Track fiddlerI'm going to look for the unscented version at the dollar store so my layout doesn't smell like a beauty parlor again
I use unscented Finesse Superior Hold in the pump-type applicator. It gives better control than the spray-can version, and when it gets down to a level where it's no longer picking up the liquid, simply dump the remainder into a new pump container - no waste at all. I bought a couple dozen sprayers a few years ago, and they still work well, as does the product within.
Wayne
The tree is over two weeks out with the trash David. It's okay as I always look at a failure as a learning experience. One can never refine their modeling skills without a little trial and error.
Thanks for the suggestions by the way. I had completely forgot about the hairspray trick my brother used a lot and worked very well with scenery modeling when we were kids
I'm going to look for the unscented version at the dollar store so my layout doesn't smell like a beauty parlor again
This time around no perfume smell but simulated aerosol diesel spray would be good Creosote fragrance under the wooden bridges
Now there's an idea for an entrepreneur if there is still a sizable enough market for it. With Woodland Scenic's, ...Railroad Fragrance
A little spray here, a little spray there. Now us old guys are not only happy seeing and hearing our trains, but now we can smell our Model Railroad
Never underestimate the six senses to make things a little more fun!
TF
TF Looking at the tree you made. You say the stem broke. Would the bit left make a small tree? Bunch it into (successful) others. Not all trees are big. Failing that; a fallen tree is good and very rarely modeled.
David
To the world you are someone. To someone you are the world
I cannot afford the luxury of a negative thought
Thanks David! It's always good to hear from my good old friend from across the pond!
Here is the sort of tree I'm aiming for all the way down on the end.
Whether I achieve that look or not is another thing but I will try
I always got a kick out of this picture because I did not realize until that day if you sneak up on a tree and he doesn't know you're looking or taking a picture, he will drop his limbs that he doesn't need anymore.
Zoom in and take a look for yourself. The tree was dropping his limbs because he didn't think anyone was looking
Maybe he just wanted a more distinctive refined shape?
It wasn't windy that day and it was the darndest thing I've ever seen in my life and my Judy seen it too!
TF Thank you for the nice compliment. What I do is just a quick and very cheap way of doing scenery. Not perfect, but I like it.
As for yourself, I like the idea of trying a new way. Okay it wasn't successful but maybe next time.
Another way. Pinching the idea from a modeler over here. Why not get the ends off a fir tree (if possible). Spray the pine needles with cheap hairspray. Emphasising cheap - cheaper the better. Drill a hole the size of the stem and glue in place. Real fir trees costing next to nothing (if they are nearby).
I've always admired David's (Northbrit) modeling scenes he does over there across the pond. And also the splash of color he does with the plastic synthetic foliage he adds to his layout. I can always appreciate unique modeling techniques that are different from everyone else's.
So his modeling techniques got me thinking that I wanted to try something like he does and make my own pine trees.
I only have two types of pine trees scratch built that I am happy with and need to find a third.
I got some foliage at Michaels and took a bamboo skewer and drilled really small holes to glue the trimmings in.
Then painted the trunk and branches with raw umber.
This was at a critical point as the trees do not look good until they are spray-painted and flocked but I never got to that point because the stem was too brittle and broke because all the holes made it too weak. I actually wanted to drill more.
I think I'm going to pick this experiment back up with some round styrene because styrene solvent does work with the foliage glued to styrene. Styrene is not brittle and will not break in half like the wood did.
I'll have to see what happens maybe this weekend.
PH
Post Hog!
I'm still looking for pictures of my feeble attempt of an Appalachian Pine experiment but here's some information and what I believe you're talking about with the Appalachian Pine being called a Table Pine, at least in this article.
https://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/misc/ag_654/volume_1/pinus/pungens.htm#:~:text=Table%20Mountain%20pine%2C%20an%20Appalachian,17%2C29%2C31).
A bit disappointed that big long article did not mention anything about the color of the tree with exception of its cones are purple but I'm still looking
Does tree color (colour) (couleur) matter?
Of course it does! But not really. It depends on which tree you're talking about.
I have seen hot pink, fuchsia ones and even white trees when the apple blossoms are blooming in the spring, Beautiful!
