ATLANTIC CENTRAL...there is no #6 "snap switch", and the last time I held a Super Switch and a #6 Custom Line switch in my hand, the rail components were identical... A #6 Custom Line is a straight frog, prototype style #6 with the same geometry as the Super Switch, with a different tie layout and a short diverging route for making crossovers and yard ladders.
A #6 Custom Line is a straight frog, prototype style #6 with the same geometry as the Super Switch, with a different tie layout and a short diverging route for making crossovers and yard ladders.
That's true.
JC Turnouts 2 by wp8thsub, on Flickr
JC Turnouts 2
These are Atlas #6 Super Track turnouts, showing the arrangement of ties beyond the frog. I acquired most of these second hand, and some were already modified from use on a friend's layout and lacked the full complement of ties.
A Custom Line #6 can be dropped onto any of these and shows identical geometry, so the two are interchangeable from the standpoint of using them in a layout design.
Rob Spangler
Lastspikemike Superswitches are higher quality build than Custom Line also. This is quite noticeable when running a locomotive over the diverging route. Custom line are more like the current versions of snap switches, but perhaps only because the 22" radius #6 snap switches are better built than previously. Custom line throw bars and tie spacing facilitate use of Atlas surface mount switch motors. Those don't fit the Superswitches. I just bought a few ME Code 70 ladder system turnouts. I'm building a switching yard to try them out. I'm also building two sections of Code 83 main line using Walthers new flex track that is supposed to be just Shinohara made by a new manufacturer. All is to form part of a shelf layout incorporating some form of folded dogbone and two reversing loops....
Superswitches are higher quality build than Custom Line also. This is quite noticeable when running a locomotive over the diverging route.
Custom line are more like the current versions of snap switches, but perhaps only because the 22" radius #6 snap switches are better built than previously.
Custom line throw bars and tie spacing facilitate use of Atlas surface mount switch motors. Those don't fit the Superswitches.
I just bought a few ME Code 70 ladder system turnouts. I'm building a switching yard to try them out. I'm also building two sections of Code 83 main line using Walthers new flex track that is supposed to be just Shinohara made by a new manufacturer. All is to form part of a shelf layout incorporating some form of folded dogbone and two reversing loops....
We have been down this road, there is no #6 "snap switch", and the last time I held a Super Switch and a #6 Custom Line switch in my hand, the rail components were identical.
The 22" radius "Snap Switch" is not a #6 by any measure, it is a curved frog toy trainset switch that replaces a section of 22" radius snap track.
Yes, the Super Switch lacks the tie clips for the switch machine and has a double ended throwbar.
And again, I don't have samples of each product from every production run in the last 25 years, so I'm not going to debate build quality from product to product or production run to production run.
But the 120 Custom Line turnouts I have work fine, and have for decades. Just like they have for many of my friends.
Sheldon
I recall some modelers who are sticklers for prototypical looking track prefer the Super Switch. I think Rob Spangler commented to that effect.
It's true that the Custom Line are easier to use in yards for yard ladders - no trimming needed. In this yard I used a combination of both Super Switches and Custom Line because I already had some Super Switches but the ones I added later are Custom line.
You can see which are which because the Super Switch drawbare sticks out long on both dies, but is very short on one side on the Custom Line. I minimized the amount of trimming necessary.
There are also some Walthers #8 turnouts in this yard (on the right) - I did have to trim them a bit to form a crossover that fit the centerlines. There is a Shinohara code 70 as well.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 I have had to trim some other brands of turnouts because they have more track for the turnout number, especially after the frog. With Peco, they are pretty short for their number, and so far I haven't found it necessary to trim any ties or rail off of them. No throw rods were trimmed on mine because I trimmed ties of adjacent track instead. If you go with track centers less than 2 inches, you may need to do more trimming. From what I have seen, Peco large correspond most closely to a American #7 turnouts. Notice in the photo, the tip of the frog is about halfway between a Shinohara #6 and Shinohara #8, placing it as a #7. Peco medium are probably closer to a #5. Peco code 100 streamline turnouts are not manufactured to American numbering system and they do not number them as Atlas, ME and Walthers may. ME ladder turnouts may be one option, assuming you can find them since many have complained they are sold out at most vendors.
