I'm trying to estimate how much ballast I need to buy for my double mainline ho railroad. My estimate is there is about 375 feet of track total (not counting bridges and planned tunnels). All of it is on standard size cork roadbed. The Woodland Scenics ballast supposedly will cover 50cu in and they go for $10 each. I'm calculating that I would then need about 90 (32 oz shaker bottles) of this stuff to do the whole layout. Thats $900 bucks. This seems like a ridiculous amount of money for ballasting a model railroad.
Does one bottle of this stuff really only cover 50 cubic inches or does it really cover alot more or does anyone know of a cheaper method.
Never thought I'd be spending this kind of money for ballast and that don't cover the scenic cement I need (don't know how much of that stuff I'll need) and also plan on using the Tidy Track track painter (rust) to do the rails and that's another one I can't even estimate how many of those I'll need. There probably is a cheaper method for track painting like spray painting the track, but I'm uncomfortable doing anything that might interfere with train or turnout operation. I figure I can get away without painting the outside of the rails facing the backdrop and the inner rail that you would have a hard time seeing on the double track closest to the backdrop.
Appreciate any help/feedback.
Gary (Coastie71)
Coastie71The Woodland Scenics ballast supposedly will cover 50cu in
Hi Gary,
I think that you might be interpreting the coverage incorrectly. The large bottles contain 50 cubic inches. One cubic inch of ballast will cover much more than one linear inch of track because you are not applying the ballast 1" deep or anywhere close to that.
Exactly how much track 1 cubic inch of ballast will cover will vary depending on how wide and deep the ballast will be, but let's assume that the ballast will have a normal profile and is being applied over cork roadbed. That means that the ballast will be roughly 2" wide and will be an average of 1/8" deep (less between the ties and more outside of the rails). If you do the math, 2" x .125" = .25 cubic inches. One cubic inch divided by .25" = 4.0 linear inches. Multiply that by 50 cubic inches per bottle means that each bottle should cover 200 inches of track (16.6'). Your track is 375' divided by 16.6 = 22.6 bottles of ballast.
My math is probably suspect because there are so many variables, but I think you see my point. Twenty three bottles of ballast will still not be cheap, but they will certainly be less than the 90 bottles that you thought you might need.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Coastie71Never thought I'd be spending this kind of money for ballast and that don't cover the scenic cement I need
Dave is very correct. 50 cubic inches of ballast will cover many times over 50 inches of trackwork.
I would suggest you buy a small bag od the Woodland Scenics ballast and try it on an experimental track section if you have never used it before.
Some people find it very hard to work with. I prefer ballast made from real rock.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
From memory and looking at these pctures I doubt the average thickness would be even 1/16 inch.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
My layout is a double mainline, each track running 165 feet, so 330 feet of mainline track. I used Scenic Express real rock ballast. I needed 3.25 gallons of ballast. The total cost including tax and shipping was $217.58.
Your double mainline is 375 feet, so your total cost would be $247.25 , using my cost numbers.
Rich
Alton Junction
Coastie71I'm trying to estimate how much ballast I need to buy for my double mainline ho railroad. My estimate is there is about 375 feet of track total...
I've got about the same amount of track, I think, and didn't use more than 3 or 4 of those Woodland Scenics ballast cannisters, plus a couple equivalent-sized containers of real limestone ballast given to me by a friend. I also bought two 50lb. bags of crushed limestone (about five bucks apiece), and screened enough of it to complete the ballasting. Most track has ties that are thin enough that it doesn't take much ballast to fill the spaces between them, but I didn't scrimp on ballast where the trackside landforms call for heavier ballast applications...
Coastie71...also plan on using the Tidy Track track painter (rust) to do the rails and that's another one I can't even estimate how many of those I'll need. There probably is a cheaper method for track painting like spray painting the track, but I'm uncomfortable doing anything that might interfere with train or turnout operation....
I used two-and-a-half bottles of Pollyscale paint to brush-paint both sides of all rail on the layout, except that in the staging yards, which are not ballasted.The reason for painting the normally-unseen side of the rails on an around-the-room layout allows me to take photos with the camera on-layout. Sometimes it's simply to get a view that would otherwise not be possible, and on other occasions, the camera is facing the aisle.
