So my main layout was built many years ago and has 2 small yards, and several businesses but if I want to do some pure switching operations I suppose I could but I would like to build a small shelf layout with lots of switching operations. Something along the lines of JA's Time Saver.
Here is my question? How long and how wide should I consider making it? Should I start with track plans and let that be the deciding factor?
Gary
I built the shelf annex of my layout in my bedroom. It connects to other rooms via mouse hole tunnels. It runs along three walls and crosses a window. It is the maximum length that can fit in the room. The width varies from 16 inches down to 6 inches. The height is 61 inches. The room is full of furniture but the shelf is high enough that it doesn’t make a footprint. The widest parts are over the chest of drawers and the bedside tables. A narrower width, 12 inches, is over the 46 inch flat screen TV. The smallest width is over the bed. I designed it that way so that I can get the maximum amount of rail length without being in the way. When people see it they think of it as 3D art and I’ve only had good comments on it. I would suggest that you figure out the length and width of the shelves first and make the track plan fit on it. Remember that it doesn’t have to be any set width, it can vary as needed but the longer the run is the better. Of course the width of your shelves is up to you. I wouldn’t make them wider that 24 inches because of reach problems. I do have a step stool that I sometimes use while working on the layout because being up high is more convenient sometimes, but I never use it when I operate. I like the layout eye level because it looks more realistic like you’re standing in the middle of the street next to it instead of flying in a helicopter. Eye level also makes the distances seem farther.
Gary,Forget the time waster and step up to a good ISL.
Here is a example of a 1' x 12' ISL I built and used for four years.This was the original "Slate Creek Industrial Park".
The track in the top left hand corner is the engine track and hold track. I also left room for "off spot" cars.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I'd make it as big as your have room for.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Most find it to be problematic to reach beyond 30 inches in depth. Rerailing cars, swiching turnouts manually, even building scenery gets difficult past the average human comfortable reach of 30 inches. Even if you build scenery deeper than that, most modelers want to keep the tracks within that 30 inch limit.
The timesaver is not really a trackplan for a layout per se. Its more of a puzzle disguised as a model railroad trackplan. A switching puzzle. Most layouts work best, IMO, when they mimic the real thing as much as possible, with maybe a challenge worked in somewhere. Complexity for the sake of complexity tends to get tedious and then leads to frustration, IMO.
Here is an example of a timesaver. Not my thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mtAqlOhUoY
- Douglas
gdelmoroHere is my question? How long and how wide should I consider making it? Should I start with track plans and let that be the deciding factor?
I would suggest that track be 24" or less, scenery depth can be more depending on what's a comfortable reach for you when putting it in.
Length. Well that really depends on how you're planning to operate it. If you're going to walk along with the engine, then as long as you have space for. If you plan to sit in one place, then you want it short enough that you can see what you're doing at each end - probably 8-10 feet.
Paul
I learned my lesson on my current layout as far as depth is concerned. I would go from 18" - 24" depending on your height and ability to reach. I'm building another layout at our retirement house, and it will be 2 level with a helix point to point as I want do have indsutries to switch out, since there will be times I'm operating solo. Lower level will be 24" upper level will be 18". Height off the ground will be 40" for the lower level and 56" for the upper level. Since I'm 5'5", this will be fine for me and a step stool will always be around..
Good luck!
Neal
Ok maybe I didn't provide enough information. I'm not looking to build a layout complete with scenery and all that. I have my main layout that I will probably be working on and improving until the day I croke.
I just want to have some switching fun from time to time. I want the switching track plan to fit on a small enough piece of plywood so I can pick it up and store it out of the way when I'm not using it. Or maybe take it outside for photos if I ever do decide to do the scenery part.
It seems that the 24" width is what most agree is best for reach. Maybe 5? 6ft long? Would that provide enough space for the needed track work? Operations?
I'm not married to anything and open to all options the only criteria is it needs to be small enough to store away.
If any of you out there have built a small switching layout that you really like can you share the plan? Also anyone who has built or operated this kind of layout what aspects of any of them would you have to have? What would you avoid?
