kasskaboose Thanks Rich! I can't wait to see what you develop. The trick is having something well-maintained while still looking somewhat realistic.
Thanks Rich! I can't wait to see what you develop. The trick is having something well-maintained while still looking somewhat realistic.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain I agree with some that the amount of ballast and green growth depends on the area. Yeah, all of the comments have been great, but the one that sticks with me most is the one you mentioned. The amount of ballast and green growth depends on the area. My plan is to have a well groomed double mainline but to add some small grass tufts around the yards and sidings. Rich
I agree with some that the amount of ballast and green growth depends on the area.
Yeah, all of the comments have been great, but the one that sticks with me most is the one you mentioned. The amount of ballast and green growth depends on the area. My plan is to have a well groomed double mainline but to add some small grass tufts around the yards and sidings.
kasskaboose I agree with some that the amount of ballast and green growth depends on the area.
selector If you can imagine it, it must surely exist somewhere. The CP tracks through the Rockies are full of growth, and that's because the grain hopper closure mechanisms don't make perfect seals. Grains of wheat, barley, canola,...you name it...fall through the proverbial cracks and germinate some time in April or May, depending on the weather and last day of frost.
If you can imagine it, it must surely exist somewhere.
The CP tracks through the Rockies are full of growth, and that's because the grain hopper closure mechanisms don't make perfect seals. Grains of wheat, barley, canola,...you name it...fall through the proverbial cracks and germinate some time in April or May, depending on the weather and last day of frost.
What a great discussion topic with fantastic photos! Learning a lot from the topic and applicable since part of the mainline on my layout has double tracks. I added ground foam between the tracks, but can easily cover it with ballast.
richhotrain I am going to begin ballasting the track on my new layout. For the most part, it will be done on my double mainline. The straight sections of double mainline track are 2 inches on center. So in keeping with prototype photos, it appears that the ballast covers the open area between the two tracks without any appearance of weeds or grasses. But I also have some areas of track where there is a third track that services yards and spur tracks. On one curve in particular, the three tracks are spaced 3 to 4 inches apart. Would you cover the entire area between the tracks with ballast or would you intersperse ballast with weeds and grasses in that area? Rich
I am going to begin ballasting the track on my new layout. For the most part, it will be done on my double mainline. The straight sections of double mainline track are 2 inches on center. So in keeping with prototype photos, it appears that the ballast covers the open area between the two tracks without any appearance of weeds or grasses.
But I also have some areas of track where there is a third track that services yards and spur tracks. On one curve in particular, the three tracks are spaced 3 to 4 inches apart. Would you cover the entire area between the tracks with ballast or would you intersperse ballast with weeds and grasses in that area?
It really depends how long its been there brand new nice neat ballast dirt strip in the middle with a little ballast later add weeds later still all ballast and maybe later add the odd weed.
If how ever the line is well maintained class one weeds are unlikely as it will have regular weed sprays.
The yard tracks however are likely to be buried with fines or ash as a safety precaution to stop slips trips and falls by yard staff
Where the yard staff don't need to go often is likely to have weeds growing go easy on scattered junk it doesn't happen its a safety hazzard
it is also rare to find spikes, sole plates, fish plates, or bits of rail lying around this matierial can all be re-used in the railways main worksop or they can be re forged in some cases then re used.
And again it is suposed to be properly cleaned up before leaving the work site.
The railway in the picture has been there a while it has been re ballasted at least three times going on the ballast colours
regards John
Thanks, Mel.
I actually watched that video yesterday, and that is when I decided to order the already-made ones.
GMTRacing This is a great thread!
This is a great thread!
I need to place an order with Scenic Express for ballast. I will be adding some small grass tufts to the order.
This is a great thread! The aside about how diligent maintainence is rings true. When the New Haven was going under (the last time) a friend was an engineer on the line to Pittsfield Mass. Branching off that were seldom used lines for fuel oil or lumber dealers. Using mostly RS Alcos they needed to double head the trains even when only 3 or 4 cars were in the consist because they would end up in high grass as soon as they left the main (single) line. If they tried to deliver with a single power unit they would invariably stall out due to the amount of grass pushed onto the rails.
Generally even in dire times, the mains are kept fairly tidy and debris free. Where tracks diverge for example the siding leading to Sperry Railworks, the ballast is put down up to around 6-8 feet of divergence and then undergrowth is allowed to creep in.
I've had limited luck with the Noch static grass applicator I bought years ago. Mostly the grass appears not to have enough charge to stand up. I do recycle the stuff that misses and the left over ground foam by vacuuming it up with an old nylon stocking in the nozzle so the left overs go in there and not the cannister. When done, remove the stocking (I use a rubber band to hold it place while in use) and empty the contents into the container of your choice. J.R.