It depends on what you're doing or trying to achieve but a tree can be any color from orange to gold or peach and bright red in the fall. I've even seen purple ones but I just don't remember where?
I suppose when you're talking a coniferous tree such as Appalachian Pines, they can only be so many colors.
The Black Hills in South Dakota when the sun is on the other side of the hill shadowing the trees, the trees look black. I have seen this first hand only about a month ago and only then I realized why they are called the Black Hills. Outside of the National Park they have already cut down the trees at an alarming rate so don't think of for a minute that these trees don't matter because they do!
I don't understand for a moment why they keep mowing them down like they're doing to the rainforest when these trees give us all the oxygen we need???
Dr. Seuss tried to help us all so many years ago with The Lorax book.
A while back I did take the liberty to try the creation of an Appalachian Pine tree experiment. The first experiment was a failure but I plan to resume the experiment and still work on the area where the experiment went wrong. I'm not one to give up easily.
I'll go look for pictures of the failure and post it. When I resume the project I'll post the updates.
Thanks Matt! I love tree threads!
WPA All I know is since returning to the hobby I have never paid so much attention to tree and canopy cover and patterns in the real world. I started using the puff ball method laid out in the MRR Virginian series and reversed colors every now and then and filtered in some using Senic Express fine green. I mixed in some Super trees and some WS premade foliage on hill tops. I was stressed at first about color then eased into it. Just get started and it will work out. 9C4580CB-99A0-48CA-BBFA-8C20418A8577
All I know is since returning to the hobby I have never paid so much attention to tree and canopy cover and patterns in the real world. I started using the puff ball method laid out in the MRR Virginian series and reversed colors every now and then and filtered in some using Senic Express fine green. I mixed in some Super trees and some WS premade foliage on hill tops. I was stressed at first about color then eased into it. Just get started and it will work out. 9C4580CB-99A0-48CA-BBFA-8C20418A8577
I've found that using puffball trees for the background canopy fronted by either Super Trees or those made with WS armatures produces a very convincing effect. I recently tried the Pelle Soeberg method of gluing pieces of Super Trees to the WS armatures and then adding the foliage. It does produce outstanding trees but it is labor intensive. I found myself spending about a half hour per tree. I might reduce that if I did it more often but I can't see doing it on a large scale. It is worth the effort for foreground trees.
John-NYBW I can't find a convenient source for Noch products. My LHS stocks WS. Amazon offers a meager selection. The only listing for leaf material is Spring Green which is not the shade I want. On ebay, the selection is either for small packages of leaf material or ordering from overseas with ridiculously high shipping costs. Over $43 from Germany on top of a $9 price tag. I got no hits for Noch on the Walthers catalog. I've bought Noch scenery products at train shows but have yet to see their leaf material. Just where does one go to find the Nock leaf products. It would be nice to be able to see it before I buy it.
I can't find a convenient source for Noch products. My LHS stocks WS. Amazon offers a meager selection. The only listing for leaf material is Spring Green which is not the shade I want. On ebay, the selection is either for small packages of leaf material or ordering from overseas with ridiculously high shipping costs. Over $43 from Germany on top of a $9 price tag. I got no hits for Noch on the Walthers catalog. I've bought Noch scenery products at train shows but have yet to see their leaf material. Just where does one go to find the Nock leaf products. It would be nice to be able to see it before I buy it.
Scenic Express carries Noch leaves
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
John,
I have always bought ALL the scenery material I can get at train shows. I have three 27 gallon totes full of scenery supplies.
Train shows are where I bought all my Noch leafy material.
I know that is not of much help.
Right now, the only option for most international shipping is Air Priority/Express service. Once the cargo ships and ports get unclogged, surface mail should become an option again, and shipping prices should go down.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
trainnut1250I really like the Noch leaves on the super trees in the foreground.
The Noch leaves do make a great looking tree for close-to-the-aisle scenery.
Matt,
In general, I would use several similar shades of green for your canopy. One shade will be too monochromatic. Definitely paint a backdrop to help convey a sense of depth and to fill in at the ground level so that the forest looks denser and more uniform.
I really like the Noch leaves on the super trees in the foreground. They come in a variety of shades and look great.
