Hoping someone can point me in the right direction. My dad purchased a train set for my son (Lionel Pennsylvania Railroad Keystone Special), along with an expanision pack (Eastern freight expansion pack) and a Figure 8 add-on track pack (6-12030 with o36 curve). He built a 4x8 platform using 3/4" plywood and placed it on a pulley system to hoist overhead. So great in theory but too heavy for this mom to lift up and down. Grandpa lives in VT and we are in CA so I can't have him come over to help out on this one. I would love to use a hollow door as a platform, either to lift overhead or place under his bed. Wondering if it's possible to create a 3' x 6' layout with the items we have. Any help would be so appreciated!! Thank you!!
Darcie
Having limited space available, I built an HO scale suspended layout in my son's bedroom several years ago. Although I managed to design a hoist system that worked perfectly AND kept the layout level, both my son and I lost interest in it because it still took time to partially lower the layout, attach the removable legs (absolutely necessary if you want a stable layout), then lower the layout to sit on the floor. When finished with the layout, you then had to lift the layout off the floor, remove and store the legs, then raise the layout up to the ceiling. Also living in California, it was necessary to remove and store everything that might fall off the layout during an earthquake. This meant you also had to return these items to the layout when you wanted to use it. Even though the layout was small (6' by 6' square donut), it still took up a lot of space within the bedroom and the regular furniture always caused access issues when trying to work around the outside perimeter of the layout. The suspension cables got in the way a lot, too! Being that your son's layout is O gauge, he may not be all that into scenery and may not need the perimeter access I needed. I used an electric winch from Harbor Freight Tools to power the hoist system so anyone could operate it!
As far the layout size and what you can do with the track you have, you'll find far more information on the Toy Train Forum but I can tell you that a circle of O36 track will not fit on a 3' wide platform as the track will overhang the edges on both sides. Likewise, a figure 8 of O36 track will not fit in a 6' length. I would stick with the 4' by 8' platform and look into adding a power hoist system.
Hornblower
DarcieHe built a 4x8 platform using 3/4" plywood and placed it on a pulley system to hoist overhead. So great in theory but too heavy for this mom to lift up and down.
The problem is that Grandpa didn't make a counter balance. If you put an equal amount of weight on the opposite end of the cables which lifts the 4x8 then it will be easy to make go up and down. If you do some research you can find a system to build/install that will solve the problem.
Maybe you need a pulley with more wheels. A sheet of 3/4" plywood can weight 70 pounds and there is probably some sort of framing or legs attached.
A counterweight may be unweildy and unsightly and the installation of the pulley may not be adequate to support the additional weight.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Both of the two most recent replies offer great and relatively easy fixes. The counterweight should work, although placing it in a position to 'clear' the ascending and descending platform will present a bit of a challenge...possibly. More pulleys, probably, and more rope. But it can be done. On great advantage of this method is that, should a mistake be made and the rope is left to play out uncontrolled, the platform will fall much less quickly and do less damage when it hits 'bottom'.
Another easy suggestion is to simply double up on the reversals of rope travel, each of which gives a mechanical advantage. Pulleys with multiple channels for the rope do this. Means more pulling to get the device to rise and fall, and that means at least twice as much rope, unfortunately.
I will try to help. Get the hollow core door. Build the track plan on the door without fastening it down yet. My guess is you will have some slight overhang on the width part of the layout but be fine on the length. Go to your local home center and purchase enough 1x2 pine lumber (2 feet will be more than enough) and 1 8 foot long pine that is wide enough when placed along the door to hold the track. (From your post I imagine a 1x6 piece would be fine). Cut the short piece into three peices and glue them to the edge and bottom of the long piece so that you have one edge of the long piece being double thickness. That should be pretty close the thickness of the door (some shimming/sanding maybe required). Glue/screw that edge to the door and away you go. If I read and interpreted your post correctly, this should allow you to have a fairly light yet stable train table.
Old Fat Robert
Welcome to the forums from central Vermont.
Hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but.... You have indicated it is a Lionel product with 036 curved track. That will take over 6' to put in a full 180 degree curve, even too much for your 4x8 layout. I'm not familiar with the contents of the other packages, they may have 027 or 0 guage curves. which will both fit on a 4x8. My original was an 0 guage on a 4x7.
Simplest way to improve lift would be to use multi wheel pulleys to ease the lifting, though as mentioned, it takes much more rope.
If you could get two hollow core doors wider than 36" you could put them side by side, attach some boards on the underside to hold them together, thus have a larger surface.
If a 4' wide piece of plywood wil fit under the bed, put it on casters to make moving it easier. Use what you can of what you have and let him run it to see if he wants to continue expanding his layout.
Good luck,
Richard
Perhaps someone from a local hobby store or the nearest train club can visit your house to offer advice. Trying to diagnose the issue here is far more challenging. Reducing the stress of using a pulley system requires someone versed in this type of arrangmeent by visiting your hose and advising you or setting in person is a sound approach.
~Lee
Darcie.
.
Oh Boy... A gift that did not work out well. At least it was not a puppy.
A 4 by 8 is very big and will usually swallow a room because it needs to be an island in the center.
What is below the layout, a bed, pool table, desk, or something else?
Is the room it is in intended to also be used as a bedroom, office, play room, etc?