Some camera-on-layout views...
Wayne
Home Depot 50 pound bag of washed sand, Quick-crete Play Sand cost me about $15 last summer, but I can't remember what the price was...say $20? That bag will last me a lifetime plus.
I would strongly urge you NOT TO use Woodland Scenics ballast unless you know for a fact that it is real rock pieces and not crushed walnut shells.
I used local beach sand, washed and cleared of magnetic material, on my first three layouts. Wanted another colour besides salt n' pepper for the fourth.
Go to your local landscaping materials place where people bring compost and yard waste, and where people doing plant borders get chipped bark mulch or pea gravel or blue-chip or talus...you get the idea. Ask for sand, and if the colour is right for you, wash it when you get home, dry it on large cookie sheets, and Bob's yer uncle. They'll want $8 for a 5 gal bucket.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Having a layout with 375 ft of trackage - excluding bridges and tunnels - is in itself a pretty large and in many ways an expensive venture. I can only imagine what the track, roadbed, turnouts, controls, and other right of way needs must have cost for something that big.
So the cost of ballast is just the icing on the cake, and its cost is just a small piece of the total pie. So with all the other expenses considered, the cost of the ballast is just not that big of a deal.
OK, to be constructive here, consider.......
- Rock ballast is preferable to WS shells. It is more expensive but easier to put down and it tends to stay where it falls.
- You don't have to buy all the ballast at once. Doing 375 ft of track is one big task, and it will likely take some time to finish.
- Of course the previous posters were correct, cubic inches of product translates to maybe 8 times that in coverage.
- While its likely too late for you, I have always painted my roadbed a similar color to the ballast I will use. This way, any small bare spots will not be noticeable.
Finally, I suggest that many of the folks on this forum would envy having space for 375 ft of track, and to be able to afford such a venture!
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
As others have already said, your estimates are way too high. I have a similar amount of track although I've never calculated how much. I don't buy the ballast all at once so I can only estimate how much I needed but I'm sure it was less than 10 jars of WS ballast.
I used different types of ballast of mainline, yards, and spurs. I would just buy what I needed to get start and when that ran out, I'd buy more. If you forced me to guess, I'd say I used 8 jars total and I have some still left over of each type.
selectorAsk for sand, and if the colour is right for you, wash it when you get home, dry it on large cookie sheets, and Bob's yer uncle.
Selector, I never heard that expression but Wiki bailed me out. Is it more common in some parts? I enjoyed learning it, as my heritage includes 1/4 Irish and 1/4 English, apparently the origin of the expression.
Bob's your uncle - Wikipedia
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
My last layout was done in WS ballast as will my currant one under construction. I only needed a couple of the big jars but only did about 1/2 what you are planning. I was bored so did a section with some extra wrong color than I am using (just loose of course) 1" did 1 1/2 feet of track aprox. single wide. So maybe 10 jars, maybe a bit more maybe a bit less, accually proubly less as there is one less shoulder in double track. I used wet water and used a matt medium mix to secure on last layout.
I use craft paint to do the sides of the rails, with a brush. Best done before ballasting. I dilute 70% alcohol 1:1 with water, soak the ballast and then add white glue, cut by three parts water. I apply this with a child's medicine dropper.
peahrens selector Ask for sand, and if the colour is right for you, wash it when you get home, dry it on large cookie sheets, and Bob's yer uncle. Selector, I never heard that expression but Wiki bailed me out. Is it more common in some parts? I enjoyed learning it, as my heritage includes 1/4 Irish and 1/4 English, apparently the origin of the expression. Bob's your uncle - Wikipedia
selector Ask for sand, and if the colour is right for you, wash it when you get home, dry it on large cookie sheets, and Bob's yer uncle.
Paul, it is common in some environments, depending on the culture here in Canada. I would say it's more an east coast thing, but you can hear it all over since people migrate across the country for work.
The version I am used to hearing is, "Bob's your uncle....and Peg's your aunt." Peg, or Peggy, is the diminutive for Margaret. Religion is still practiced more in the east of Canada than in the west, with the name Margaret popping up as community names for the Saint of that name. Nobody should be surprised that the maritimers named a famous place Peggy's Cove.