Have fun with the project,
Woodland Scenics and Scenic Express I believe offer the most choices in foliage color and their offerings vary far greater in hue than what we see in nature. I've found it is best to stick to two or at most three similar shades when creating a forest canopy. I think I read an article by Tony Koester a number of years ago in which he said he stuck to a single dark green shade for tree foliage because that's what he sees in nature, especially in distant hillsides. Individual foreground trees might see a little more variety, but using a lot of variance for a background forest canopy looks artificial to me, especially when modeling deciduous trees.
mthobbiesI'm curious, what color trees do you all use for Appalachian mountain scenery?
I can assure you, tree colour cannot be done incorrectly, as long as it is green.
Use the colours that look right to you.
I have been photographing nature and landscape for years. Trees, especially in Appalachia, come in all hues of green. The perceived colour will change with lighting conditions, atmospheric conditions, and time of day.
mthobbies John-NYBW From my observations, while tree shades do vary, the variances are subtle. In my early efforts at creating a forest canopy, I used a wide variety of light, medium, and dark greens and it produced what was to my eye, a very artificial look. Light greens are appropriate for spring but trees darken over the summer. Choose either light or dark green based on the time of year you are modeling. If you aren't modeling a specific time of the year, pick either light or dark and be consistent. Why do tree leaves turn darker in summer? - Discover Wildlife Yes I agree! This is exactly what I was thinking. Too much variety makes the hillside look forced, unrealistic, and out of scale. In order to achieve a realistic scale model, forrest canopies should be more or less the same color. Oftentimes, monotone scenery is more believable than creative scenery because too many different colors and random textures can be distracting from the overall believability of the scene. You want to eliminate the possibility for viewers to think subconsiously, "Hmm, something's not quite right here" The brain is easily pricked by anomolies. So by sticking to a limited color palette, as John-NYBW stated, you eliminate the possibility of your scenery looking too imaginative. Instead you end up with a realistic and believable replication of the patterns seen in the real world holistically. Just my opinion, Matt
John-NYBW From my observations, while tree shades do vary, the variances are subtle. In my early efforts at creating a forest canopy, I used a wide variety of light, medium, and dark greens and it produced what was to my eye, a very artificial look. Light greens are appropriate for spring but trees darken over the summer. Choose either light or dark green based on the time of year you are modeling. If you aren't modeling a specific time of the year, pick either light or dark and be consistent. Why do tree leaves turn darker in summer? - Discover Wildlife
From my observations, while tree shades do vary, the variances are subtle. In my early efforts at creating a forest canopy, I used a wide variety of light, medium, and dark greens and it produced what was to my eye, a very artificial look. Light greens are appropriate for spring but trees darken over the summer. Choose either light or dark green based on the time of year you are modeling. If you aren't modeling a specific time of the year, pick either light or dark and be consistent.
Why do tree leaves turn darker in summer? - Discover Wildlife
Yes I agree! This is exactly what I was thinking. Too much variety makes the hillside look forced, unrealistic, and out of scale.
In order to achieve a realistic scale model, forrest canopies should be more or less the same color. Oftentimes, monotone scenery is more believable than creative scenery because too many different colors and random textures can be distracting from the overall believability of the scene. You want to eliminate the possibility for viewers to think subconsiously, "Hmm, something's not quite right here" The brain is easily pricked by anomolies. So by sticking to a limited color palette, as John-NYBW stated, you eliminate the possibility of your scenery looking too imaginative. Instead you end up with a realistic and believable replication of the patterns seen in the real world holistically.
Just my opinion,
Matt
Of course if someone doesn't want to stick to a monochrome look to their forest canopies, they always have the option of modeling autumn which allows a large color pallete without sacrificing realism. That wasn't an option for me because one of the towns on my branchline is a lakeside summer resort town which would see much less passenger and freight business in the fall. Besides all my backdrops have dark green foliage.
mthobbies Thanks! I appreciate everyone's comments, but I have to dissagree. From my observations, nature is not "random" as some have suggested. When I look at a forrest canopy, especially if scaled for a model railroad, the hills are basically one color. Sure, up close in real life they may have different varriations, but when viewed from a distance (which is how it will appear on our model railroads) the trees are all the same color. I think using too many different colors would distract from the scale of our forrests. Notice how the trees themselves may be slightly different colors, but the hilside as a whole is basically one color. This is the kind of "scale color" I am trying to achieve. Matt
Thanks! I appreciate everyone's comments, but I have to dissagree. From my observations, nature is not "random" as some have suggested.