I probably missed your prodecural description earlier, Rob. Thanks for taking the time to summarize it again. I can see that it makes sense.
jjdamnitHello All, richhotrain Would you cover the entire area between the tracks with ballast or would you intersperse ballast with weeds and grasses in that area? A few thoughts... The prototypical double-track mainlines I have observed are completely ballasted. Even the sidings are as well maintained as the mainline. I recall seeing a depressed siding where the difference between the mainline and the siding was as much as 15-feet. Track crews built stairs out of reclaimed ties so crews could navigate the steep slope between the tracks. The entire slope between the tracks, despite the elevation difference, was completely ballasted. With a siding or diverging single track the ballast only needs to be so wide. Measuring the HO roadbed I use it's 2-inches wide (actual), at the base. That makes the ballast pad approximately 14-feet wide (scale). Once the diverging track moves more than 20-feet (scale), 2-3/4-inches (actual), away from the main, I would expect vegetation to grow between the tracks. Another thought is... How diligent is the track crew clearing weeds? If this siding is well use and maintained then I wouldn't expect much vegetation but I would not expect the railroad to spend money on ballasting dirt between the siding and the main. This area could be simply modeled as plain old compacted dirt. Hope this helps.
richhotrain Would you cover the entire area between the tracks with ballast or would you intersperse ballast with weeds and grasses in that area?
A few thoughts...
The prototypical double-track mainlines I have observed are completely ballasted.
Even the sidings are as well maintained as the mainline.
I recall seeing a depressed siding where the difference between the mainline and the siding was as much as 15-feet. Track crews built stairs out of reclaimed ties so crews could navigate the steep slope between the tracks.
The entire slope between the tracks, despite the elevation difference, was completely ballasted.
With a siding or diverging single track the ballast only needs to be so wide.
Measuring the HO roadbed I use it's 2-inches wide (actual), at the base. That makes the ballast pad approximately 14-feet wide (scale).
Once the diverging track moves more than 20-feet (scale), 2-3/4-inches (actual), away from the main, I would expect vegetation to grow between the tracks.
Another thought is...
How diligent is the track crew clearing weeds?
If this siding is well use and maintained then I wouldn't expect much vegetation but I would not expect the railroad to spend money on ballasting dirt between the siding and the main.
This area could be simply modeled as plain old compacted dirt.
Hope this helps.
Hello All,
richhotrainWould you cover the entire area between the tracks with ballast or would you intersperse ballast with weeds and grasses in that area?
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
I tried the harbor freight fly swatter DIY version and it didn't work at all.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I bought this one last fall, a GrassTech:
It was reviewed in the April 2012 MR. I bought last fall, but I haven't used it yet.
It was under $40.
Mike.
My You Tube
How much do static applicators cost? I was researching this a little, and it seems like a decent static applicator can be quite expensive.
selectorI may be wrong, but it seems to me that the applicator of static grasses will not really make tufts unless one is prepared to place multiple dots of glue, apply the grass, and then wait to vacuum up what doesn't stick to the dots of glue. You'll get tufts, but you'll have to 'retrieve' all the stuff that won't be able to be included in a tuft.
Remember - homemade grass tufts are made off the layout just like the commercial ones (again, I make them on non-stick aluminum foil sheet). When the glue dries, all you have to do to save the excess grass is to pour it off the sheet into a container. I've made thousands of them.
Hudson-Associated Spots by wp8thsub, on Flickr
Hudson-Associated Spots
All of the tufts shown here were made on foil sheets using the same static applicator I use on the layout itself.
Rob Spangler
wp8thsub richhotrain But, I assume that I can purchase the tufts ready made, correct? Yes. They just cost more. If you need them in mass quantities, it may be cost effective to get an applicator and make your own, otherwise just go with what's available from Silflor, etc.
richhotrain But, I assume that I can purchase the tufts ready made, correct?
Yes. They just cost more. If you need them in mass quantities, it may be cost effective to get an applicator and make your own, otherwise just go with what's available from Silflor, etc.
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the applicator of static grasses will not really make tufts unless one is prepared to place multiple dots of glue, apply the grass, and then wait to vacuum up what doesn't stick to the dots of glue. You'll get tufts, but you'll have to 'retrieve' all the stuff that won't be able to be included in a tuft. Instead, the idea of the applicator, as I see it, is to create a field of sorts, or maybe the term 'swashes' of grass is more appropriate. Expanses that, in scale, would run from 20 square feet on up to entire hillsides.
