Make Your Own Decals! - Anyone done this before?

[SilverSpike]

I have seen a few posts on this topic, but was wondering if anyone has used the decal paper for ink jet printers that Micro-Mark sells. I understand the issue with printing white lettering, but I don't think I'll be putting down a couple of hundred $$'s for an Alps printer.

[:)] Ryan

[Anonymous]

I havn't tried the micro mark stuff, but I have used the Testors decal paper and sealer with mixed results. The initial decal comes out ok, but is best used on a really flat, smooth surface, as it doesnt seem to snuggle down over details too well, and too much Solvaset will craze the decal film.

Here is a car I did with our club logo on it, not too shabby for a 1st attempt!

[SilverSpike]

Hey Karlb,

[:D][wow] Yea, not to shabby at all for a first attempt!

I like your web site too!

Thanks for sharing,

Ryan

[Jetrock]

The problem with using inkjet ink is that it isn't very dark and it is water-soluble, so sealing the surface with Decal Set is important.

Laser printers or photocopiers produce an output that is not water-soluble, but I found that they tend to flake if not sealed with Decal Set.

[cmrproducts]

Purchase an Epson printers that use the dura bright inks as this ink is OIL based. Solves the water problem.

BOB H Clarion, PA

[SilverSpike]

[8D] Thanks for the tip on ink selection, Bob!
I have an Epson Color printer so that part is taken care of, but who supplies the dura bright inks?

Ryan

[cmrproducts]

Ryan

The newer Epson all use the dura-bright inks. So if you have an older machine it may now be able to use the OIL based ink. In which case you may have to invest in a new machine.

My son worked a Staples and was able to test almost all of the machines.

BOB H Clarion, PA

[SilverSpike]

Bob,

I have an Epson Color InkJet 760 which is about 3 years old.

Thanks,

Ryan

[Anonymous]

I have a high resolution HP printer and have been working on this decal issue, too. I made a 1200 dpi Photoshop document to print from. So far, I've found that the print quality as far as detail is concerned, is great...as long as I print with dark or black ink. Lighter colors look fine on white paper, but aren't opaque enough to cover dark paint. I'll have to design a railroad color scheme that uses a light main color and dark lettering, all freelance, of course.

Good Luck, Everyone,
smyers

[SilverSpike]

smyers,

Thanks for the info on the HP printer! I have an old HP LaserJet 4 but is has been acting up lately with frequent paper jams. What model HP printer are you using?

Thanks,

Ryan

[Anonymous]

Ryan,

I'm at the office now, but I'll post the details for you when I get home in a few hours.

Best,
smyers

[SilverSpike]

smyers,

[:D] I look forward to the details!

Thanks,

Ryan

[Anonymous]

Well, Ryan, the little box on my PC says "HP Photosmart 7150 series". Mine is probably a low end model as it lacks the slot for a digital camera memory card and an LCD preview screen. It takes a 57 color cartridge and a 56 or 58 black. It's USB connected. It'll do 4800x1200 dpi. I'm amazed at the quality of detail of even the smallest text I've done. That would be some of the warning data like "Fuel Cut Off" or "Danger 600 Volts" etc. Every letter has crisp, clear serifs even though I need a magnifier to see them! Maybe not Microscale quality but certainly adequate for the non-contest modeler, especially under a coat of weathering. The ink appears to be oil-based as it takes a while to dry and has that "texture" to it. I ran a 20 year old sheet of decal paper through it with no problems.

The other aspect of this decal thing is the source file and application. I set up a 1200 dpi document using Photoshop to print from. Any good image editor will work as you can adjust the resolution of the file. I don't know if a word proccessor will do that. A 1200 dpi image creates a huge file that takes some time to print and modify, but the results are worth it. It won't do as well from lower rez files. Until I started using high rez documents to begin with, my print-outs were Joe Average, even with the photo printer.