It's my missus standing there:
selector The version I am used to hearing is, "Bob's your uncle....and Peg's your aunt." Peg, or Peggy, is the diminutive for Margaret. Religion is still practiced more in the east of Canada than in the west, with the name Margaret popping up as community names for the Saint of that name. Nobody should be surprised that the maritimers named a famous place Peggy's Cove.
If you knew Peggy SueThen you'd know why I feel blueWithout Peggy, my Peggy Sue
Wow I really appreciate everyone's help. Yeah I misunderstood bottle content with coverage. I really appreciate Dave's math as I could never have figured that out on my own (never really was good in math). But based on the other inputs and what they actually used I think I might be good with 15 of the those 32oz/50cu in bottles. I think it was Rich who indicated he used 3.25 gallons (so if my math is right that would have been about 13 32oz bottles). I'm guessing that probably 4 bottles of the scenic cement should be ok, I don't think you need to use that much based on the Model Railroad ballasting video I think Cody did.
As far as the Tidy Track pen type painter I'm thinking perhaps maybe 15 or so of those as they don't look like they would cover that much and some people said it might require a second coat.
I appreciate the other suggestions too, but since I'm modeling south central West Virginia it looks like that ballast on their mainlines are that grey blend.
Again, I really appreciate everyone's input and yeah it took putting up a 30x40' steel building in the backyard to fit my 18' x 24' layout and also the pool table that would only fit in the house if I moved all the furniture out of the living room, but no room for the model railroad. I live in west central Texas (no basement) and we we're going to move to Utah and get a bigger house, but that didn't make sense anymore so to be able to have a man cave I needed to put up the steel building. That was costly too, but much cheaper than what it would have cost to move to Utah, especially since the house is paid for.
Love everyone's pictures of their layout scenes. Maybe once I get along with actual landscaping, mountain building, tunnel/river construction, etc. I'll upload some pics.
Thanks to all of you.
Gidday Gary, it doesn't appear to have been mentioned but here's a link to another supplier of ballast...
https://armballast.com/ho-scale/
Just to confuse the issue.
Cheers, the Bear.
Coastie71 Wow I really appreciate everyone's help. Yeah I misunderstood bottle content with coverage. I really appreciate Dave's math as I could never have figured that out on my own (never really was good in math). But based on the other inputs and what they actually used I think I might be good with 15 of the those 32oz/50cu in bottles. I think it was Rich who indicated he used 3.25 gallons (so if my math is right that would have been about 13 32oz bottles). I'm guessing that probably 4 bottles of the scenic cement should be ok, I don't think you need to use that much based on the Model Railroad ballasting video I think Cody did.
Hi again Gary,
Glad you liked my math!
As was already suggested, you might consider buying your ballast and glue a few bottles at a time so that you don't get stuck with too many leftovers. Based on what others have said, when I look at my math I suspect that I may have over calculated your needs.
FWIW, I'm going to use real stone ballast on my layout. I have heard that there can be problems with WS ballast because it is very lightweight and can shift when the glue is being applied. I have worked with real stone ballast and I didn't have any problems with it moving out of place.
richhotrain My layout is a double mainline, each track running 165 feet, so 330 feet of mainline track. I used Scenic Express real rock ballast. I needed 3.25 gallons of ballast. The total cost including tax and shipping was $217.58. Your double mainline is 375 feet, so your total cost would be $247.25 , using my cost numbers. Rich
Rich - are you sure about your numbers? By my calculations it should only cost about $247.15 for Coastie71 to ballast his layout. ;-)
Dan
Coastie71Love everyone's pictures of their layout scenes. Maybe once I get along with actual landscaping, mountain building, tunnel/river construction, etc. I'll upload some pics.
No need to wait for all that. I love to see projects-in-progress in Weekend Photo Fun.
