Pretty straightforward question. My mainline track(s) descend to grade level to reach yards. I use thin cork sheets to transition from road bed to plywood surface. I am specifically interested in where the mainline ballast ends as the track(s) off the mainline transition into the grade level yards.
I am including some photos of these transition areas.
The following photo shows the transition of mainline tracks into the passenger station lead tracks. I have ended the mainline ballast where the transition cork sheets end at grade level.
The next two photos show the mainline transitioning into the coach yard and freight yard.
The last photo shows the entry and exit tracks into and out of the engine servicing facility. You can see the cork transition sheets descending to grade level.
Any suggestions or insights would be most appreciated.
Rich
Alton Junction
I worked in the Collinwood yard on the East side of Cleveland. I can tell you first hand that there was no ballast. If there were it was sunk in the mud decades earlier. There were many broken pallets to try to keep your boots from sinking in the muck.
What I have done was paint the yards first and sparsely sprinkle some mainline ballast in with a lot of sand in my case due to the railroad being on the south shore of Massachusetts.
Pete.
I should have mentioned that while I used HO scale ballast for the mainlines, my plan is to use N scale ballast for the yards, so the yard ballast, as I refer to it, will be a very fine grade.
So, really, my question is, where does the mainline ballast end?
I would use a thin layer of plaster to build up between tracks, and if you're bold, between the rails of tracks. I'd tint the plaster with Burnt Umber. Then I'd liberally sprinkle the top of the groomed plaster, while its still setting up, with N Scale 'cinders'.
Rich, how about where the speed changes from yard to open/main. A train is obliged to enter the yard-proper at a reduced and strict speed limit, I believe. At that point, little is needed in high ballast and finely leveled tracks that you'd have to have on the main. Once you're near the arrival/departure, and heading toward ladders, it would all be mud 'n crud.
The link to the following shows the Albury in Australia rail yard entrance where you can see a transition from mainline ballast to a much finer ballast in the track to the right which was throughout the yard by the time it reached the station area.
https://www.nswrail.net/locations/photo.php?name=NSW:Albury:16
Further down that line, the following link shows the appearance of the yard
http://www.robx1.net/b501_525/b504_30.jpg
The transition would not be so much from one scale ballast to a smaller scale one (unless you are going from O to N) but from an HO scale ballast to a grout to represent what was in that yard.
Hope this helps
Cheers from Australia
Trevor
The ballast transition varies greatly by location. I've selected yards familiar to me for examples.
Above is UP's yard in Riverdale, UT http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1599230 . There are two main tracks near the top in this view, and a third is the track nearest the bottom. Where an edge can be seen, especially toward the right side of the image, it isn't particularly distinct. Also note the variations in ballast color within the yard, and the amount of spilled lading and locomotive sand.
The main tracks are near the center of this view of the old SP yard a couple miles away from UP's above (there's another smaller yard off to the right) http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5223042. Again note the lack of an abrupt transition between ballast types, and the variety of ballast in use on the yard tracks. There's ballast that looks to have received little attention for years, adjacent to brand new ballast that was just dumped in place.
Last is the D&RGW yard at Provo, UT http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2512839. More of the same. Here there's an unpaved access road between tracks that further blurs to distinction between ballast types.
I've seen too many layouts where the modeler tried to create a hard edge where mainline and yard ballast meet. There are a few spots in these photos where the transition is sharper than others, but it varies within a short distance and becomes less so.
Rob Spangler
All my "yards" are staging yards, so none of the track is ballasted and the rails and ties aren't painted, either.
Where tracks leave the mainline at servicing areas or to access industries, the ballast generally ends once the rails leave the mainline, as in the photos below...
I'll be doing some of the industrial sidings on the upper level using only real dirt and static grass.
Wayne
doctorwayne All my "yards" are staging yards, so none of the track is ballasted and the rails and ties aren't painted, either. Where tracks leave the mainline at servicing areas or to access industries, the ballast generally ends once the rails leave the mainline, as in the photos below...
Flickr is finally behaving again so I can post layout photos.
Lakeview Service 1 by wp8thsub, on Flickr
Lakeview Service 1
At the east end of my Lakeview yard, the mainline ballast blends with the rest somewhere around the turnouts. The transition occurs within the crossover into the yard in the foreground, and farther down the industry spur behind it.
West Lakeview Ballast by wp8thsub, on Flickr
West Lakeview Ballast
On the west end, it again blends within a crossover. Note the ballast here is of a different color and texture than what's on the east end, and there are at least three types within the yard.
JC Trees 3 by wp8thsub, on Flickr
JC Trees 3
At my Junction City yard, the main and yard ballast sort of mix with each other for some distance. Some of the yard tracks have a brownish color, while others have been more recently maintained with a medium gray.