The tuft sheets are meant to be planted individually as tufts, and that would be entirely natural in some places. Higher elevations, for example, or places along the right-of-way where tuft grasses grow.
richhotrainBut, I assume that I can purchase the tufts ready made, correct?
wp8thsub richhotrain Which brand and type of grass tufts did you use in that photo? Those are homemade using 6mm grass. Colors include Late Summer (the darker green) and golden grass from Silflor, and beige from Noch. Making these is simple if you have a static applicator. I place drops of flexible glue like canoply glue or Aleene's Tacky Glue on non-stick aluminum foil, clip the applicator's ground probe to the foil, and keep adding grass fiber until I have the look I want. After the glue dries I dump the excess fiber into a container for re-use. Woodland Scenics also has some nice static grass in various lengths, and they have some variegated colors. I used some of it on a friend's layout and it's worth a look too.
richhotrain Which brand and type of grass tufts did you use in that photo?
Those are homemade using 6mm grass. Colors include Late Summer (the darker green) and golden grass from Silflor, and beige from Noch.
Making these is simple if you have a static applicator. I place drops of flexible glue like canoply glue or Aleene's Tacky Glue on non-stick aluminum foil, clip the applicator's ground probe to the foil, and keep adding grass fiber until I have the look I want. After the glue dries I dump the excess fiber into a container for re-use.
Woodland Scenics also has some nice static grass in various lengths, and they have some variegated colors. I used some of it on a friend's layout and it's worth a look too.
OK, so you can make homemade grass tufts if you own a static applicator, which I don't. But, I assume that I can purchase the tufts ready made, correct?
wp8thsub I use a lot of static material and grass tufts around secondary tracks, along with some fine foam here and there. Note the prototype will try to avoid anything that would constitute a tripping hazard, so vegetation more substantial than large weeds would typically be absent from an area where crews have to walk.
I use a lot of static material and grass tufts around secondary tracks, along with some fine foam here and there. Note the prototype will try to avoid anything that would constitute a tripping hazard, so vegetation more substantial than large weeds would typically be absent from an area where crews have to walk.
wp8thsub richhotrain What specific types of Scenic Express vegetation would look good and prototypical in ballasted areas? Ground foam works pretty much the same as with other brands. Much of what's useful from Scenic Express isn't from their brand name, including things like static grass or tufts (if you have a static applicator, tufts are easy to make and cost less than the ones you buy). Milton Elevator Spots by wp8thsub, on Flickr 60 Ford 1 by wp8thsub, on Flickr I use a lot of static material and grass tufts around secondary tracks, along with some fine foam here and there. Note the prototype will try to avoid anything that would constitute a tripping hazard, so vegetation more substantial than large weeds would typically be absent from an area where crews have to walk.
richhotrain What specific types of Scenic Express vegetation would look good and prototypical in ballasted areas?
Ground foam works pretty much the same as with other brands. Much of what's useful from Scenic Express isn't from their brand name, including things like static grass or tufts (if you have a static applicator, tufts are easy to make and cost less than the ones you buy).
Milton Elevator Spots
by wp8thsub, on Flickr
60 Ford 1
In those two photos, I especially like the grass tufts. Woodland Scenics doesn't seem to have that style of vegetation, but Scenic Express does. I need to get more ballast from Scenic Express so I will add some grass tufts to my order.
Thanks for your comments and photos.
richhotrainWhat specific types of Scenic Express vegetation would look good and prototypical in ballasted areas?
Milton Elevator Spots by wp8thsub, on Flickr
60 Ford 1 by wp8thsub, on Flickr
Thanks for your thoughts, Selector and Bagal.
My usual go-to source for vegetation is Woodland Scenics, but I have recently been considering Scenic Express. The same has been true for ballast where I recently made the switch from Woodland Scenics to Scenic Express.
Any thoughts on the use of Scenic Express vegetation?
What specific types of Scenic Express vegetation would look good and prototypical in ballasted areas?
When I am ballasting I first apply a layer that represents the surface of the roadbed, usually a different colour of rock, sometimes a different texture, then ballast as normal. In the OP's case this would leave a surface finished surface between the widely spaced tracks. I would then apply some randon weeds, or a little static grass, not much, as it is growing in a fairly hostile environment.
Bagal
HO-Velo A 2011 view of UP double track mainline on the shore of the Carquinez Strait near Crockett, Ca., on the right is part of C&H sugar refinery service trackage. Regards, Peter
A 2011 view of UP double track mainline on the shore of the Carquinez Strait near Crockett, Ca., on the right is part of C&H sugar refinery service trackage.
Regards, Peter
However, the ballast is meant to be relatively clean. Some roads use steam blasters to kill vegatation, or they spray, stuff that gets into the lower reaches of the ballast outboard of the ties. And, we all know that ballast, itself, gets cleaned or replaced as needed, so you could almost have it both ways along your main. I switched batches of clean sand partway through ballasting my twin mains a couple of years ago precisely because I wanted that look, but also to have variations when I finally (?) begin to take photos.
Thanks for the kind words, Rich. I hope your project turns out.