I know, a lot of questions but experience is the best teacher and just looking at track plans is probably not the best way to move forward.
gdelmoroIt seems that the 24" width is what most agree is best for reach. Maybe 5? 6ft long? Would that provide enough space for the needed track work? Operations?
As many already know I been building ISLs since the 60s and I will share the lessons I learned.
The micro ISLs leaves a lot to be desired like short engines and short cars.I highly recommend nothing less then 8' A 6 footer will work with #4 switches but,again that's not much room..
As far as scenery it will be industry related and there's no need for hills,creeks or rivers. A trailer drop lot,paved dock apron,weeds, some static grass,stacks of old pallets,dumpsters,security fences etc will be your scenery.
There is a lot of switching layouts on you tube I suggest watching some of those videos.
gdelmoroI just want to have some switching fun from time to time. I want the switching track plan to fit on a small enough piece of plywood so I can pick it up and store it out of the way when I'm not using it. Or maybe take it outside for photos if I ever do decide to do the scenery part. It seems that the 24" width is what most agree is best for reach. Maybe 5? 6ft long? Would that provide enough space for the needed track work? Operations?
My first comment is that I would think it would be impracticable to have something on a piece of plywood that you could pick up and move around at will. This is because you are dealing with some weight, need legs, stuff will fall off if not removed, and so forth.
HOWEVER, DO I HAVE A LAYOUT FOR YOU!! Bob Smaus had a nice layout that would fit your criteria regarding length, width, switching fun, and portability. It was described in the December 1990, and January/February/March 1991 issues of MR. It was called the Port of Los Angeles project. The article included information on how to construct the "benchwork", which was basically a small narrow table with wheels on one end so that it could be moved around easily, including being taken outside for photography. Unfortunately I don't see a copy of the plan in the MR layouts library.
But I confess that I always go back to that series of articles when I need some inspiration (most of the time).
Here is the track plan of Bob Smaus´s layout:
I think it´s rather a diorama than a layout. You will have to lengthen the track to be able to operate it.
Sir MadogI think it´s rather a diorama than a layout. You will have to lengthen the track to be able to operate it.
IMHO a complete redesign is in order..I've said that since the time the plan was publish.
That's what drop-down staging tracks are for.
maxman Sir Madog I think it´s rather a diorama than a layout. You will have to lengthen the track to be able to operate it. That's what drop-down staging tracks are for.
Sir Madog I think it´s rather a diorama than a layout. You will have to lengthen the track to be able to operate it.
Even then its unoperatable..There's not much room to work because of those switchbacks with industries that's why I always said a complete redesign is in order.
Come to think of it that design may be the best lesson on how not to design a switching layout.
I was intrigued by the look of this layout, which really oozed a lot of port atmosphere (down to the seagull) and made plans to adapt it to the space I have, but finally dropped the idea for exactly the same reason Brakie mentioned!
To the OP - check Lance Mindheim´s web page! There should be plenty of inspiration in it for you!
Go for a 40x60!
My favorite ISL has always been John Pryke's Union Freight Railroad presented in the September 2000 through December 2000 MR. I think he really captured the feel of an urban industrial district.
Ray
Thanks for all the replies! I check out the layouts mentioned.
What do you guys think of these?
http://www.amherstrail.org/ABEL/Downloads/Shelf-Layouts.pdf
Now that I know more about what you are looking for I would suggest making the layout on a hollow door and having a pair of saw horses to set it on. Or perhaps a 2x8 piece of plywood.
BRAKIE maxman Sir Madog I think it´s rather a diorama than a layout. You will have to lengthen the track to be able to operate it. That's what drop-down staging tracks are for. Even then its unoperatable..There's not much room to work because of those switchbacks with industries that's why I always said a complete redesign is in order. Come to think of it that design may be the best lesson on how not to design a switching layout.
It is explicitly a module, built to a club's module specs. I'm not sure it was intended to be switched beyond a small switcher shuffling a car or two around or having longer strings pre-spotted for visual interest. I know I've seen that at modular set-ups before (including the club I'm in).
NittanyLionIt is explicitly a module, built to a club's module specs. I'm not sure it was intended to be switched beyond a small switcher shuffling a car or two around or having longer strings pre-spotted for visual interest. I know I've seen that at modular set-ups before (including the club I'm in).