Great photos and great work, Rob. I took a look at a lot of photos on your Flickr account to get even more ideas for yard ballasting. Your choice of colors is outstanding!
Nice photo's Rob. BTW, what turnouts are you using in the top two photos?
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
The safety factor would come into play. Places with foot traffic would be cleared of tripping hazards, meaning no rocks. If the diverging switches were hand thrown then a clear path would be needed. Asphalt and concrete in yards are the modern day norms. Steam days cinder and ash around walking paths were common. Slag from the steel mills also could be found. Mills would give it away on a come and take it deal. My uncle who worked at USS used a small front shovel to load cars (hopper, gons, and even flats.) For the railroads to haul away. Back in the sixties my garage floor and driveway was cinder. Just don't fall on it. The stuff really cut you up good. Then again the dirt road was spayed with that pungent oil two or more times a year. No wonder we all have cancer now.
Pete
riogrande5761BTW, what turnouts are you using in the top two photos?
The #8 crossovers are Walthers/Shinohara, while the visible #6 is Micro Engineering.
wrench567 Rich The safety factor would come into play. Places with foot traffic would be cleared of tripping hazards, meaning no rocks. If the diverging switches were hand thrown then a clear path would be needed. Asphalt and concrete in yards are the modern day norms. Steam days cinder and ash around walking paths were common. Slag from the steel mills also could be found. Mills would give it away on a come and take it deal. My uncle who worked at USS used a small front shovel to load cars (hopper, gons, and even flats.) For the railroads to haul away. Back in the sixties my garage floor and driveway was cinder. Just don't fall on it. The stuff really cut you up good. Then again the dirt road was spayed with that pungent oil two or more times a year. No wonder we all have cancer now. Pete
wp8thsub Flickr is finally behaving again so I can post layout photos. Lakeview Service 1 by wp8thsub, on Flickr At the east end of my Lakeview yard, the mainline ballast blends with the rest somewhere around the turnouts. The transition occurs within the crossover into the yard in the foreground, and farther down the industry spur behind it.
by wp8thsub, on Flickr
selector I would use a thin layer of plaster to build up between tracks, and if you're bold, between the rails of tracks. I'd tint the plaster with Burnt Umber. Then I'd liberally sprinkle the top of the groomed plaster, while its still setting up, with N Scale 'cinders'. Rich, how about where the speed changes from yard to open/main. A train is obliged to enter the yard-proper at a reduced and strict speed limit, I believe. At that point, little is needed in high ballast and finely leveled tracks that you'd have to have on the main. Once you're near the arrival/departure, and heading toward ladders, it would all be mud 'n crud.
This gets to a question I've been meaning to ask for some time. When the mainline tracks pass through the yard, either on one side or down the middle if there are ladders on either side, are trains restricted to yard speed limits, or can they pass through without slowing down?
John-NYBW This gets to a question I've been meaning to ask for some time. When the mainline tracks base through the yard, either on one side or down the middle if there are ladders on either side, are trains restricted to yard speed limits, or can they pass through without slowing down?
This gets to a question I've been meaning to ask for some time. When the mainline tracks base through the yard, either on one side or down the middle if there are ladders on either side, are trains restricted to yard speed limits, or can they pass through without slowing down?
wp8thsub riogrande5761 BTW, what turnouts are you using in the top two photos? The #8 crossovers are Walthers/Shinohara, while the visible #6 is Micro Engineering.
riogrande5761 BTW, what turnouts are you using in the top two photos?
Thanks Rob, the #8 crossover does look like a frog formed of stock rail which is consistant with Walthers/Shinohara. Micro have a cast frog if I recall.
In some (many?) cases, the mainline tracks go around the yard, not through it, so I would think it wouldn't be unusual for the mainline to be ballasted while the yard tracks are just dirt and such.
Not sure if this link to Google Maps will work, but if it does, the two tracks nearest Highway 10/61 are the joint BNSF-CP mainline tracks, which go around their railyards to the north and west along the tracks. You can see the mainline appears to have gray rock ballast while the yard tracks (this is the old Milwaukee Road hump yard) don't.
https://www.google.com/maps/search/cp+rail+near+Saint+Paul,+MN/@44.9315108,-93.0260899,128m/data=!3m1!1e3
wjstix In some (many?) cases, the mainline tracks go around the yard, not through it, so I would think it wouldn't be unusual for the mainline to be ballasted while the yard tracks are just dirt and such. Not sure if this link to Google Maps will work, but if it does, the two tracks nearest Highway 10/61 are the joint BNSF-CP mainline tracks, which go around their railyards to the north and west along the tracks. You can see the mainline appears to have gray rock ballast while the yard tracks (this is the old Milwaukee Road hump yard) don't. https://www.google.com/maps/search/cp+rail+near+Saint+Paul,+MN/@44.9315108,-93.0260899,128m/data=!3m1!1e3
richhotrainRob, what ballast material did you use for that lighter area?
