I just got back from Lowes, had to pick up some things so like usual I spent some time looking around. Crazy enough, the 3/4" birch plywood they have right now is 13 ply - a couple of weeks ago, it was all 7 ply. But the visible voids along the factory edge of every piece in the stack don't bode well for quality. But hey, it was only $50 a sheet.
I also checked out the clear pine and poplar, the selection was actually pretty good, lots of straight pieces, though not a whole lot, at least in 8' lengths.
One thing I checked out were some of the various brackets and angles used for framing. Most of it is of course sized for 2x4 and larger, however there are some nice 2" 90 degree angles aht are a whole 65 cents each. If I bolt a vertical to the studs, which could even be cut from "ok" plywood, doesn't have to be anything special, I could then connect each horizontal stick with one of these angles - or even one on each side. I think that would be plenty strong enough - the meximum depth at any point is 24", and much of it will be in the 18" range. The secodn deck I will probably set back by 4" - that still allows plenty of light from LED strips underneath the second deck to light the bottom deck,as comparing to my workbench which has LEDs mounted under the bottom shelf to illuminate the work surface, 4 inches out from the edge is still brightly lit, but start going much furhter and the light drops off sharply (inverse square law). Even the slight setback would improve the view of the lower deck, and the less the overhang, the less force on the attachment point.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
ATLANTIC CENTRALI call it backwards marketing - you can't have good sales on stuff you don't have...
.
Like hobby shops and undecorated freight cars.
Do you have any undecorated freight cars?
> No, no one ever buys them, so we do not stock them.
Have you ever stocked them?
> No, no one ever buys them.
Maybe if you stocked them, someone would buy them... Duh. You can't sell something you do not have.
I have never understood a hobby shop stocking decals and paint, but no undecorated freight cars.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 riogrande5761 The flex track is silly expensive for what you get so I won't be buying any. Is there something different about the rail cross section or tie profiles of their new code 83 line that might make it better compatible with their own flex-track? My older Walthers/Shonohara code 83 switches mate up just fine with Atlas flex track. -Kevin
riogrande5761 The flex track is silly expensive for what you get so I won't be buying any.
Is there something different about the rail cross section or tie profiles of their new code 83 line that might make it better compatible with their own flex-track?
My older Walthers/Shonohara code 83 switches mate up just fine with Atlas flex track.
It would probably be fine. I've mated lots of different brands with no issues, and codes with some tweaks and shimming where need.
If you buy any of the new expensive Walthers flex, let us all know.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
The reason for ripping plywood into 1 x 4s is that even buying the really good plywood, it's much cheaper than buying decent 1 x 4s in this neck of the woods.As far as Walthers, when they first brought out their track line, they were the only No. 5 turnout available. Now that MicroEngineering has put a stop to that, I wonder what will eventually happen to Walthers prices.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
You should try some old fashioned building supply/lumber yards near you. You might be surprised what they carry or can get, and how competitive the prices might be.
LOWES and HD base the inventory of that stuff based on the sales in that store, if it has not been a good item for that store, it will not be well stocked.
I call it backwards marketing - you can't have good sales on stuff you don't have........
I don't care what kind of plywood you cut up, I don't like the fastening issues using it that way.
I friend did a multi deck layout by building plywood sided " L brackets" with a radius on tne inside of the "L". We screwed the plywood "L" to the wall studs (no drywall in place) and used another length of 2x4 as a spacer. Wish I had a picture of them......
Another good way to do it is with steel. Make a "T" with flat stock and square stock, attach them with lag screws to the studs.
Sheldon
Not so much the Lowes or Home Depot around here, they all seem to have little but scrap. It's all fine if you only need to cut it up into short pieces, but even if the bin for a particular size is fairly full, I can go spend an hour picking through to get the straight ones and not have enough to fully load my truck.
I may perhaps being a bit paranoid, as my previous layout was all built using clear pine from Lowes, although I used extruded foam for the surface. None of the framing ever warped or anything, and it was still solid after sitting 3+ years in my new basement, which was rather damp in summer and dry in winter. Cutting your own 1x lumber from 3/4" plywood is just for extra warp resistance. At least, with decent plywood with the plies laid out properly.
My bottom deck, I can build as heavy as I want, I can always run legs tot he floor, but I want to minimize the number of legs. The second deck needs to be lightweight and supporeted only at the wall end. So the goal is a strong attachment that does not intrude on the space between decks.
I'm not sure I've reached the stage where I'm prepared to drive 2 hours or so each way for every truckload of lumber I need. The local plywood supplier I called, I was amazingly NOT the first person who wanted to buy plywood to build a model railroad, and they have some other materials not sold in the big box stores which they think are also suitable for cutting into boards, so I am going to stop by there and take a look.