Of course, you can't print white, though you can knock white out of another color with a paint program and print on white paper . And the light colors are not opaque enough to cover dark paint on a model. But for dark or black letters and graphics the potential is high. This weekend, I hope to actually use some of my test shots as decals after clear coating them. I hope it works! The PC has great potential especially for free-lancers. I've hated lining up dozens of teeny little letters on the hood of a diesel!

Good Luck,
smyers

[Anonymous]

We have a LEXMARK 5200 series any thoughts on this, oh and by the
way my diesels ARE harbor blue?

[SilverSpike]

smyers,

Those photo color printers are great for sure! I also have a third printer; it is a Canon i960 that specializes in photo quality image printing with photo paper. I suppose a little trial and error with all three of my printers will be the true test. I have a version of MGI Photo Suite that may allow the ability to increase the dpi, still need to check into that issue. Thanks for the helpful clues and tips, you have pointed me in the right direction.

- Ryan

[Anonymous]

Ryan,

I made a whole bunch of decals.....

After choosing my road name, I tried out a bunch of different fonts and layouts in MS Word. After I found what I wanted, I set up my type in a word file and emailed it to a friend with an ALPS printer. In a short amount of time he made me many decals. My suggestion: Find some one with an ALPS printer and make a deal.

[cmrproducts]

Ryan

The Epson printer that we are using are the C80 and the RX500. The last one has 6 color tanks but we have not had time to really get into using this machine.

Now to do white, we use the white decal paper and just print the body color around the letters. It has worked out ok but we need access to a pantone chart so we can color match the colors to the unit body color so the decals blend in better. We have the CR blue down pat!

We have made road signs, route signs, police decals, Pennzoil decals, Conrail, Pittsburgh & Shawmut RR and a lot of special industry decals for various freight cars.

The system works but I wi***here was a way to double print the color as the lighter colors (Yelloe, Orange) tend to be somewhat translucent.

BOB H Clarion, PA

[SilverSpike]

Hey Guy, thanks for the input. Hum, and ALPS printer deal! Good option, and I may try that as a plan B, anyone out there in the New Orleans, LA area have an ALPS printer available for decal time? And I was wondering if the decals would come out using MS Word. What font and font size do you use for HO scale lettering?

Bob, my Canon printer has the 6 color tanks as well, I have printed transparancies on it and the lighter colors also have a hard time showing up. I wonder if you can bold or increase the intensity of the lighter colors for more ink, would that work?

Thanks,

Ryan[:D]

[Anonymous]

Ooops;
Spraying my test shots with clear Krylon acrylic enamel, as recommended by one decal paper vendor, caused many letters to bleed and run, and had the same effect as spraying weathering chalk with a clear overcoat. The colors "thinned", becoming even more translucent, even solid black.

Oh well, back to square one.

Best,
smyers

[SilverSpike]

smyers,

Oh no, not good!
I thought that stuff was supposed to make the ink set up. Good luck, I will be testing the same as soon as my product get in.

Thanks for the update!

- Ryan[:(]

[Anonymous]

Ryan;

Man, what a heartache!! I spent hours building my lettering in Photoshop only to encounter this issue. I tried putting a sample in water just for jollies, the ink numbers evaporated into the water!! The Krylon does help the old decal paper to hold together, but the ink jet letters simply don't work. I'm doing something wrong, obviously. Maybe an experienced modeller, out there, can help us out.

Like you, I can't spend $200+ for an ALPS printer just for a half dozen decal sheets, at the most. Luckily, I do have a backup lettering plan, but I'd sure like to see this homemade inkjet decal system work!

Best Regards,
smyers

[SilverSpike]

Yep, I feel for you! I am still in the gathering supplies stage. So, I will keep you posted after my first attempts. I just saw a separate post on the decal topic for vendors that make custom decals..... if all else fails!

Good luck!

- Ryan

[cmrproducts]

Any printer using water based inks tends to have this problem. So trying to do your own decals is a hit or miss proposition. Very few have reported much success with the water based inks for decal printing.