Even at that its unoperatable because every one of those tail track industriess would be blue flagged..
The majority of the modular layouts I've seen the industries was for show and not actually used and trains ran around the layout in endless circles.
There's no need to play here a track,there a track ,everywhere a track, track in designing a ISL or a industrial modular. That's why that plan is a good lesson on how not to plan a ISL or industrial modular..
BRAKIE NittanyLion It is explicitly a module, built to a club's module specs. I'm not sure it was intended to be switched beyond a small switcher shuffling a car or two around or having longer strings pre-spotted for visual interest. I know I've seen that at modular set-ups before (including the club I'm in). Even at that its unoperatable because every one of those tail track industriess would be blue flagged.. The majority of the modular layouts I've seen the industries was for show and not actually used and trains ran around the layout in endless circles. There's no need to play here a track,there a track ,everywhere a track, track in designing a ISL or a industrial modular. That's why that plan is a good lesson on how not to plan a ISL or industrial modular..
NittanyLion It is explicitly a module, built to a club's module specs. I'm not sure it was intended to be switched beyond a small switcher shuffling a car or two around or having longer strings pre-spotted for visual interest. I know I've seen that at modular set-ups before (including the club I'm in).
That's what I'm saying, though: it was never intended to be actually operational. Yeah, you can shuffle a *single* boxcar around, but that's just for show. Its just for capturing a vibe.
The seemingly random tracks everywhere thing does give me the feel of a dense, busy port. I find myself in Savannah and Baltimore with some frequency and holy cow are those places different than the sprawling, yet strikingly linear, industrial sites I'm familiar with from Western PA and Eastern OH. I swear the Port of Savannah has more diamonds than the whole state of Pennsylvania.
NittanyLionI swear the Port of Savannah has more diamonds than the whole state of Pennsylvania.
I fully agree..There is a way to copy such a port without playing the everywhere a track game and still get the feel of a dense busy port..
When I get back from the hobby shop I'll see if I can find that port layout..I wish I booked marked it but,I didn't.
gdelmoro What do you guys think of these? http://www.amherstrail.org/ABEL/Downloads/Shelf-Layouts.pdf
I was really impressed with many of those layouts. Our British friends are very creative in working with limited space.
Ok settled on a 24” x 8’ switching layout.
Those of you with a small switching layout like this - a couple questions;
Switches? #4, 5? PECO, atlas, other? Tortoise, atlas, Manual?
DCC or DC?
code 100, 83, other?
Gary,My personal preference is Peco medium switches and Micro-Engineering flex track.
Both DCC and DC will equally work however,if you plan on using DCC or DCC/Sound then DCC is the better choice since you can set CVs to get peak locomotive,light and sound performance.
A 2 x 8 switching layout will be compact. I think Peco #5 code 83 would be a nice compromise between compactness and appearance/operation issues. Atlas #4's would work well too since they are closer to a 4.5, according to many.
I'll be building a N-scale switching layout along two walls of a single car garage in a retirement community into which we'll be moving soon. It'll be in a "L" configuration with the long side of the "L" being approximately 18' and the short leg of the "L" being approximately 8'. The maximum width of the bench work will be 24" and it's height off the floor will be 48-50". I think you'll find that the 24" width will be the maximum for easy reach into the layout for construction and later operation. I don't think the height should be more than 50" for the same reason. On my old layout, I had set the height at 56" off the floor and found that, even at my height of 6'4", I still had to use 10" high work steps for construction and operation which can be a real pain.
Hope this helps,
Bob
gdelmoroSwitches? #4, 5? PECO, atlas, other? Tortoise, atlas, Manual?
Use what fits, and works for you. Which code rail you choose will drive the brand selection, or brand selection will drive code. What is important to you?
What types of industries are you planning? Types of rolling stock. This will guide your track geometry.
gdelmoroDCC or DC?
What does your main layout have? Are you planning on using locomotives from that layout?
gdelmorocode 100, 83, other?
Most equipment runs on code 83. Code 100 is generally less expensive. Code 70 would make more sense for older industrial trackage.. but has fewer turnout choices.