Atlas still has track in 100pc boxes, but it seems the biggest box of Peco you can get is 25. I wouldn;t mail order less than 25 - it's solidly packed int he box and both boxes arrived undamaged. The first time I ordered a few pieces (5 I think) to sample it, they packed it in one of the empty 25 piece boxes and - well, let's just say I have plenty of code 83 rail and all the spare tie strips I'll ever need. Might be neat to get a look at Peco's packaging line, because I am pretty sure the box is formed around the two stacks of track found inside, not that the track is put inside an already formed box.
rrinker I was trying to get 13 ply Baltic Birch to cut up to make the framework with/ Nothing but garbage wood at the local Lowes and HD, even stepping up to supposedly better stuff like popler. I called a local plywood palce today, they only have the 13 plys up to 5x5 sheets. I may just have to go with a lesser plywood and use lots of angles at the joints. I don't want shelf brackets, that means notching out the backdrop every 16", crazy/ I did see a method using shelf brackets, but mounted sideways. --Randy
I was trying to get 13 ply Baltic Birch to cut up to make the framework with/ Nothing but garbage wood at the local Lowes and HD, even stepping up to supposedly better stuff like popler. I called a local plywood palce today, they only have the 13 plys up to 5x5 sheets. I may just have to go with a lesser plywood and use lots of angles at the joints. I don't want shelf brackets, that means notching out the backdrop every 16", crazy/ I did see a method using shelf brackets, but mounted sideways.
Not sure I understand how you are planning to build this?
Lowes around here usually has good Poplar, but not large quantities, HD not so much.
I know a guy in Glen Burnie, MD who could make you what ever you need, not sure ablout cost, but often competitive with conventional sources.
I've never been much for this idea of ripping plywood in to conventional lumber sizes, I don't really know?
I build stuff all day long with wood, I have never seen the need/reason to do that, despite some of the explanations for it?
I built my double deck layout in a very unconventional way, not likely to be of much help, I had special circumstances, I hung most of my upper deck from a sloped attic ceiling, or built peninsulas without floor to ceiling walls, but with double center "walls" that supported the upper deck.
PS, to the original topic, notice the 200 feet or so of flex track laying loose on the upper deck..........
Back in my hobby shop managing days, we sold it by the piece or by the 100 piece case. The manufacturers/distributors only sold it by the 100 piece case. No 10 or 25 packs back then.
rrinker Gif order? Not really, but I just got 2x 25 packs of Peco Code 83 and a few turnouts. Sale going on, got it for less than ModelTrainStuff even. Certainly not enough to do even the whole lower level of my layout, but enough to start - but maybe jumping the gun since I don't even have wood for the benchwork yet. That's proving extremely difficult to find. --Randy
Gif order? Not really, but I just got 2x 25 packs of Peco Code 83 and a few turnouts. Sale going on, got it for less than ModelTrainStuff even. Certainly not enough to do even the whole lower level of my layout, but enough to start - but maybe jumping the gun since I don't even have wood for the benchwork yet. That's proving extremely difficult to find.
? What kind of wood are you looking for?
kasskaboose Dave and others touch on a notable issue: buying alot at once or progressively. I suggest the latter, so you don't get overwhelmed and over-buy. I hate having a ton of boxes laying around unused. Similar to tile, you figure that a certain amount of track goes to waste. I hate to admit it but I've had to throw out track too.
Dave and others touch on a notable issue: buying alot at once or progressively. I suggest the latter, so you don't get overwhelmed and over-buy. I hate having a ton of boxes laying around unused. Similar to tile, you figure that a certain amount of track goes to waste. I hate to admit it but I've had to throw out track too.
??????
Throw out new track? Did I miss something here? I have a couple whole cases of 100 pieces of Atlas flex track that is 10 years old. I'm about to start on a new layout, happy to have kept it.
I can't get my head around the idea of throwing away anything unused that is still uesable. If you don't need is sell it or give it way?
In my 53 years in this hobby, most of the flex track I have bought has been by the 100 piece case. I've never built a layout where I was not going to use at least most of that 300'.
I went with the buy large quantities up front strategy because I had a very accurate idea of exactly what track pieces/parts my layout required.
There have been times when there are severe shortages in the retail 'channel' for model RR track. I hated when I couldn't work on particular areas when the track I needed was backordered everywhere.
Modeling an HO gauge freelance version of the Union Pacific Oregon Short Line and the Utah Railway around 1957 in a world where Pirates from the Great Salt Lake founded Ogden, UT.
- Photo album of layout construction -
mbinsewi I got the Walther's Flyer on Thursday, and they have a track sale going on. I don't know how that compares to others, as I don't need any track right now. What little track I may eed in the future, I'll get from Hiawatha. I do have my eyes out for On30 track, for an upcoming project. Peco or ME. LHS stocks ME. Mike.
