Thought about it but then it is something I have to fix when I sell the house. Not sure how long I will be in this house.
On last question - can you put a hole in the short wall next to the closet door? Specifically, on the left. If you can do that, you can move the whole yard ladder to the left, and even make it truly hidden staging by leaving the closet door in place and closed, unless you need to go in to fix something.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Water Level Route Easy. The entire staging yard is your reversing section. Wire it all through the autoreverser, including the wye turnout.
Easy. The entire staging yard is your reversing section. Wire it all through the autoreverser, including the wye turnout.
Rich
Alton Junction
Mike
Not really. You only need to stagger the gaps so that only one metal tire ever crosses any one of the gaps. That way, the reverser can detect the short, correct it, and then reverse that correction if another metal tire at the other end causes a new short. Digital Specialties, in my PSX-AR's instructions dating now to 2006, state that if you necessarily have to have a reversed, gapped, section that is short, and shorter than your typical consist, simply create two SETS, or PAIRS, of gaps at each end of the reversed section. The idea is to have the two pairs of gaps set apart such that the longest metal tired truck in the train, say a lighted passenger car, will fit between the pairs of gaps. This might seem a bit mind-blowing, but if you draw a diagram and think about it, it makes sense.
Now the next big question comes up and why I was trying to stay away from a wye. How do I wire it? Most of my rolling stock have metal wheels. From my understanding the isolated section needs to be longer than the train for an autoreverser to work.
I like that version of the storage tracks. The Y gives access to each direction, and the storage tracks are longer.
I work in HO scale, and I don't have any problems backing up trains. I don't how well that works in N.
I would think with good track work, and rolling stock in good condition, and being the proper weight, it should be fine.
And, everything is out in the open and easy to get to, just in case!
Mike.
My You Tube
corsiar I see what you are saying. Maybe I got it right this time. So a train would pull in to the yard from the left or right. The locomotives would just stay trapped while another set of locomotives couples to the other end to pull it back out on the main? I like the wye then I can turn 4014 and 844 around
I see what you are saying.
Maybe I got it right this time. So a train would pull in to the yard from the left or right. The locomotives would just stay trapped while another set of locomotives couples to the other end to pull it back out on the main?
I like the wye then I can turn 4014 and 844 around
Yes, exactly!
But why not just back the train out of the yard to turn it around? And then back it in the other side of the wye to set up staging for the next run. It will work, trains do back up without issues with good trackwork.
In other words, pull the train past the wye on the main, then back into wye to the staging. Not necessarily during an opps session, but as a set up procedure.
But the separate loco thing works too.
Sheldon
jim57 Your closet staging yard is a very creative use of space, However, I see some issues with the staging yard and the multiple run-arounds: they eat up storage space and the adjacent track must be clear to provide a return path for the arriving loco. One option would be to dedicate only one staging lead as the arrival track, which would also save cost of multiple turnouts and increase available storage space considerably. Perhaps a more efficient option would be an arrival track (siding) before the yard ladder, so there is no need to have 2 of six tracks in the yard clear. jim57
Your closet staging yard is a very creative use of space, However, I see some issues with the staging yard and the multiple run-arounds: they eat up storage space and the adjacent track must be clear to provide a return path for the arriving loco.
One option would be to dedicate only one staging lead as the arrival track, which would also save cost of multiple turnouts and increase available storage space considerably.
Perhaps a more efficient option would be an arrival track (siding) before the yard ladder, so there is no need to have 2 of six tracks in the yard clear.
jim57
I would use a diamond shaped ladder yard so all tracks are the same length. The original idea would only allow locos to escape on an adjacent track. A diamond yard would allow the loco to escape to the runaround track from any of the staging tracks.
corsiar The two main lines are connected on the left side of the overall layout. They got hidden and I didnt notice them. The crossover on top. The staging yard is connected to a siding I guess. The AD track comes off the inside main ten goes to the classification yard.
The two main lines are connected on the left side of the overall layout. They got hidden and I didnt notice them. The crossover on top. The staging yard is connected to a siding I guess. The AD track comes off the inside main ten goes to the classification yard.
