gmpullman kasskaboose Some say that 4% inclines for diesel is too troublesome and unrealistic. The PRR ran the Madison (Indiana) grade possibly into the Conrail era. It was 5.89%! A pair of specially fitted SD-7s were used on the grade, 8588 and 8589. Equipped with special rail washers. Trains were limited to fifteen cars and the locomotive had to be on the down-hill side. Old history here: https://tinyurl.com/y9s5t2py Good Luck, Ed
kasskaboose Some say that 4% inclines for diesel is too troublesome and unrealistic.
The PRR ran the Madison (Indiana) grade possibly into the Conrail era. It was 5.89%!
A pair of specially fitted SD-7s were used on the grade, 8588 and 8589. Equipped with special rail washers. Trains were limited to fifteen cars and the locomotive had to be on the down-hill side.
Old history here:
https://tinyurl.com/y9s5t2py
Good Luck, Ed
Of course, they once sent one of those locos to the shop and the shop crew had no idea what all the extra brake gear was for so they never hooked it up. The first crew to ride that loco down had a rather scary surprise. It was a story in Trains or Classic Trains.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
maxman Why do you need a 4% incline in the first place?
Why do you need a 4% incline in the first place?
If you only have a 4x8 and want one track to go over another, you don't have much choice.
Personally I'd rather stick with grades under 3% but I prefer to run longer trains. If you plan to run shorter trains then you may be ok. Just like in real life, a 4% grade in HO will be somewhat restrictive, but in modeling we often have to make those kinds of limiting choices.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I'd suggest you run test trains to see if they'll behave as you want them to on the grade. I had a 4% on my layout. Going up grade was fine, but coming down caused problems. The cars would slack-and-bunch, slack-and-bunch, all the way down. (I believe the specific cars I was running may well have contributed to this as well.) I was running at low speeds. I decided to make that grade into a vehicle road, as the surrounding features allowed it. Looks great that way too.
Some locomotives also had issues with the weight of the train pushing on the gears and actually causing an unwanted eratic braking effect, also when coming down grade. Do enough testing at the speeds you'll be operating at, and with locomotives and train cars you expect to run on it to prove if will work before making it permanent. Dan
kasskabooseSome say that 4% inclines for diesel is too troublesome and unrealistic.
I would be more concerned about the length of the vertical transitions than the grade. There is a formula to determine the length of vertical easements. Here is a previous thread on the topic:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/266729.aspx
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I planned to do a 4% grade, then I found that the grade is compounded with curves which have increased drag (friction). My 4% grade with curves calculated out to 6.6%. I was using steam, and only my geared steam could make the climb and only one could pull 6 cars.
So my suggestion is to test it before you decide. I got an 8 foot 2x4 screwed down some track, hooked it to my power, and raised one end 6 1/2 inched for the test. Hopefully someone will post the formula for determining the calculated grade for any curves you have.
As a result of my testing I reduced my grade to 3%. You can spread your risers out to make a 3% grade if needed.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Some say that 4% inclines for diesel is too troublesome and unrealistic. Should I avoid the likely derailments, shorter consists and other issues by ripping up the one inch foam and putting it as background? The plan is to have the consists climb that incline and remain at that elevation for about 60" before droopping an inch.
Interestingly, I have seen plenty use 4% risers without issues. Someone here mentioned that diesel tends to do better in inclines than steam (I have the former). For grins, I put a diesel on the incline with a few cars and they didn't roll back or decouple. That gives me some hope that I can keep the current arrangement.
Did I waste all that time and money?