I got the Walther's Flyer on Thursday, and they have a track sale going on. I don't know how that compares to others, as I don't need any track right now.
What little track I may eed in the future, I'll get from Hiawatha.
I do have my eyes out for On30 track, for an upcoming project. Peco or ME. LHS stocks ME.
Mike.
in general even with the sale I have buying directly from Walthers to be on the expensive side. After all they don't want to undercut their retail networ.
Joe Staten Island West
Back in the Dark Ages, I took my track bill-of-materials to three local train stores (yeah... THAT long ago! ) and asked if they were interested in submitting a bid. One came through and it was significantly less than if I has cherry-picked every published lowest price for every item. It was a win-win, I got a great deal, and the store got a big order without carrying the inventory.
If I was starting out today, I think I'd try the same with a few on-line retailers.
Another thought... Our local RR Museum/MRR Club offers members ($35 annual dues) 25% off Walthers list/sale price. The club places the collected orders when they have enough to qualify for free shipping, so members don't pay freight costs. Maybe there is such a museum/club in your area?
Jim
Definitely going to agree with those who say buy now. if you've got the funds now, I'd buy all the flex track and at least 75% of the swtiches (if not all). I have MUCH smaller layout planned, but even though I've only done about one loop, I bought nearly all my track and switches ahead of time. Availability can be an issue and, unopened swithces and unused track are one of the easiest railroad items to resell or trade if plans change.
As for track deals, I don't know if you ever trek down to the Great Midwest Train Show, (monthly show in Wheaton, IL) but there's a regular seller there who deals primarily in Atlas. His prices for individual track and switches are about as low as I've ever seen even comparing to other folks' bulk rates. He also lets folks bring back their unopened stuff and swap it for what they need if they buy the wrong things or their layout plans change. I've purchased most of my track from him.
I've no idea if he deals outside that show, but I bet someone here knows his contact info. The show it'self is worth a trip just for the massive number of vendors and deals.
Visit the Chicago Valley Railroad for Chicago Trainspotting and Budget Model Railroading.
Just a couple of thoughts I have on the subject.
I had a friend living in a remote part of the country that had a large order to put in and put together a list of what he needed and offered to put a deposit down with the order. The difference in price was quite significant when the answers came back from all the vendors he had written to both in Canada and the U.S.
Also, I know a couple of people in the biz in Canada and when tariffs started going on products in the U.S. the orders from places like Australia and New Zealand went through the roof. One company has had a 42% increase in orders from those two countries in 2019. Pricing with duties/taxes and shipping can make the bottom line go in either direction but is worth exploring on a large order.
Maybe look North of the Border as well.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Got me thinking so I did the math. Using MB Klein, 100 pc of code 100 is $350, buying 90 in groups of 25,25,25,10, and 5 is $344. Buying 100 gives you 10 extra sticks for 60 cents a stick. Couldn't do code 83 as they didn't have the 10 pack listed, but using 3 25 packs and 3 5 packs, it came to $400 for 100 pack and $381 for 90 pc. Intresting that the 5 packs for both codes is the same- $22. So the extra 10 pc of code 83 would be $1.90 ea.
Maybe less damage packing it in boxes of 25 instead of 100.
Well of course it's silly to order a box of 100 is you only need 30. But if you know you will need 180, why not buy the 100 piece case for the discount, even if you only have time this week to maybe lay 10 or 20 pieces? You'll definitely use it all.
I bounce back and forth - I can't just work on benchwork for weeks, then just lay track for weeks, etc. I need to mix it up. So other than when I get down to the last bit and only need a few peices of track to finish up, I'd rather buy the biggest quantity that is less than what I need, than keep buying piece by piece and not having any on a day when I decide to lay track. ANd it is a significant price difference, getting those 20.25 peice boxes vs buying single sticks. And the 100 piece Atlas cases are cheaper still. If you need 100+ pieces for your layout.
I think I calculated the cutoff while building my last layout - as in, if I need 90, is it cheaper to buy 100 and have 10 leftovers, or is it cheaper to buy exactly the 90? Could calcualte it all again, but I think it's somewhere around 80 pieces actually, depending on the vendor. Cheaper to haev leftover, than to buy the lesser quantity. ANd if you buy 100 and only use 80, you have 20 sticks you can legitimately sell on eBay as brand new. Or something. But just hanging on to the extra, it's cheaper.
At current prices with Modeltrainstuff, it's 90 pieces - if you need 90, buy 25 and 5 piece packs to equal 90. But if you need 91 or more, buy the 100 pack and have a leftover few pieces. For Atlas Code 83.