The only printers that have fewer problems are the Dry-Ink (ALPS) and the oil based inks (Epson).

BOB H Clarion, PA

[Anonymous]

Ryan,

There are actually several rather flexible tools in word for manipulatting font sizes etc....Look in the format - font menu. You can change point size, spacing, etc to get what you want...I don't remevber sizes exactly, I just printerd out a bunch on paper and compared them to stuff on rolling stock and took it from there... I set up car and loco numbers on a page so that I would'nt have to piece together decals to get different numbers...for example you might have 411234, 411235 etc rather than a bunch of 1's, 2's 3's etc that you have to cut out and put together like many decal companies do...

The decals came out very sharp right from the word file.....

[Anonymous]

Yep, the HP ink is "an aqueous ink solution", according to their MSDS, useless for making decals. You'd be better off with an oil-based Epson, I think, if you're just starting out. I can't buy another printer just to make a few decals so I'm stuck.

Time for plan B!

Good Luck, Guys,
smyers

[SilverSpike]

Guy,

I was actually hoping to use Word as my decal software application for printing them out, especially since I already have it installed. Thanks for the tip on trying out the printed test pages with fonts next to existing rolling stock, I will have to do that and test the various sizes and fonts as you said.

On a side note, I just looked at Adobe Photoshop and the best deal for it is around $350.00, I could buy a heck of a lot of ready-made decals for that price. I know it is a great program, but I would not have any other use for it. So, I will absolutely use Word first.

Also, I checked out your layout on the weblink, nice job! In the first photo of the junk yard, did you scratch build the fences?

Thanks,

Ryan

[Anonymous]

Ryan,

The fences are scratchbuilt from scale lumber that has been weathered with alcohol and shoe dye. The stock cars in the long shot are weathered with Bragdon chalks..

[SilverSpike]

Excellent work! Thanks for the update on the scale lumber and weathering. I just received some Bragdon weather system stuff, and looking forward to trying it out too.

- Ryan

[Anonymous]

Ryan,

I have used an ALPS MD1000 for some years but recently decided to try inkjet decal paper on my Canon MP700.

On Testors white injet decal paper as a test I printed a UP shield and Cushioned Load logo - both these have white backgrounds. The decals went onto an 'O' scale container which had been painted with gloss Tamiya Chrome Yellow

Have to say I was agreeably suprised at how well both decals came out.

Only 4 warnings

1. I think from memory the instructions said use ordinary print setting. Even though the Canon has 2 picolitre print capability I had to use a high quality print setting or the decal came out patchy.

2. Make sure the decal is thoroughly dry (I use my wifes hairdryer). before spraying decal bonder

3. Decal must be horizontal, (laying flat on workbench) before LIGHTLY spraying Testors Decal Bonder. (My first attempt had the decal vertical - the ink ran). To ensure that water did not get to the print I sprayed bonder twice -2 once north-south once east-west.

4. Testors say that decal should only be in water for 5 seconds the downside is that you do not get much time to move the decal around on the car.

I used MicroSol on one side of the container and plain water on the other. The MicroSol crinkled the decal initially but after about 3 hours it smoothed out.

In both cases (MicroSol one side - water the other) the decal snuggled down onto the container ribs. In fact unlike Carlb my decal grabbed really hard - probably because I only left the decal in the water for the 5 seconds advised by Testor.

As a last comment the colours appear to match the original 'O'scale decal (source unknown) particularly in respect of the orange, reds and blues.

Even though the ALPS is old technology I would still use it over the inkjet because of its ability to layer colours and print white + and this is a big plus, you do not have to dry the and protect the decal before placing on the car.

regards

John L

[SilverSpike]

John L,

Great tips on printing and applying the decals! [:D]

On warning #2 you mentioned "Make sure the decal is thoroughly dry", I am assuming you mean that after printing the decal you should let the paper sit on a level flat surface and allow it to fully dry before coating with the bonder spray. Am I correct in this assumption?

Thanks again,

Ryan