Please feel free, and invited, to share contributions.
reasearchhound richhotrain My layout is a double mainline, each track running 165 feet, so 330 feet of mainline track. I used Scenic Express real rock ballast. I needed 3.25 gallons of ballast. The total cost including tax and shipping was $217.58. Your double mainline is 375 feet, so your total cost would be $247.25 , using my cost numbers. Rich Rich - are you sure about your numbers? By my calculations it should only cost about $247.15 for Coastie71 to ballast his layout. ;-) Dan
I have 1000' of HO brass and 100 turnouts all airbrushed with Floquil rail brown. I use kitty litter for ballast. I've found many different sizes and colors......pick one that best satisfies your eye. Buy several big containers and your good for life. I glue nothing down. Track is laid on cork roadbed. As I laid it decades ago, I used a rough file to shape the edges. Changes, additions, and repairs are easy. All track is brass and soldered together decades ago. It can be reused. It has been laying there for 30+ years and I've had no problem with track cleaning, locomotives or rolling stock wheels. My "O" gauge layout consists of 350' Gargraves not so flexible flex track and 21 turnouts. All track airbrushed with rail brown. Again kitty litter for ballast making changes and maintenance easy. All toll, I don't think I have $30 invested in ballast and a surplus that will take me to the end. As a sidebar....I bought two packs of black roofing shingles decades ago for about $12 a pack and use them for roads, walkways, and parking lots. Use them texture side up or flip over and paint as you see fit. It curves right up to track level at grade crossing, easy to cut, and can be reused. Used on both layouts. I realize everyone has different expectations but these materials have proven very cost effective and work for me. We all know the cost of this hobby is skyrocketing, so try to save on the little things to get the big things.
I keep wondering what the world would be like if there were more engineers running around . . .
Here is 1.841 cubic inches of Woodland Scenics N-scale ballast in a standard prescription bottle. The bottle is 1.25" in diameter and 2.75" high. The ballast is filled to 1.5" deep.
We need a few HO guys to use a similar amount of HO stuff (any brand, any material) and ballast some HO trackage. Then measure the linear feet or linear inches of track covered. Then report the findings to the OP. Piece of cake.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
ROBERT PETRICK We need a few HO guys to use a similar amount of HO stuff (any brand, any material) and ballast some HO trackage. Then measure the linear feet or linear inches of track covered. Then report the findings to the OP. Piece of cake. Robert
To save on shipping costs, I get the need to purchase stuff in larger quantities. I do it also. Perhaps start with a small number of ballast and go from there. Mine is from Scenic Express. It's a bit cheaper than WS.
Having fewer bottles laying around collecting dust avoids me feeling intimidated by what I have to do with ballast!
I am going to hijack the thread a little. There is a blasting media called black beauty that looks just like HO coal and comes in a 50# bag. Should cost under $15 today. There may be another media that would do for ballast. Might be worth looking into
Again, I want to thank everyone for their input and help. I went ahead and purchased the WS ballast (15 bottles, 4 of the scenic cement). I plan on using the 9/1 part Elmer's glue/water for the sides outside the track area as shown in Cody's video. Was also going to use the Isophrophyl alcohol like Cody showed too before applying the cement and glue/water mix.
I was amazed by EMDSD40 1000' brass rail layout with 100 turnouts. I can't even imagine the amount of work that took. I've been overwhelmed with my project, but now that I've finally got track down and just wired my last piece of track and was able to move the trains around the whole layout made me feel alot better. I do have to wire some or all of my turnout frogs as I noticed at very low speed the locomotive will either hesitate or stall on some of them. Again, I used Atlas 6 and 8 turnouts and Tortoise switches on the 23 turnouts.
The O guage also sounds very impressive. I still got my Lionel Santa Fe F7 trains my father bought my brother and me (he got the more expensive $100 metal ones and I got the $75 plastic ones) I think it was 1960, but sadly they sit in the attic as both locomotives many years ago the D cell battery for the horn leaked and made them not operable. Maybe one day I'll be able to repair them.
Again, thanks for everyone's help.
Kevin, if I can figure out how to upload pics I'll do that once I take the pics with the wife's cellphone. I think I tried to upload pics once before, but didn't have any luck (not sure if they have to be certain format or what).
Thanks
ndbprr I am going to hijack the thread a little. There is a blasting media called black beauty that looks just like HO coal and comes in a 50# bag. Should cost under $15 today. There may be another media that would do for ballast. Might be worth looking into