I don't buy more than I think I'll need. Granted, I have a small layout, but it seems to me that if price is a big concern, I don't see where buying a box of 100 pieces helps to save money if you only need 70 pieces.
Maybe that's why Peco sells it in boxes of 25?
If the need doesn't work out exactly to the box count, I would buy just a bit less than what I think I need (but enough to complete the entire mainline and staging areas/major yards) then buy it by the piece to complete whatever spurs I can't with the big order.
- Douglas
Walthers has always been one of the higher priced train company. The flex track is silly expensive for what you get so I won't be buying any.
Because I'm in the way to make a big extention for my N scale layout I have made research to find a good way to win some money in the investment.
This need a lot of track around 350 lenght of flextrack.
My choice is ME code 55 in N scale.
The best price I have found is to order directly to ME.
I asked them to do an offer including shipping to Québec where I live.
I have done the same for my switch machines which are Hankscraft display motors sold by Switchmaster; I send an inquiries to Hankscraft for a batch of motors also shipped to Québec.
To the end, these prices where equal or really under the best offer I can find on the net or in a hobby shop.
When you need to make big order ask an offer directly to the manufacturer, some agree to sale to you directly because of the big order; others send you to a retailers.
But to the end the direct offer is very interesting in many aspect.
If you see a good store you can ask also an offer for a big order; I have often used this way to find good price.
Yes, it's sold by Walthers.
I'm sure they are setting the price based on their cost to design and manfacture and package it, plsu some reasonable profit, but their volume is a lot lower. Back in the day, Walthers was almost required - these days, apart from their own products, they aren't nearly as relevent in terms of the hobby needing a good centralized distributor. Some of the bigger companies like Atlas sell direct to dealers, so a dealer can get a price like Walthers would get, and then sell for less than another dealer who gets Atlas via Walthers and has to include Walthers markup in their pricing.
The place mentioned above has various track on sale, because they work through Walters. But their SALE price for a 100 piece case of Atlas flex is $120 more than the same case from the place in MD. If it was closer, and the higher price place was a local shop I could just walk into and get the product, I'd certainly thrown them a bone now and then to maintain a relationship. But this is a rater large difference. OK, that's what he has to charge to make a profit, well, the other guys aren't selling for a loss...
Wlathers may offer convenience, as in one stop shopping, or at leasat two - if the shop carries Athearn. But if they are not just exclusively trains, then they've probably been dealing with Horizon for years anyway. For a small shop, trying to manage realtionships with dozens of manufacturers may just not be possible, so they just get it all from Walthers, but the penalty is higher prices.
SeeYou190 BigDaddy The Walthers monthly flyer has new Walthers turnouts 20/24 and 24/28 code 83 curved, L&R #4,5,6,8,10 turnouts and a 5 pack of flex track at $49.98. Is there a feature I am missing in this track that makes it more expensive?. -Kevin
BigDaddy The Walthers monthly flyer has new Walthers turnouts 20/24 and 24/28 code 83 curved, L&R #4,5,6,8,10 turnouts and a 5 pack of flex track at $49.98.
Is there a feature I am missing in this track that makes it more expensive?.
Rich
Alton Junction
BigDaddyThe Walthers monthly flyer has new Walthers turnouts 20/24 and 24/28 code 83 curved, L&R #4,5,6,8,10 turnouts and a 5 pack of flex track at $49.98
Is there a feature I am missing in this track that makes it more expensive?
The Walthers monthly flyer has new Walthers turnouts 20/24 and 24/28 code 83 curved, L&R #4,5,6,8,10 turnouts and a 5 pack of flex track at $49.98
For less than 10 pieces of flex Walthers track, you can buy 25 pieces of Atlas from the mail order place in Maryland.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
And I don;t even consider my layout to be particualr huge, not compared to other basement size layouts, since I have a significant portion of the basement that ends up being the garage. It's the biggest layout I've built myself, but even my old bedroom size single track layout, I know I bought 10 piece boxes several times. Far less than 100 sticks, but definitely more than 10. Actually - since I still had the plan in 3rd PlanIt - about 43 sticks. It goes a lot faster than you think, once you start adding sidings and a yard to that main track.
And I haven't even calculated for my helix in the new plan yet, it's just drawn as a circle, not an actual helix with all the turns. Double tracked, it will probably take 50 sticks just for the helix. Just think about it - a simple straight run down a 20 foot wall is 7 sticks of flex. Double tracked, it's 14. For pefectly straight tracks, no sidings, no nice gentle curves for better appearance.
hon30critterNot to be contrary Kevin, but I agree with Randy. After what our club experienced when Atlas turnouts were hard to get, I am a firm believer in buying stuff in sufficient quantities to get the job finished.
I guess my needs will be far lower than most of us.
I don't even think I will need 50 pieces to complete the whole layout.