I'm not sure I understand. Do those tracks on the right side ofthe drawing connect to each other?
If so, OK, the staging wye is on the passing siding but that track could just as easily be the main and the siding be in the middle. Real railroads do stuff like that.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL Rich, are you not building a stub end passenger terminal? Is that where you bad experience comes from? RTR passenger cars with crappy coupler set ups? Well, let me answer your question this way. Yes, I am building a stub end passenger terminal. I am modeling Dearborn Station in downtown Chicago. Following prototype practice, I pull arriving trains forward into the station. Switchers then pull the passenger car consists out of the station and into the stub end coach yard. Head end power then backs out of the station and into the engine servicing facility. The process is then reversed with the switchers pushing the passenger car consist into the station and the head end power then backs into the station and couples with the passenger car consist, ready for departure. So, there are some back up moves, but never with head end power, only lighter switchers. I have traditionally experienced occasional derailment problems with backing up trains, especially those with 85' passenger cars. And, yes, a lot of the problems are associated with RTR couplers. Actually, I replace all factory mounted couplers with a variety of Kadee couplers, both medium and long center set shank, and I install whisker couplers in most instances. But I usually retain the factory installed coupler boxes. To me, the laws of physics frown upon backing up trains, particularly through turnouts and yard ladders. The back up moves need to be slow, and it would help to use #8 turnouts, although for space saving purposes, I always use #6 turnouts. My golden rule is to avoid back up moves whenever possible. Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Rich, are you not building a stub end passenger terminal? Is that where you bad experience comes from? RTR passenger cars with crappy coupler set ups?
Well, let me answer your question this way. Yes, I am building a stub end passenger terminal. I am modeling Dearborn Station in downtown Chicago. Following prototype practice, I pull arriving trains forward into the station. Switchers then pull the passenger car consists out of the station and into the stub end coach yard. Head end power then backs out of the station and into the engine servicing facility. The process is then reversed with the switchers pushing the passenger car consist into the station and the head end power then backs into the station and couples with the passenger car consist, ready for departure. So, there are some back up moves, but never with head end power, only lighter switchers.
I have traditionally experienced occasional derailment problems with backing up trains, especially those with 85' passenger cars. And, yes, a lot of the problems are associated with RTR couplers. Actually, I replace all factory mounted couplers with a variety of Kadee couplers, both medium and long center set shank, and I install whisker couplers in most instances. But I usually retain the factory installed coupler boxes.
To me, the laws of physics frown upon backing up trains, particularly through turnouts and yard ladders. The back up moves need to be slow, and it would help to use #8 turnouts, although for space saving purposes, I always use #6 turnouts.
My golden rule is to avoid back up moves whenever possible.
Hey Rich-
I understand your operations, and I share your concerns involving pushing trains; and double concerns involving long trains. I don't like to back trains, and I only do so when absolutely necessary.
My passenger trains are more-or-less unit trains that have cars arranged in a particular order: baggage cars and RPO up front; coaches, sleepers, and diners in the middle; observation cars near the back; and special club cars with lighted drumheads at the tail. Sheldon mentioned something like this early on. Backing these trains in or out is preferable (and actually the only way) despite the hardships and extra slow speeds.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
Go back to the first drawing you posted with the wye and the single track. Branch off that track on both sides with tracks tha go all the way to end and stop.
You will get more and longer tracks.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL What's not to like? Backup moves. Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL What's not to like?
Backup moves.
But only for restaging for the next session. If the trackwork is done well, the trains should be just as reliable running in reverse.
corsiar With a parallel ladder and the smallest PECO code 55 turnout this is as much as I can squeeze in. The ladder lengths would be 56", 53", 51" and 55".
With a parallel ladder and the smallest PECO code 55 turnout this is as much as I can squeeze in. The ladder lengths would be 56", 53", 51" and 55".