There are different answers to different situations.
Please fill us in.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Maybe talk to your dad about putting a geared forward and reverse ratchet crank on the pull rope. He will know what it is. It will take more cranks to get it up and down but it will be somewhat effortless
PS. Harbor Freight may have one. I would be surprised if they don't.
Darcie,
In 1951 when I was 9yrs. old, I built a 4x8 layout right on top of My bunk bed. My Sister and I used to share a bedroom when We were younger and used the bunkbed's. She got Her own room, but I kept th bunkbeds, removed the mattress from the top, took out the springs but kept the steel frame and just layed a 4x8 1/2'' sheet of plywood on top. I was able to get at three sides of it and had a ball. It was HO scale though, but not in anyones way. It was chest high and I had a two step stool to reach any far spots...........something to think about!
Good Luck! I'm too far away to help You...
Frank
I have offered this solution to many a parent of a train nut kid and it has been a good solution for them. Train on the bottom kid on top. Usually, they didn't even need to buy the lower mattress as it was extra anyway. Just put some plywood in its place.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
If you're looking to make it easier to lift the current setup, you either need to add a counterweight or increase your mechanical advantage. I'm guessing that it currently has a 1:1 pulley system, which requires you to lift the entire weight of the layout.
I'd suggest using something like these (appropriately sized for the load, of course), which will give you a 4:1 mechanical advantage:
With O-36 curves (36" centerline diamter), you'll need at the very least a 38" wide base. Having a base that is 42" or more wide would be a good idea. A quick browse through Home Depot reveals that they sell a 42"x84" hollow core door, albeit at a bit of an "ouch" price.
Now O gauge models are not exactly light, and hollow core doors are, as their name implies, hollow in the center. The likelihood of the panels sagging under the weight of a locomotive is remote, but fastening the track to the door anywhere except at the very edges may prove difficult as the nails typically used to secure the track will not have much material to hold on to.
Modeling the Pennsy and loving it!
The Lionel web site shows the track plan Darcie mentions, 6-12030, when added with the track that comes with the train set to form a figure 8, is 39.5" x 90.5"
http://www.lionel.com/products/fastrack-figure-8-add-on-track-pack-6-12030/
It would help, as Kevin mentions, to give more info on the room it's in.
Mike.
My You Tube
Finally, a grandparent gift worse than a set of drums!
Darcie, I've read the helpful advice of the dozen or so respondees. I assume there's no gaage, basement or spare room available. I'll give you the bottom line first: Measure the clearance under the bed and work from there. You'll need to factor in the thickness of the platform (a door or the plywood.) Add about an inch to 2 inches for track and switch machines (those gismos that operate the switches to change direction) Check the height of available 'dolly wheels'
If the clearance is close but will not clear, it's time for option 2: Will replacing the door with the plywood provide the needed clearance? Will replacing the 'dolly wheels' with casters used on the bottom of chairs help? (Casters are available in fairly large sizes.) You don't want a platform that will protrude from under the bed on any traffic side although that will provide a learning experience for words usually reserved for school yards. That hollow core door ain't no lightweight.
As a sidebar before we go to another option. Once your son has settled on a track plan the track should be secured to the platform. A quick way to lose interest in the hobby is to have to assemble the track every time your son wants to run the train. In fact I'd lay out the track on the board you have just to see if the entire project is practical before you spend more time and money. Here's another solution. Set up the track on a hard floor (carpet may also work as long as it's not a high pile carpet.)
Regarding the pulley option: Put everything in this paragraph in the 'trust me' category. I live in a townhouse with no basement and a wife with very strong decorating ideas. I bought a platform kit that mounts on the ceiling of my garage. There are four cables that support a 4'x4' platform in each corner. I attached a 4'x10' half inch plywood base topped with foam insulation board. The kit comes with its own crank - similar to an awning crank. It comes with an adaptor socket to attach a power drill. Lowering the platform is no problem; raising it is a little more difficult, hence my interest is getting some pwer assistance The platform locks in any desired position. No counterweights. no legs required, but it will sway if you brush up against it. Does it look good? Hey, it's in the garage. Would I want it inside my home? NO! Would I want my son sleeping below it? No way! (The neighborhood kids - all preschool, know not to walk under it, even if it is locked in place.) I certainly wouldn't want a counterweight dangling from the ceiling.
Sorry I see no quick solution. Is a move to Vermont in the cards?
Oops! Forgot Lionel uses diameter rather than radius when describing its curves, so you do need only about a 40" wide door. Not sure if you can get one that wide, but you could easily attach two smaller ones to get a decent size table that didn't weigh too much.
Sorry for the mis-information.
Another option would be to set up a circle of track under the chrismas tree for the season ( assuming you have room for that). If the son develops a real interest for trains, I would recommend keeping that set for the holidays and buying an HO scale set for year round operations. HO is half the scale of the Lionel you have, and is the most popular scale...
Simon
Everybody seems to have gotten
a bit of tunnel
vision on this. What about the murphy bed style layout? Fold away. There have been articles in various places about constructing one. A lot easier to handle, and less effort and work to set up. I do believe they lake something similar for kitchen tables so sloght changes and she is done.
or take the coffee table route
Wolfie
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space