reach first and then add the fascia as you move closer to the front.  This way, you can fill any gaps between the fascia and scenery.  I addressed the gap using tape and then painting it to provide some binding for the ground foam.

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 10:29 AM

mobilman44
...The "covering" behind the layout has been called - in my experience - the "backdrop". With that settled, I have always done the backdrop first, and worked the layout scenery into it....

 

I agree.  I drywalled the entire layout room using 1/2" board, but at each of the room's ten corners used 3/8" drywall, usually to fit the 16" spacing of the studs.  Once the layout's benchwork was in place I coved all of the room's corners using 1/8" Masonite. 

Here's a drawing of how it was done...

To add the Masonite, I use a tape measure to roughly measure the curve that will be formed, then cut the Masonite an inch-or-so longer.  To install it, I simply butt one edge of the Masonite against one edge of the 1/2" drywall, then push the centre of the Masonite towards the corner until the other edge pops into place.  You can add screws at those edges (in many cases, they're not necessary) then apply some drywall mud (the green area in the drawing) and joint tape (the red line).  Once it hardens, sand as usual, then paint appropriately.

There are a couple of photos in my earlier post, showing both a coved inside corner and an outside one.

Wayne

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Newmarket, ON Canada
  • 334 posts
Posted by Aralai on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 9:31 AM

doctorwayne

I hope there's some usefulness in the photos.

Wayne

Definitely Wayne - appreciate you taking the time to post them all!

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
  • 5,444 posts
Posted by mobilman44 on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 5:14 AM

In regards to layouts, the term "fascia", applies to the covering of the benchwork on the outside edges of the layout.  The "covering" behind the layout has been called - in my experience - the "backdrop".   

With that settled, I have always done the backdrop first, and worked the layout scenery into it.  

When doing the benchwork, I did so with the idea of making it easier to apply a fascia to the front edges.  The fascia was applied after the benchwork was complete.

That worked well for me, but that is not to say there aren't alternatives that will work for you.

 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: Canada, eh?
  • 13,375 posts
Posted by doctorwayne on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 1:59 AM

Aralai
1. Recommended height of Fascia - pros and cons

That depends on how you build the layout, and the material that you use...mine vary from 6" to just a bit over 31".

Aralai
2. When to do it - before or after scenery?

Because most of my scenery is Durabond 90 patching plaster over aluminum screen, the fascia serves as the "edge of the layout world".

A few photos (click on them for a larger view)...

This is the entrance to my layout room...

...the fascia to the right is 6" on both the lower level and the upper, as is the lower one to the left.  The upper one on the left is 10" deep, mainly to hide the under-mounted fluorescent lights, which illuminate the lower level.  When the photo was taken, the partial upper level was still under construction.

Here's a sketch of the original layout...

...the area in grey denotes where a partial upper level was later added, while some of the track that passes through South Cayuga loops around over the Speed River and climbs a steady 2.8% grade around the peninsula.  Until the partial upper level was added, that was the end-of-track on the grade.

These photos show the fascia (1/8" Masonite) at Dunnville.  It's about 10" high, as I needed to vary the layout height to accommodate the various grades, most of which are on curves...

Here's the fascia at South Cayuga, about 13" high (all of the under-layout support is at the same height, with open grid framework atop it.  The track, in most places, is on cut-out 3/4" plywood roadbed, supported by risers, hence the need for varying heights on the fascia...

In this photo, South Cayuga is out of view to the left, with what will eventually be the Speed River in the distance...

The downbound bridge leads to a tunnel under the scenery, which goes to Elfrida, which is on the lower level.  The other bridge is climbing on the track which is on the peninsula, and you can see how the fascia increases in height as it nears the position of the camera.

This view shows how the height increases and how the risers support both the track and attachment of the Masonite...

Here, the track (and fascia) is nearing the top of the grade, and is about 26" high at the right of the photo...

This photo shows where the grade ended, before the partial upper level was built...

This view shows the highest part of the fascia, at left, while the partial upper level was still under construction...