When I look at a forrest canopy, especially if scaled for a model railroad, the hills are basically one color. Sure, up close in real life they may have different varriations, but when viewed from a distance (which is how it will appear on our model railroads) the trees are all the same color.
I think using too many different colors would distract from the scale of our forrests.
Notice how the trees themselves may be slightly different colors, but the hilside as a whole is basically one color. This is the kind of "scale color" I am trying to achieve.
Your photo would be great for distant hills as a photographic backdrop, hills about one mile away or more. For those just past arm's length on your layout, we're talking 200 yard-plus. This is what you'd see:
I agree that it takes a good deal of craft to pull off a puffball tree canopy, but it can be done. You just need to do it a step at a time, jab in some bare 'snags' here and there as you see in a typical forest, and vary the size and flocking a bit.
A forest only looks isotropic and homogeneous at vast distances that can't be replicated on even the largest layouts.
mthobbiesNotice how the trees themselves may be slightly different colors, but the hilside as a whole is basically one color.
If that's what you're seeing, then it should be pretty simple to do.
I see a wide range of colours, from the oranges and yellows in the foreground, and the vibrant green, then all sorts of greens, interspersed with black and some areas with a brownish tinge. Beyond that, the blacks have change to blues then further away, to purples and mauves, and grey/blue in the distance.
A painted backdrop might be useful combined with your super trees.
Doughless If you notice in your pic, that shrub up close is lighter than what's in the background and has those variations we were explaining. If you're modeling more of a background where you would also need deeper benchwork, Dr. Wayne has used a technique using insulation I believe that gives that canopy look without the indivdual detail. (I think his last photo models the forest canopy in the background more than the actual "trees") And with backdrops, forests usually mean lots of humidity, so the farther back you model the more haze (gray) is in between you and the forest and the less light there is. That's probably more applicable to painting backdrops than modeling trees with ground foam though.
If you notice in your pic, that shrub up close is lighter than what's in the background and has those variations we were explaining.
If you're modeling more of a background where you would also need deeper benchwork, Dr. Wayne has used a technique using insulation I believe that gives that canopy look without the indivdual detail. (I think his last photo models the forest canopy in the background more than the actual "trees")
And with backdrops, forests usually mean lots of humidity, so the farther back you model the more haze (gray) is in between you and the forest and the less light there is.
That's probably more applicable to painting backdrops than modeling trees with ground foam though.
Hi Douglas. Yeah I'm modeling more of a forrest canopy, tree covered mountains. I thought about doing puffballs for my canopy, but I just don't think they're detailed enough for me. I'm definitely using Super Trees. It's only a 4x8 so I can use Super Trees exclusively without breaking the bank.
I plan on using lighter trees in the foreground, with darker and smaller trees towards the back.
Distance plays a part. When the question was about modeling trees and using ground foam, several to many actual trees stuck together, perhaps we were thinking about more foreground scenery. If you notice in your pic, that shrub up close is lighter than what's in the background and has those variations we were explaining.
- Douglas
Colors can vary so much - be it trees, rock formations, ground cover, water, concrete, and even the sky. And in modeling, about the only guide I agree with is that nothing in nature is shiny.
On my last two layouts, I used a variety of trees (from several mfg) with many shades of green and textures. IMO, this worked out very well, and gave a good representation of the "real world".
Mix them up, and I don't think you will be disappointed!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Just to add to the excellent replies already made.
Nature throws up many surprises. Like the title of the song '50 Shades of Green' answers many a question.
Even a field can be overrun with wildflowers
Nature rules even if a railroad is there
I agree with all of the comments above.
I would add that the colour of the trunk and big branches should also be taken into account. Most tree trunks are not brown. They are various shades of gray. Some lighter, most rather dark.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
You can't go wrong with the advice here about using variety of colors. I too use different types of trees and heights for the VA portion of the Appalachian mountains. Those are so pretty to look at; you can easily loose yourself at the majestic scenery.