Eliminate the ladder at the dead end, make all your tracks longer. You don't need the run around?
hon30critter richhotrain My golden rule is to avoid back up moves whenever possible. Hi Rich, You wouldn't want to model the Go Train service coming out of Toronto. All of the northbound trains have the locomotives pushing from the back of the train all the way to their final destinations. They have special cars with control cabs that go on the leading end of the trains. They have had derailments but as far as I know, none were a direct result of the trains being pushed. Dave
richhotrain My golden rule is to avoid back up moves whenever possible.
Hi Rich,
You wouldn't want to model the Go Train service coming out of Toronto. All of the northbound trains have the locomotives pushing from the back of the train all the way to their final destinations. They have special cars with control cabs that go on the leading end of the trains. They have had derailments but as far as I know, none were a direct result of the trains being pushed.
Dave
We have the same kind of commuter service here in the Baltimore area.
corsiar Even with the wye wouldnt I still have to back the trains in?
Even with the wye wouldnt I still have to back the trains in?
Yes, at times. But if you set up the trains to come out, then just pull them back it, you would later back them out, around the wye, then back them in the other leg of the wye and set them up for the next operating session.
And the wye would let you change the direction of whole trains or just locos at any time.
OK, fair enough, but my experiances are much different.
Most of my passenger cars are Athearn or ConCor cars I converted to body mounts and American Limited diaphragms. Even other brands of cars are generally converted to my coupler and diaphragm standard which results in diaphragms that touch, and stay touching, and couplers with enough swing, but not too much. My smallest curve in passenger territory is 36" radius.
When I back them up, the American Limited diaphragms actually help push, taking much of the side stress off the wider swing desired with passenger coupler set ups.
My passenger terminal turnouts are #6 Atlas Custom Line. It was/will be a thru terminal, but there was/will be switching and making up trains.
As for freight cars, proper weight standards, and good trucks are key.
As I have explained before I install Intermountain metal wheel sets in Kadee sprung metal trucks on most of my freight cars. The equalization of a sprung truck means better tracking - forward or reverse.
As I was dismantling the lower level of the old layout, I was left with about a 120' run on the upper level that was point to point. I ran 40 car trains forward and backward all the time on that 120' run, and can't hardly remember a derailment - that same trackage I posted pictures of in thread about lazer straight track.........
As for the OP, 5' of N scale equipment thru a wye and a few turnouts on one yard ladder, than 5' of track with no turnouts? I don't see any problem with good trackwork.
But, I will admit I have zero practical experiance with N scale.......
richhotrainMy golden rule is to avoid back up moves whenever possible.
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
ATLANTIC CENTRALRich, are you not building a stub end passenger terminal? Is that where you bad experience comes from? RTR passenger cars with crappy coupler set ups?
Well, only the OP can decide if that's a problem for him, but it has never been a problem for me. And I know more than few other modelers who have staging yards they back whole trains into.
And again, you stage all your trains to pull out in advance, and you do the back up moves to restage them after the operating session.
To me it beats handling equipment or wasting space on a scheme that allows a bunch of switching.
Rich, are you not building a stub end passenger terminal? Is that where you bad experiance comes from? RTR passenger cars with crappy coupler set ups?
to follow up on the parallelogram ladder, it makes the track more equal length. given the guessimated dimensions and assuming #4 turnouts and 2" spacing, the shortest track is ~79". N gauge might allow tighter spacing
but i like rich's suggestion about using a reflected Y to get to a center escape track. (the wye turnout can't be the same frog # as the other turnouts)
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
ATLANTIC CENTRALWhat's not to like?
corsiar Like this?
Like this?
Yes, exactly. Trains pull out, trains pull in. Trains get turned and back in prior to the operating session, or during.
Trains enter or leave in either direction.
No escape tracks, no uncoupling, no lifting locos, no excess turnouts, just a double sided ladder at the wye end like you had before.
What's not to like?
With all manual turnouts, you're going to spend a lot of time walking around and flipping them, plus, I assume, manually uncoupling engines from trains.
Get one of those FitBit things so when people call you a lazy model railroader, you can show them how many steps you're taking every day.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
So the idea of a wye feeding a dead end staging yard without all those escape turnouts would not only store more, longer trains, it would provide for operation in both directions and allow whole trains to be turned.