I have had to trim some other brands of turnouts because they have more track for the turnout number, especially after the frog. With Peco, they are pretty short for their number, and so far I haven't found it necessary to trim any ties or rail off of them. No throw rods were trimmed on mine because I trimmed ties of adjacent track instead. If you go with track centers less than 2 inches, you may need to do more trimming.
From what I have seen, Peco large correspond most closely to a American #7 turnouts. Notice in the photo, the tip of the frog is about halfway between a Shinohara #6 and Shinohara #8, placing it as a #7.
Peco medium are probably closer to a #5. Peco code 100 streamline turnouts are not manufactured to American numbering system and they do not number them as Atlas, ME and Walthers may.
ME ladder turnouts may be one option, assuming you can find them since many have complained they are sold out at most vendors.
I have never liked the Atlas Super Switch you have shown above because of the excess length of the diverging route.
Using the Atlas Custom Line (which you do not show) eliminates this problem and makes yard ladders with 2" track centers with no cutting or piecing, and also butt together to make crossovers with no cutting.
The other electrical and mechanical aspects of the Super Switch and the Custom Line switch are the same. The tie arrangement on the Super Switch is more proto correct, that is the primary reason it was created.
I was never crazy about the Shinohara products for the same reason.
Hopefully this photo will illustrate:
The red line that goes into the ladder and through the first turnout forms an S-curve. The turnouts in this photo are Peco large radius (approx #7) so the S-curve is relatively gentle. If you make the same ladder using Peco small radius code 100 instead, the S-curve will be much more pronounced and long cars, such as passenger cars may derail. Best test the longest cars before you get too far along with the ladder.
"If your first yard turnout from the mainline creates a yard at the correct angle to the mainline then no S curve need be created. "
I don't quite understand what you mean by this. (That may be due to just having finished a 5+ mile run though.) Can you explain further or provide a sketch?
I'm dealing with a "compression problem" as I had a seperate 1000 sq ft building in my old house and now I'm restricted to half of a two car garage for trains and workshop and exercise area. :( As a result, I'm tying to squeeze the yard in a small space.
Thanks for the suggestions.
How can you get an S-curve from a yard ladder?
There is no ideal length of track. Just do what you can to fit in cars. My stub-ended yard ladder tracks can accomodate plenty of cars. No S-curve there.
You can clip a piece off the Peco throws but I prefer to leave as much of my Peco's in-tact as possible, considering the cost and potential for re-use.
What I do instead is trim the ties of the adjoining (much cheaper) flex track so things can fit.
The above are Peco large code 100 but the principle is the same if arranged in a similar manner using smaller Peco's.
As for S curves, there is an ideal (or rather a minimum) according to John Armstrong in his Track Planning for Realistic Operation book, which I highly recommend.
For your consideration: "The wild coupler angles we observed when passing from curved to straight track are doubly accentuated in passing from one curve to another bending in the opposite direction. The resulting binding or sidewise pull is probably the largest single cause of derailments in well-built, but poorly designed track plans. S curves insidiously creep in on you unless you specifically watch out for them. ... Fig 5-7 points out some of the less obvious places S curves can occur."
Of particular importance, "If there is a section of straight track between reverse curves which is at least as long as the wheelbase of the longest car passing through them, the effect is no worse than that of two separate curves, and the S-curve problem disappears completely.
So much of the issue has to do with the longest rolling stock expected to be used.
I chose to use the largest of Peco code 100 in my staging yard to minimize any negative operational effects on long cars such as passenger cars or TOFC flat cars.
Using small Peco turnouts would increase the severity of S-curves such as the first track coming off a ladder, where S curve effects are much like a cross-over.
Llenroc fanIs there an ideal length for straight sections in yard ladders to avoid S curves?
I do not know if there is ideal.
Whenever I build something new I set up a test section and physically try it out. I have a "test train" that I run with an 86 foot high cube, two other freight cars, and a 4-8-2 locomotive. If that will work, I know I am OK for layout operations.
The Peco code 100 S curves would probably be no problem for many modelers, but if you are backing up large equipment, it could become an issue.
Testing will let you know for sure.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Is there an ideal length for straight sections in yard ladders to avoid S curves? I'm using Peco small radius code 100 turnouts and want to avoid the throw from hitting the adjoining track and make the routing through the turnouts smoother.