Here's a look with the upper level in place, with all fascia installed.  While the track on all levels is operational, there's a lot of scenery and structures yet to be added.

  
The layout's main level is operated while walking around accompanying the train, and that includes the partial upper level, too.  The layout beneath the upper level is operated while sitting on a rolling office chair.

As you can see, I used more Masonite to cover the benchwork which supports the layout.  Some of it is in the form of sliding doors, while the rest is done as lift-off panels.  That hides a lot of household stuff, but is easy to access when necessary.

I also used Masonite to "cove" the layout room's 10 corners, which helps to give the scenery more continuity than ordinary square corners....

Here's the same corner, before the upper level was added...

Where there are "water features", I generally cut the fascia down to what I want the water's level to be...

I'll eventually paint the fascia, but it will have to wait until the upper level is fully sceniced.

I hope there's some usefulness in the photos.

Wayne

 

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Newmarket, ON Canada
  • 334 posts
Posted by Aralai on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 11:56 PM

Appreciate all the replies.

  • Member since
    January 2017
  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
  • 18,255 posts
Posted by SeeYou190 on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 10:55 PM

Aralai
I think it may be easier to mount the fascia now so I can scenic right up to it.

That is how I do it.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,734 posts
Posted by maxman on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 7:23 PM

David Popp is currently doing an N scale layout and he is installing the fascia first.  He is adjusting the height of the fascia to suit the planned scenery.  The only problem I see with this idea is that one needs to have a scenery plan.

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Flyover Country
  • 5,496 posts
Posted by York1 on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 7:13 PM

This is off topic, but something I learned as I built my first layout four years ago.

I had installed Masonite fascia all around the layout.  I also needed to do some wiring, so I was working under the table.

Brother Lion posted that on his subway layout, all his wiring is connected behind the fascia.  That way, you can sit in a chair and do all the work.

I took the fascia off, and made the connections like Lion suggested.  I can't tell you how much this made my wiring easier to do.

Now, as I do lighting for buildings or more wiring, I just unscrew the fascia, grab wires from under the table, and do all the connections while sitting in my chair:

York1 John       

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Rimrock, Arizona
  • 11,251 posts
Posted by SpaceMouse on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 7:02 PM

I have electric and mechanical switches that have to mount on the facia. I'm going to have to install the facia before the track is layed.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Central Vermont
  • 4,562 posts
Posted by cowman on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 6:58 PM

I did mine of masonite after the foam had been shaped to the basic landforms and followed the contours of the terrain.

Due to having some track very close to the edge, limited room around the edges (hit trains when you walk by), and smalll hands that like to touch, I also put up a plexiglass barrier about 6" higher than track level.  I spaced the facia out enough to slip the plexiglass  in behind it, so that it is easily removable.

One thingI didn't do was to paint the masonite.  I didn't realize it would swell so much, so it got a bit wavy..  Seal it with a clear sealer or paint to keep it where you planned on having it.

Good luck,

Richard

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,623 posts
Posted by rrebell on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 5:31 PM

I do basic scenery first, then cut the facia to match and then cover up the top of the masonite with final scenery such as turf etc.

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Newmarket, ON Canada
  • 334 posts
Posted by Aralai on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 4:34 PM

 

 
Aralai
I think it may be easier to mount the fascia now so I can scenic right up to it.

 

Thumbs UpThumbs Up

You can vary the height of the facia so to suit any variation in the contour lines you may wish to make.
Cheers, the BearSmile
 

 

Yes, I will definitely do that where the scenery dips a lot.

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: Newmarket, ON Canada
  • 334 posts
Posted by Aralai on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 4:33 PM

Pruitt

I put some of my fascia on before I added the scenery, and some after. It depends on which way works best for the particular area.

That actually makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

 

  • Member since
    February 2001
  • From: Wyoming, where men are men, and sheep are nervous!
  • 3,390 posts
Posted by Pruitt on Tuesday, October 19, 2021 4:11 PM

I put some of my fascia on before I added the scenery, and some after. It depends on which way works best for the particular area.

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!