Fine sand.
wp8thsub richhotrain Rob, what ballast material did you use for that lighter area? Fine sand.
richhotrain Rob, what ballast material did you use for that lighter area?
selectorRich, how about where the speed changes from yard to open/main. A train is obliged to enter the yard-proper at a reduced and strict speed limit, I believe.
John-NYBWThis gets to a question I've been meaning to ask for some time. When the mainline tracks pass through the yard, either on one side or down the middle if there are ladders on either side, are trains restricted to yard speed limits, or can they pass through without slowing down?
It depends on the railroad in question, and how they worded Rule 93 from the Standard Code of Operating Rules.
The applicable portion of Rule 93 from the WP, "Second and inferior class, extra trains, and engines must move within yard limits at yard speed."
Notice what isn't mentioned. First Class trains are not required to move at yard speed.
That being said, a yard isnt a good place to run at track speed. Typically, speed restrictions for the main track will be found in the special instructions found in the employee time table.
I dont have the Rule book from BM or PT, but I do have the ETTs.
A specific case I found was from Portland Terminal Company Time Table No. 45, dated September 25, 1938. The maximum speed between Tower 1 (south end of Rigby Yard) and the Fore River Bridge was 40mph.
Here is the 1924 map of Rigby:
http://www.upward-concepts.com/rail/rigbyl.gif
Tower one is to the left (South) the Fore River is to the right (North) off of the map. As you can see, the mains split right down the middle of the yard.
In this case, the track structure requirements would be similar for that of a mainline.
richhotrain doctorwayne All my "yards" are staging yards, so none of the track is ballasted and the rails and ties aren't painted, either. Where tracks leave the mainline at servicing areas or to access industries, the ballast generally ends once the rails leave the mainline, as in the photos below... Yeah, that is the conclusion that I am coming to as well. In other words, don't extend the mainline ballast onto the divergent side of the turnout that is leaving the mainline except to the extent that it is needed to maintain a line of ballast parallel to the straight through route of the turnout. Rich
Yeah, that is the conclusion that I am coming to as well. In other words, don't extend the mainline ballast onto the divergent side of the turnout that is leaving the mainline except to the extent that it is needed to maintain a line of ballast parallel to the straight through route of the turnout.
Now, I need to settle on the color of the yard ballast.
My mainlines are a 50-50 blend of Scenic Express #40 light gray/dark gray which I really like because it gives the mainlines a darker rather than a lighter look.
For the yard color and texture, I had initially tried a Woodland Scenics Fine Dark Brown with some Woodland Scenics Fine Cinders mixed in, a 3 to 1 brown to black blend. But, now, it may be too dark for my liking. I am also considering a blend of Woodland Scenics Gray and Buff. I like it, but I am wondering if it looks realistic.
If you look at the 2nd photo on page 13 of this PDF with the coaling tower, I really would like to capture that look.
https://mrv.trains.com/-/media/Files/PDF/Marketing/Freight%20Yard%20Design.pdf
Or, this, which looks to be mostly gray if you blow up the photo by clicking on it.
https://mrr.trains.com/how-to/track-planning-operation/2020/01/basics-of-car-cards-and-waybills-for-model-railroad-operation-part-3
Or even this although it may be too bland for my liking.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/m/mrr-layouts/2289263.aspx
Any thoughts on all of this?
My rule:
Mainline ballast ends and yard ballast begins wherever you run out of one or the other.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Pruitt My rule: Mainline ballast ends and yard ballast begins wherever you run out of one or the other.
I like that approach also. Can some hard have a way that defines the two areas? Perhaps it depends on location, era, etc.
Not to hijack the thread, but does the color in the yard depend on the timeframe of the layout?
kasskaboose does the color in the yard depend on the timeframe of the layout?
does the color in the yard depend on the timeframe of the layout?
kasskaboose...does the color in the yard depend on the timeframe of the layout?
To some extent it does. Steam era yards often used cinder ballast and had a different color and texture compared to yards today. Some photos show a nearly uniform dark gray from finely textured cinders.
So where does this leave me. I have a 5' x 10" switching layout and was going to ballast with WS grey ballast. Should I replace that with WS brown ballast? See the image.
Long Haired DavidA.K.A. David Penningtonmain man on the Sunset and North Eastern R.R.http://www.gmrblog.co.ukfrom the UK